all 16 comments

[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

This is fake news propaganda.

Here's the link from the image

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16116-document-05-memorandum-conversation-between

It's multiple pages and here's the quote in context. The two are discussing how or whether east and west germany could reunite. Emphasis mine.

All our allies and East Europeans we have spoken to have told us that they want us to maintain a presence in Europe. I am not sure whether you favor that or not. But let me say that if our allies want us to go, we will be gone in a minute. Indeed, if they want us to leave we'll go and I can assure you that the sentiment of the American people is such that they will want us to leave immediately. The mechanism by which we have a US military presence in Europe is NATO. If you abolish NATO, there will be no more US presence.

We understand the need for assurances to the countries in the East. If we maintain a presence in a Germany that is a part of NATO, there would be no extension of NATO's jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east.

I don't think any rational person would come away from that with an understanding that America had just made a promise that NATO would never expand eastwards, for example, Eduard Shervardnadze whose name is on your screenshot underneath Gorbachev.

https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-enlarge-nato/

“I was in those meetings, and Gorbachev has [also] said there was no promise not to enlarge NATO,” Zoellick recalls. Soviet Foreign Minister, Eduard Shevardnadze, later president of Georgia, concurred, he says. Nor does the treaty on Germany’s unification include a limit on NATO enlargement. Those facts have undermined one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s justifications for invading Ukraine — that the United States had agreed that former Warsaw Pact nations would never become part of the North Atlantic security alliance.

Or Gorbachev himself

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

This is a clumsy and shitty attempt at pro putinist fascist propaganda.

The reason it's bad propaganda is because, in order to believe this, you must also believe that east european nations have no sovereign decision making agency and must follow the russia. If a person doesn't already believe that eastern europe must obey the russia, then they will not be convinced by this shitty propaganda which holds that the russia must be consulted on who is allowed to join NATO.

It's a bad faith, out of context edit that exploits your absolute lack of curiosity about what a "pagina 6" is and what was really talked about. The russian participants have disavowed your interpretation of this conversation. Where was that context in your single shitty image macro? When were you going to mention that your interpretation of four lines of this long conversation is totally disavowed by the russian participants?

[–]JewsAreOfColor 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It’s the truth, and you know it, you racist, fucking cracker. All anti-Russian propaganda is hate speech by the West to manufactured consent for terrorism.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You have left me twenty five replies in the last two days. Is everything okay?

[–]JewsAreOfColor 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Shut the fuck up you racist fucking cracker and stop posting imperialist terrorist propaganda to justify your racist cracker wars for oil. Go to the fucking uKKKraine since you worship the literal Neo-Nazis who run it.

Oh, and there was no Holodomor. That’s just another fascist lie those dirty fucking stinking uKKKraniaNAZI terrorist scum made up to justify killing Jews, Gays, and RUSSIANS.

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Saidit.net's main purpose seems to be Russian propaganda. Is it not? Who is the site's founder? Is there a Reddit clone that isn't just Russian propaganda?

I hate Reddit being run by the Chinese.

[–]UncleWillard56 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Why is NATO? Their whole mandate was to stop the Soviet Union. Mission accomplished.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

On 24th Feb 2022, the russia chose to show you exactly why NATO is still relevant

[–]UncleWillard56 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

And NATO expansion had nothing to do with that?

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh, so you are aware of new nations joining NATO. Didn't you earlier say that you thought the NATO mandate was over after the soviets?

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

14 since 1991 so almost doubling since the USSR fell, which was NATO's goal; deter expansion. I'd say that since there is no USSR, mission accomplished. I'm not defending Putin's actions, even on the most basic, strategic level both the Crimean occupation and Ukrainian Invasion were stupid, not to mention the obvious, a human rights tragedy. But NATO gave him the ammo to do it. Would the US calmly sit by if Russia formed a treaty organization and encouraged Central America, Caribbean nations, and Canada to join?

"1949: The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is founded to deter Soviet expansion and a revival of European militarism."

(https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-world-war-ii-sweden-finland-240d97572cc783b2c7ff6e7122dd72d2)

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You cannot both acknowledge that fourteen (plus) countries have wanted to join a body while also insisting the body is useless and has no purpose. Okay so explain why fourteen nations wanted to join a useless organisation which has no remaining mandate?

Could it possibly be that fourteen national governments are better advised and educated on this matter than you are? Preposterous I know! Because that would make you wrong about the "no mandate" topic and yet you feel so right!! The fourteen (plus) democratically elected and sovereign-wealth funded decision making apparatus must be wrong!

NATO is useless because the ruzzia doesn't forcibly expand anymore - except for 1999, 2008, 2014 and 2022 which are times when it forcibly expanded. But it only did so because NATO, a useless pointless body with an expired mandate to protect against ruzzian expansion (which doesn't happen) accepted fourteen new members who were worried about ruzzian expansion.

Seriously how do you hold all this shit in your head? Isn't the path of least cognitive resistance: the ruzzia is still forcibly expanding and so the fourteen nations were sensible to protect themselves?

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh fuck you. I can have opinions without them being written in stone. I'm not picking a side just because some dumbass on the internet disagrees with me. I'm not excusing Russia or on their side, I'm simply stating that they're two sides and everything is not cut and dry. NATO has an agenda and the countries that joined it since 1991 are picking a side. THAT has definitely had an impact on Russia, even if that was only to feed Putin's paranoia. Get off your high horse, you're no expert.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is what YOU wrote

Why is NATO? Their whole mandate was to stop the Soviet Union. Mission accomplished

How can you claim not to have any side yet casually regurgitate ruzzian propaganda? You also wrote

And NATO expansion had nothing to do with that?

These are Z talking points are neither are true. You claim you don't pick a side - but you don't object to just casually sounding off a number of their false talking points.

It's false that NATO has no mandate and it's false that russia is allowed to dictate it's neighbors' international ties. They are a regularly routinely belligerent nation.

Today they might say NATO expansion is the cause of their belligerence but tomorrow it will be about

  • vanquishing gay pedos

  • ending the fake idea of ukraine

  • defending against an attack by the collective west

  • shutting down biolabs

And even more nonsense which they will insist is the only sole true answer.

NATO is not the cause of their belligerence and you're their useful idiot to repeat that. Neither are the black magic cyborgs.

The only cause for their belligerence is that russia's destiny is to rule the world.

So don't tell me fuck me when you're in here shilling for a fascist genocidal dictator. Fuck you for that

[–]JewsAreOfColor 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

NATO is the Ku Klux Klan in nicer suits. It is a terrorist organization that Russia, as a brave, strong, proud, and sovereign Asian nation, has every right to use force against every member of. We took the wrong side in the Cold War. We should’ve helped Stalin eliminate “Europe” as a separate continent altogether as payback for the kkkrauts’ betrayal of the Molotov Ribbentrop pact. Putin will finish what Stalin started. Europe“ is nothing more than an illegal occupation of western Asia. Russia will liberate it by every means necessary. Even if we have to reopen the Soviet gulags and national socialist death camps to punish the race that built them for building them.

[–]aaarrgh 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the west is as reliable as the weather

[–]Alphix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"If"... Ahem.