Which subseddits feel like they have meaningful debate?

submitted by [deleted] from self.AskSaidIt

By this, I mean the following conditions are met:

  • debate occurs (its the norm to see debate)

  • it follows typical norms of collegiality (no insults, serious discussion)

  • it covers the entire spectrum of belief (ie people of different philosophes engaging each other)

Just curious, I wouldn't mind seeing if I could hold in there. cheers

all 42 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

As a general rule, none of them. Your second condition is going to be a major problem here. Now, there are users on this site of varying spectrums of ideology that are quite capable of debating seriously and civilly with you, but that is not the norm here. Personal attacks and name calling because you expressed the 'wrong' beliefs is as much of a thing here as Reddit, the only difference is you won't get banned. Youll figure out pretty quick which people are worth debating and which are not.

As far as 'subsaidits' go, there isn't much distinction. The vast majority of the users here are just using the whole site like one big sub, since there are fewer users here than most Reddit subs. s/DebateAltRight, s/RealIncels, and s/TumblrInAction, are the only subs with their own userbase that I can think of at the moment, though the same things I said about the rest of the site apply here, perhaps moreso as these are very ideologically based subs, so less diversity in beliefs, and less collegiality towards those who are not in the in-group than the rest of the site

Anyways, if you want to debate you'll find plenty of people willing to argue with you here, just not everyone is going to be worth responding to. I on the other hand, am more than happy to have a good faith debate on a wide range of topics, so feel free to engage me anytime if you'd like to discuss nuanced issues with someone who isn't gonna default to calling you names

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

^ Good response. Good brain. Good grasp. But often shitposts.

[–]niggerjewfaggot 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Yup

Or /s/politics & /r/politics

*anyway

[–]pattis 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

There is absolutely no freedom of speech in the reddit politics sub.

God forbid you would say something anti-transgender, you'll get shitcanned so quick

[–]niggerjewfaggot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Perhaps you can avoid thinking about genitals long enough to have a debate?

[–]pattis 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Our current political climate is that the transgender situation happens to be Prime Time news.

Second issue is that if you really don't like what I say feel free to hit your block button and move on with your life

[–]niggerjewfaggot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Perhaps you can avoid thinking about genitals long enough to have a debate?

[–]pattis 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not an expert on debate procedures but I think that when you start dictating what I'm able to think about I think that's where the debating stops and the dictating begins.

Your move

[–]niggerjewfaggot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Perhaps you can avoid thinking about genitals long enough to have a debate?

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]niggerjewfaggot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Perhaps you cannot avoid thinking about genitals long enough to have a debate?

    [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Has anyone even had a rational debate with authoritarian liar shill timesuck socks?

    Let's debate about why you love love love authority so much. Why?

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    Did Jason just compliment you?

    What world is this?

    [–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

    I've always liked everything about Phooey, except excessive shitposts.
    He complains and people, like you, misinterpret and overreact and read into it shit that was never said.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    I thought of you when I posted this

    [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Thanks?

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]ID10T 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      That is categorically false. I will gladly engage you in a battle of wits without debasing myself by calling you a fucking retard.

      [–]HugodeCrevellier 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

      Most of them?

      I've recently had a decent, and civil, debate in s/politics for example.

      You simply focus on interesting posts and comments.

      You don't have to reply to stupid or disingenuous crap.

      Voilà!

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

      I've recently had a decent, and civil, debate in s/politics for example.

      Now that's something we'd never see on that other site, r/politics is a left wing cult (and I consider myself fairly progressive) but if you share the wrong opinion you'll be pilloried, tarred and feathered, and run out of town on a rail.

      [–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      Many here on SaidIt are old-progressive (not woke), old-left (not FarLeft or DemLeft or Left), lean left, or are centrist (including AnCap, anarchists, voluntaryists). (Left and Right are being redefined so I use "old" to indicate which definitions I use.) Naturally to many dogmatic zealots, like authoritarian liar shill /u/socks and his many aliases), everyone who's not AOC is Alt-Right.

      [–]Dragonerne 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      Bidens grand children are all jewish.
      Trumps grandchildren are all jewish. Just a coincidence.

      [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      (((This is the way.)))

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      thanks for the back story, helpful. cheers

      [–]HugodeCrevellier 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Yes, completely agree.

      [–]zyxzevn 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      I made /s/askscience for people to have friendly debates.
      Feel free to make it more active.

      On reddit it is very restricted to certain ideologies or viewpoints.

      [–]UncleWillard56 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

      I'm honestly not paying attention to the actual subs that much. I generally go for the topic and don't care which sub it's in. That's a feature not a bug, imo. I've had more meaningful discussions on Saidit in the few months I've been here than in the past few years on reddit or any other social media platform, though my experience is severely limited as I'm not really on any.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      I tend to agree. Personally I'm a member of most subsaidits that are not too fringe. I just sort by new.

      [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Public Service Announcement: Are you getting ALL of SaidIt?
      /s/SaidIt/comments/899v/public_service_announcement_are_you_getting_all/

      [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

      Meaningful debate? Do you mean discussion, sharing information, and possibly debating ideas?

      Finding different ideas is not as big a problem on SaidIt as the dilemma of inauthentic authoritarian lying shills, sealions, timesucks, trolls, assholes, shitposters, and bots who waste your time and bandwidth, refuse to accept or acknowledge counterpoints and evidence, or even really look at citations.

      IMO, it's better to think of all of SaidIt as a single community (for better and worse).

      Sadly SaidIt has stooped to endless insults and name-calling. A sister forum would be good for serious respectful discussions, using SaidIt as a filter to find worthy folks to the invite-only second forum. Folks could have fun and free speech on SaidIt.

      It might be time to finally start making this second site happen.

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

      You don't think something like that could work here on saidit? (thank you for the response, btw..)

      [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

      The biggest hurdle to SaidIt being civil again is the fact that /u/magnora7 refuses to let the community be involved in how it's managed. He has everything to gain and nothing to lose, because he's still owner with veto power - which is fine. But he refuses to open things up like a petulant egotistical selfish child. There are no goals, there is no future, it could go down at any time, people don't have a say, people have no stake, and people don't give a fuck.

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

      How many members does saidit have? (approx.)

      [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

      Not sure if this is the best measure: /s/SaidIt says "42,007 readers", I think meaning subscribers, many of which are alt aliases, many never used and many long since abandoned.

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

      So maybe a few hundred active. What about a subsaidit that is more tightly modded? Ie if comments aren't relevant then they get removed? Or would that be considered censored?

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      I'd say around 200. It's cozy, you get to know everyone here.

      [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

      What's the difference between a moderated SaidIt and a community-regulated Lemmy instance?

      The community would have a say in the Lemmy instance, be automatically civilized and respectful, be openly self-regulating, be decentralized (shared, mirrored, backed-up), be worth promoting, and people would have a stake in it's success and future. This is a template that could be forked. Separate but together.

      If someone coded a bridge tool content on the Lemmy instance could be mirrored into a limited-access SaidIt sub, and vice versa. And/or perhaps a MultiShare™ browser addon that could could post in multiple places at the same time would solve the issue (ie. with one click post the same thing to Lemmy, SaidIt, Reddit, Communities.win, Twitter, Gab, etc.).

      Essentially people must demonstrate they're worthy of being invited to avoid STABs (shills, trolls, and bots) - thus SaidIt can be the filter to draw from and for free speech, fun, and nonsense.

      Removed, regulated, and/or censored comments can be openly determined by the community, rather than the capricious arbitrary decision of a single moderator, admin, or owner - and critically precedents can be established in documentation. Few hard rules (no porn, no advocating violence, no spam, no forum harm) and many soft guidelines with as many examples as necessary. Critically, all of these concepts would circle back to a foundational constitution-charter-mission statement, along with goals and a roadmap - all openly developed by the community.

      Problem users get 3 strikes recorded in open logs, and after each triplet their account will be locked for 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, then for good if they just can't behave. All strikes expire a year after their inception. People would have time and space to learn, grow, and improve.

      These are my first draft ideas that folks could start from, improve, and further develop.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

      make a sub called /s/TrueSaidIt and be the king of academic no trolling debates. be that mfing change.

      [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      Not a bad idea.
      For further responses take your pick:

      1. "/s/BeyondSaidIt, practice for the next realm."
      2. /s/YetAnotherSub ?
      3. So much work... I can't even.
      4. I'm working on me.
      5. I'm actually quite busy with editing.
      6. I built a bed stand today and have more projects lined up.
      7. And have to moderate it?
      8. Then what would I bitch about.
      9. All of the above.
      10. None Of The Above (now the Direct Democracy Party)
      11. I'll get a forum going one of these days/weeks/years.
      12. I'll get the discussions rolling this week.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      hahaha number 8!

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      PS I was referencing this, in case you didn't know it existed. That's why I picked the name. https://old.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/

      Redditards will instantly know what truesaidit is about.

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Worth a try imo.. I don't know any of the tech