you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]yellow_algebra_31 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I never used many of these companies, and I've stopped using others since. These will be the hardest for me:

  • I can move my bank account to a local bank. That's probably the highest impact thing I can do.
  • Mastercard: fuck. How tf am I supposed to engage in commerce? Visa and mastercard? Do I just send checks by mail now?
  • I could move my email account to Protonmail (or a better alternative that doesn't give in to DDOSers). Google docs I'll need an alternative to. I guess I can just keep that stuff locally, I don't really use it for anything that really needs sharing. Maybe I already use alternative browsers but I'm not sure what's best. searx? duckduckgo? startpage? qwant? I'll need to download my email data. Youtube will be hard but I guess I gotta do it.
  • Twitter will be hard, I follow people there. Maybe I can learn how to make a tweet mirroring bot to the fediverse. No, that's probably not realistic. Fuck. Those tweets get me through the day and provide my news. This one I will need help with, comments appreciated.
  • Guess I gotta stop visiting reddit subs for good.
  • There are a lot of payment processor and fund transfer stuff on that list. We need some legit options to switch to.
  • Mozilla, yikes. Guess it's time to ditch firefox? Suggestions?
  • Microsoft?! Time to do that switch to Linux I've been putting off.
  • No more gardening supplies from Lowe's... or Home Depot...
  • No logitech purchases, I potentially needed some new hardware...
  • Intel?! and AMD? How tf am I supposed to do computing? I think we need a list of computer hardware and software suppliers that are legit.
  • FexEx?! Ebay?! Alternatives please?
  • Can commit to not using Discord again.
  • CVS, yikes.
  • Creative Commons?!
  • Burt's Bees? :'( I liked their stuff, but fortunately I already found another lip balm maker. This is something your local small business artisinal beauty products maker can do, btw.
  • I think I gotta get a new cell provider.
  • Amazon :(

We need a full legit whole supply line, guys. This is absurd. Don't ever fucking sell out ever under any fucking circumstance every fucking again, you guys here me? No letting somebody "buy" your company. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book and they've been doing it since the invention of agriculture.

This is a longer list than I thought it would be. I think I'll start with the banks, that seems like the highest-impact. Started doing this several years back but never made the transfer, ashamed now that I didn't. Time to go look up all that old info the Occupy people put together about banking.

Any helpful info about alternatives greatly appreciated.

[–]Aureus[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you for going over these one-by-one.

My take is that there's different levels. Some companies are worse offenders than others. Some just made a virtue-signalling tweet, while others donated millions to shady organizations. Beyond this list, we need to draft a sort of hierarchy of companies, from the biggest offenders (most important to boycott) to the smallest offenders (least important to boycott).

Btw: If a service is important to your daily life, you don't have to boycott it. Your wellbeing, and the wellbeing of your family and extended community come first.

A decent rule of thumb is it's okay to use a service as long as you get more value out of it than it gets from you.

Twitter will be hard, I follow people there.

I would actually discourage people from boycotting sites like YouTube or Twitter if they can spread their message using it. One crafty technique would be to keep using YouTube/Twitter for videos and comments, but boycott their advertisers. Every time you use YouTube, Reddit, or Twitter, you are consuming their resources... if you're blocking their ads, you're actually doing more than a boycott would. Of course don't let online platforms take up too much of your time though.

Maybe I already use alternative browsers but I'm not sure what's best. searx? duckduckgo?

I've heard DuckDuckGo is good. At least don't use Google as a default search engine - that's an easy switch to make.

There are a lot of payment processor and fund transfer stuff on that list. We need some legit options to switch to.

While you should keep using services important to your daily life in the short-term, this is a good point. In the long-term we need to build alternatives to these.

Mozilla, yikes. Guess it's time to ditch firefox? Suggestions?

Brave is good. However, I'm not sure Mozilla works the same way as other products and services, since you don't pay for it. I would absolutely make sure to turn off all monitoring in the settings, and don't donate to the Mozilla Foundation.

There's also Waterfox, a fork of Firefox, but I've had issues using that. We need a tech team, lol.

Microsoft?! Time to do that switch to Linux I've been putting off.

I use an older version of Windows. IMO the new versions are just annoying to use, and there's supposedly a lot of tracking software on them anyway. But it would be good to start thinking about Linux distros.

No letting somebody "buy" your company. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book and they've been doing it since the invention of agriculture.

Absolutely. You see this with almost every company... the privately-owned ones are usually the most decent, especially if they're still run by their founders. The publicly-owned ones are awful.

[–]flugegeheimen 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

However, I'm not sure Mozilla works the same way as other products and services, since you don't pay for it.

The majority of Mozilla Corporation revenue is generated from global browser search partnerships, basically Google, Microsoft etc pay them to use a corresponding search as a default search provider in browser. When Firefox's usage will drop to 0%, I imagine Mozilla will be financially dead for good. So, it's a good idea to not touch Firefox.

[–]yellow_algebra_31 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

that does not bode well for open source browsers, is there an alternative that does not have this problem?

[–]danuker 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This guy looked at everything browsers send and receive:

https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/browsers.html

[–]Aureus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Didn't know that, thanks!

[–]FlippyKing 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Wow, that is a staggering list. I guess it is just obvious that the tech companies are owned and run by VERY-like-minded people, o say the least.

Local products, and as you say local smaller banks and credit unions, are important. Even if their "politics" don't line up, what is more important is that local communities build themselves up as best they can so these behemoths have less power over us. So many communities have been neglected and their economies so devastated, that they can't repair their own water infrastructure.

I guess it helps to know the monetary system is just completely fake anyway. Anything we can do to get out of using the fake money and dealing in real things is better. Ultimately, the money is a way to manipulate how we get what we need. We need shelter, food, clean water, clothing, and community. If money were real, the people who just manipulate it would never make more than a farmer.

I think real solutions, as in the kind that might free us from being dependent and influenced by these douchey corporations, will ultimately come via local organizing: community by community, addressing specific needs where they are, and untangling ourselves from the things that sap our power away from us and towards them. Yes, that's all just a bunch of empty rhetoric.

[–]Aureus[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Local products, and as you say local smaller banks and credit unions, are important. Even if their "politics" don't line up, what is more important is that local communities build themselves up as best they can so these behemoths have less power over us.

Totally agree.

Ultimately, the money is a way to manipulate how we get what we need. We need shelter, food, clean water, clothing, and community.

I'm thinking barter, gift economies, trading in precious metals, and crypto could become more prominent in the future. It's also important to think of the basics and start from there.

I think real solutions, as in the kind that might free us from being dependent and influenced by these douchey corporations, will ultimately come via local organizing: community by community, addressing specific needs where they are, and untangling ourselves from the things that sap our power away from us and towards them.

You are right on. Local organizing is the way, and unfortunately it's been sorely neglected.

[–]FlippyKing 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We took local for granted for too long, just as we took a lot of things for granted. Another option is postal banking. People used to be able to cash checks and have accounts at the post office. It was an alternative to banks and served a lot of people. It ended un Reagan.

One solution is like no solution, having a lot of options in everything is probably important. It will make us more resilient-- which is like a key word here. There is, or was, a small "resilient communities" movement that looked at natural disasters and organized or encouraged communities to be prepared and ready for when they had to rely on themselves. It's not a big stretch to just say "we should rely on ourselves as much as possible"

[–]yellow_algebra_31 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

kindof thinking out loud here

We need shelter, food, clean water, clothing, and community.

Yes I have been thinking about this. I have felt for a long time like I don't really understand "money" the way I understand needing food or something. I was thinking maybe listing these sorts of real things, maybe in order of necessity, is a way to start building an infrastructure. Idk. Maybe not quite the right way to think of it. But something more material than "money". Though I think we should still be supporting the USD, we rely on the US for protection and it would be nice to pay down the debt one day.

  • security / not getting attacked / killed
  • shelter
  • water
  • sanitation
  • food

Community. Yeah. That's a very important one.

[–]Aureus[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I totally agree. The best way to start building an infrastructure is to focus on basic needs. If you're part of a community that can provide its own water, shelter, food, sanitation, and clothing, everything else is just convenience.

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs would help here

[–]FlippyKing 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Money's been mystified by people who want us not thinking about it, much like law has. If we take a step back and just look at what communities need, and what they have, problems look very different and the idea that coal miners should learn to code can be applied to people who sit atop piles of money like they were dragons.

Sanitation is one I always leave out, thanks for adding it. Yes, there are essential services like that that are just as critical as food.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

the problem with credit unions is that they have terrible I.T. security and privacy problems. They don't have as much money as the big banks to spend on cyber security. I used to work at one and it was a nightmare and so easy to steal people's personal information. It is mostly old people who use credit unions and that's they are are targeted in scams online. I think Bitcoin will solve this in the future. Im using Bitcoin more and more often. Leaving traditional banking.

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree about the problem with credit unions and IT security. I wonder about how much investment one must put into such security before you get a real and effective protective result. I think it's an area where a lot of money is wasted on fools and bad services.

I'm just anti-currency at this point. I don't see how bit coin or any currency can solve problems caused by currency, those who issue currencies, those who manipulate them, and those who rig the the system so bankers "growing" a social construct make more than farmers growing food.

The problem I see, and I probably say this above, is that essential things our species had a very easy time with-- food and shelter-- are now tied to and made difficult by currency. How many generations of humans have had to secure shelter either via a 30 year mortgage or a 2 1/2 month security deposit, a credit check, a bank statement, proof of ID, the legal contract of a lease, and first and last month up front? Same with food. We live successfully on almost every acre of land on the earth. Problems with survival certainly exist in some areas. Inuit people dealt with growing too old to be of use to society and being a burden on loved ones and a drain on limited resources by just walking off into the wilderness to die. But, the fact that they lived long enough to become burdens shows there were successful in ways that should make us question ridiculously low life spans in segments of civilized society now and more so historically.

In the US, fish stock has been depleted and I blame currency. hear me out. In NYC, large farms like what was on Delancey St are gone. They do not grow their own food. They were replaced by factories and sweat shops, but now those are gone and Wall St grows "money", the media industry distribute lies for money, and the rest of the population mostly support those industries either through education or entertainment or food and services. How did such a large population in a region just stop producing their own food? By burdening the food production capacity of other regions and other populations, by exchanging food for currency. But food is real and currency is a social construct. Gardeners and farmers often have to experiment to find the best practices for the specific bit of land they are on. If the experiment fails, they produce less. No one bails them out, instead it is something taken advantage of as farm bankruptcies weaken farmers and enable the investor classes to buy up the land. Also and counter-intuitively, governments have paid corn farmers to destroy corn to keep prices up, and this kind of thing still happens as recently Vermont paid farmers to destroy milk to keep the prices up.

Why are prices kept up by limiting supply? Excess could feed people, or stored for the future. It's done to make the flow of currency balanced in some way, but also to keep the food out of the mouths of the poor and to keep fed the mouths of the idle who produce only social constructs.

People who make nothing but money also dream up ways of making new money, but if those ideas are bad they've also dreamed up ideas to protect themselves from from the kinds of catastrophes farmers face with their efforts fail. Marx spells this out better than I, but essentially politics is an arena reserved for those with the free time and money to participate. The overworked and underpaid off far away from centers of power are unable to influence the actions of government in the same way as those who manipulate social constructs.

The only solution I see is to disentangle the necessities for life from the constraints of currency, and to treat farmers or health care workers or the building trades, as something separate from lower forms of life like politicians or bankers or movie stars. That is not to say these lower forms of life should not be rich or famous, but those who provide for our material needs need a level of security that just is not provided for in a society run by people who deal mostly in social constructs.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The point of Bitcoin is that it's decentralized and controlled by no one. You dont need a third party. I can keep my Bitcoins offline and I become my own bank.

Food and shelter is not made difficult by money. Its made difficult by the people who control and print the money. The "Bankers"

You take away the ability for them to print, lend and control money and then you have a strong currency which can easily buy you food and shelter.

The bankers have always been the root of the problem. Farmers are poor because they bankers force them to borrow millions of dollars and they are always in debt. Generations of families who only know a life of "borrowing money" is exactly what the bankers wanted.

This has been going on for decades maybe 80 years. You blame money because you stop at that. Keep investigating how money works and where does it come from and you will find out the truth. Most people dont investigate further past currency.

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(I apologize for the length here. It is a mix of questions and fleshing out of my ideas, and pointing out some flaws in them)

How do you keep your bitcoins off line, and then how do you use them offline? (I'm really asking. I have none.) Is this a solution that can be used practically by people who now use the central-bank issued currency of their state's choosing? (maybe an unfair question, but I can't think of a better way to ask it).

With regard to the question if food and shelter are not made more difficult by money but by those who control it: I refer back to my point about how many generations of us have lived in shelters without needing security deposits or mortgages. Currency does not exist with out people who control and print it, that must include something exactly analogous to control and printing applicable to bitcoin.

We freely made shelter as we spread across the planet but now depend on currency to purchase it. Bitcoin will not change that, bankers or not. Shelter has been made scarce by a variety of factors (actually talked about by Colin Ward in Anarchy in Action). In the US there are more vacant homes than homeless people, so the scarcity is artificial. The fear of being homeless is a tool capitalism uses to make labor less willing to stand up for itself. I have to admit that my desire to eliminate currency does not address that either though. Making shelter a right removing it from the artificial scarcity, might be the only way.

I agree with you that the problem is the bankers (that may be overly broad. Maybe the banking system is more accurate?). You state the problem very clearly-- the problems farmers face etc, excellently stated-- and I agree most of that. Banker’s power comes from our respect for their currency, which is respect that we have no real choice in the matter.

Bitcoin may be a better method of doing currency, it just seem that anything involving currency places extra steps between us and our needs and transactions. Picture any transaction, minus the money. What changes? The totals in bank accounts, really that’s it.

You can not use bit coin everywhere, you can't really use any currency everywhere. But we must use currency virtually everywhere. I think the potential for problems grow as the range and universality of the currency grows. How can people be assured that similar gamings of the system that bankers now use will not be found by those who issue and manage bitcoin or any other replacement for what we use now? Perhaps more importantly, now can any currency displace the current system while that system not only crushes competition but can be used to make people homeless and ruin whole countries economies, the way Soros did to Portugal and other countries?

I have to say that it’s been more than 80 years, and my ideas in these comments do not address the problem either. Lords and Kings sent soldiers and tax collectors to take the produce of the poor. I can’t say the plight of the peasant or serf was due to currency any more than anyone can blame central banks. For it. I guess authority is the problem, as so many anarchist writers have pointed out.

Well after admitting flaws in my ideas, here are my reasons for not really backing away from my central issue with currency. I chose blame money and stop there, because I see that as the most fundamental way to strike at those who have power undeservedly. Bitcoin is no end-around to the Federal Reserve. I think the ultimate problem is that our natural resources are commodified in terms of a social construct. Being hungry or shivering in the cold is not solved by physical means, but by adding extra steps between those physical means via currency. "Homeless? GET A JOB" should be replaced with Homeless? Build a Shelter while we integrate you into the tasks we do to provide for ourselves as a community, and I say it that way because we fail as individuals and are a social species that live in communities.

[–]NoNewAbnormal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Twitter will be hard, I follow people there. Maybe I can learn how to make a tweet mirroring bot to the fediverse. No, that's probably not realistic. Fuck. Those tweets get me through the day and provide my news. This one I will need help with, comments appreciated.

This is a good idea, and something I've thought about a bit. I'm not a developer by any stretch of the imagination, but I am interested in learning and I know there is already a Python twitter scraper out there. Someone could definitely build something that would let you follow Twitter users without actually registering or participating on Twitter, although it wouldn't let you comment or anything like that.

There is already something of the sort for YouTube called FreeTube. Great project, lets you view YouTube through an open source desktop app, manage subscriptions locally, download videos, etc. I don't know if I'll ever be at the level to be able to create such a thing but having something like that to track the major social media platforms in the most anonymous/privacy-respecting fashion feasibly possible would be neat. A social aggregator of sorts, I suppose.