We are making an idol of the nuclear family

submitted by Vulptex from self.Christianity

From nearly every pulpit these days, it is repeated day in and day out, and the message is clear. Your duty as a man is to marry a woman, go to work, have kids, and rule the home. Your duty as a woman is to marry a man, become a housewife, act soft and feminine, and have kids. Ideally, each person should have 2.5 kids and a middle class suburban home. Single people are looked down on and shamed. Even within married couples, people who don't or can't have kids, don't strictly follow traditional gender roles, marry interracially, don't blindly support everything certain political figures do, etc. are not welcomed. And if your family has a bad reputation, you do too, because badness runs in families apparently. And biological family is always more important than everyone else, including even adopted children. And the stereotypical 1950s family is obviously the core tenant of the Christian faith, and even the slightest deviation from this ideal is the devil. Never mind the fact that Jesus praised people who didn't marry and taught people to leave their "family values" behind to follow him. It wasn't biological heritage that mattered to him, but our spiritual brotherhood. He must just be a demonic agent sent to destroy the nuclear family!

This is a serious problem. It's gotten to the point where many of you talk about literally nothing else. People who choose not to marry are sinning, is how it gets treated, and so severely that it needs to be fought against every chance you get. As if the sole purpose of life is to marry and have kids, and anyone who doesn't do that, exactly the way it would look on a 50s show, is neglecting their biggest duty and committing an unforgivable sin. Not marrying and having kids is simply unacceptable many say, especially if you're a woman, but often men too.

Is there a particular reason why this is such a huge deal now? What exactly is wrong with someone whose calling is not marrying and creating a stereotypical family?

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[–]fschmidt 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I am truly horrified by the lack of any sane response by Christians here. This just shows how far Christianity has fallen. I am not Christian, I follow the Old Testament. Good Christians are very rare these days, and since none appear to be in this sub, I will respond instead.

Having a traditional family is certainly the ideal. Without such families, society falls apart. So it is the responsibility of religion to promote traditional families. The breakdown of the traditional family is the biggest problem facing humanity today.

It is the responsibility of the parents to maintain morality in the family. If they fail do so, then they deserve a bad reputation.

Both Jesus and Moses taught that God comes before family. The point is that if some relatives become evil then you should reject them, not support them just because they are family. But putting God before family is not a rejection of family at all. This is twisting what they said.

Most Christians today are disgusting depraved scum, totally lacking in morals. The first step to remedying this situation is to bring back traditional values, most importantly traditional family values.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You are wildly wrong in your assessment. Most Christians are completely obsessed with nothing but "traditional family values" and ignore everything else to harp on it. You won't make it through a single discussion with one of them without this topic coming up.

Having a traditional family is certainly the ideal. Without such families, society falls apart. So it is the responsibility of religion to promote traditional families. The breakdown of the traditional family is the biggest problem facing humanity today.

Society is a force run by Satan, the god of this world. The "New World Order" isn't right around the corner, it's already here, and has been since the very beginning, but if you're part of it you can't see it, tribalism is blinding. He loves to divide people by arbitrary lines and tempt them into doing awful things to each other. There is only one authentic family and biological relations aint it. This "traditional" nonsense has its roots in Greco-Roman paganism, which can be traced back to Babylonian and Egyptian brutality, and has been the cause of so much agony for God's family. Of course both the secular media and the pharisee religious groups don't want you to know that and paint the story the opposite way around, but they're not fooling me anymore. Society has never been God's servant, it's just started pretending to be ever since they realized Christianity couldn't be stopped.

The point is that if some relatives become evil then you should reject them, not support them just because they are family.

It also means you shouldn't love someone less just because they're not biological family.

But putting God before family is not a rejection of family at all. This is twisting what they said.

No, they taught there is one family, the spiritual one, which is why they started calling themselves siblings. And yes, choosing to remain single was just as good as marrying and starting a family. There's no point in trying to deny it, this is remarkably clear. People who say otherwise are just looking for an excuse to judge another.

Most Christians today are disgusting depraved scum, totally lacking in morals. The first step to remedying this situation is to bring back traditional values, most importantly traditional family values.

Your first sentence is correct. But it's because they're too focused on their traditional and family values, us vs them, that they miss everything important and even deny the truth to support their agenda. You don't hear about how many preachers hoard huge salaries for obvious reasons, Nor do they like to read any of the gospels because their false doctrines rely on out-of-context Pauline and old testament passages as well as a few forgeries.

[–]fschmidt 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You are wildly wrong in your assessment. Most Christians are completely obsessed with nothing but "traditional family values" and ignore everything else to harp on it. You won't make it through a single discussion with one of them without this topic coming up.

I guess it's all relative, and relative to my view, most Christians don't have family values. I don't take talk very seriously, I mostly look at actions and results. So if Christians are obsessed with family values, why is their divorce rate so high?

Society is a force run by Satan, the god of this world. The "New World Order" isn't right around the corner, it's already here, and has been since the very beginning, but if you're part of it you can't see it, tribalism is blinding. He loves to divide people by arbitrary lines and tempt them into doing awful things to each other. There is only one authentic family and biological relations aint it. This "traditional" nonsense has its roots in Greco-Roman paganism, which can be traced back to Babylonian and Egyptian brutality, and has been the cause of so much agony for God's family. Of course both the secular media and the pharisee religious groups don't want you to know that and paint the story the opposite way around, but they're not fooling me anymore. Society has never been God's servant, it's just started pretending to be ever since they realized Christianity couldn't be stopped.

Have you read the Old Testament? I mean if someone tells me that the sky is green, I just can't argue because this person can't see reality. This is the level of what you wrote. God supports tribalism because the only way that good can be selected for is by tribes (and their ethical systems) competing. Globalism is evil.

The point is that if some relatives become evil then you should reject them, not support them just because they are family.

It also means you shouldn't love someone less just because they're not biological family.

No it doesn't. Please learn some logic.

No, they taught there is one family, the spiritual one, which is why they started calling themselves siblings. And yes, choosing to remain single was just as good as marrying and starting a family. There's no point in trying to deny it, this is remarkably clear. People who say otherwise are just looking for an excuse to judge another.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say any of this. Christians also generally misunderstand what Jesus said about judgement, but that is another subject.

Nor do they [preachers] like to read any of the gospels because their false doctrines rely on out-of-context Pauline and old testament passages as well as a few forgeries.

I agree here, but for the opposite reason. So now please quote from the gospels anything that you think supports your position.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So if Christians are obsessed with family values, why is their divorce rate so high?

Because they're so obsessed with making sure people aren't single that they feel pressured to marry VERY early. This doesn't work out for obvious reasons. It's forced.

Have you read the Old Testament? I mean if someone tells me that the sky is green, I just can't argue because this person can't see reality. This is the level of what you wrote. God supports tribalism because the only way that good can be selected for is by tribes (and their ethical systems) competing. Globalism is evil.

Globalism is evil because it is the epitome of society. Instead of a bunch of smaller human orders that all oppose God, they all unite into one big one! But the good "being selected for" is bogus, it's a fact of life that the most vile and evil people are actually the ones favored by natural selection. You don't get to the top by being a good person, you get there by cheating and taking advantage of others, and that's just the way Satan's world works. Why else do you think God's people have always been so reviled and persecuted throughout history?

No it doesn't. Please learn some logic.

Did Jesus not say to leave your biological ties behind for your new spiritual family? Primal instincts are part of fallen nature.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say any of this. Christians also generally misunderstand what Jesus said about judgement, but that is another subject.

Multiple times people were instructed to leave biological family behind to follow Jesus. They also called each other "brothers and sisters" because they were all children of God in the real spiritual family. And not marrying is praised in Matthew 19:11-12, and not condemned.

I agree here, but for the opposite reason. So now please quote from the gospels anything that you think supports your position.

"And he told them, 'not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it was given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb, and there were eunuchs who were castrated by men, and there are eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs because of the kingdom of the heavens.'" - Matthew 19:12. Note that the last comment likely refers to actual self castration, which would've been loathed in the ancient world which highly valued masculine dominance. In addition, uncastrated celibates are praised by Paul, an important early witness to Christianity, and John and Jesus both never married. In complete opposition to the culture which did not respect you if you were not married.

[–]fschmidt 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

May you burn in hell.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/022/019/rejected_his_message.jpg

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Franky I think one of the reasons men are doing so badly right now is this obsession with one life path, getting a family. The church in the past knew full well this didn't work for everyone so had multiple paths people could take and still be good Christians like monasteries. In the east they still have this set up and have a lot less social isolation and misery because of it.

[–]Vulptex[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think that's why men are doing so bad, men are just always going to be doing bad because it's in our biological makeup to be miserable. Men are designed to be warriors, so our brains prioritize aggressive and ambitious emotions and physical skills as opposed to happiness and creativity. That isn't to say men can't ever be happy, but our natural framework is slanted against it. You can't be ambitious if you're already satisfied, because then you have nothing to be ambitious for, so if men weren't so angry and impossible to please we wouldn't make good fighters.

I think the getting a family obsession actually hurts women more than men. Studies have repeatedly shown that men aren't happy single but women do just fine either way. The reason is again in our biological design, men are specialized to defend and provide for others, and if they don't have a partner or a family to do this for they feel useless. They don't have much talent for creating their own life, their purpose is to make someone elses', otherwise they're just taking up space and being miserable for nothing. Men also have insanely high sex drives, and these are usually uncontrollable. They get into extreme discomfort from a lack of sex, and the only way to release this tension is by having sex. This is why almost every rapist is a man. There are a few men who don't care much about this, and I am one of them, but this requires a biological anomaly and plenty of basic primal instincts to be absent, so we are very much in the minority. For women though this is not abnormal.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

If you adopt children of different race their school can teach them to hate you. Without a large united family, you're powerless. Unless you have a good celibacy technique, staying single will make you sin, one way or another.

[–]whistlepig 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I disagree with your conclusion, but I agree that there is security in numbers and that is a big plus in having a family.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Children aren't going to believe a teacher over a parent. And why would being single make you sin? Are married couples, particularly those that follow the norm of working man, housewife, and 2.5 kids, somehow immune to the clutches of evil?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Children aren't going to believe a teacher over a parent.

One teacher, no. All teachers, mass media and their peers, yes. Has happened, keeps happening.

And why would being single make you sin?

Because lust exists. Common ways to deal with it increase your separation from God.

somehow immune to the clutches of evil

Not immune, but having a way to deal with your natural needs seems helpful.

[–]Vulptex[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

One teacher, no. All teachers, mass media and their peers, yes. Has happened, keeps happening.

They may initially, but children are hardwired to trust their parents. This can be bad if they tell them something wrong, but it also means a parent can easily shatter any lies the system tells them.

Because lust exists. Common ways to deal with it increase your separation from God.

Yeah, and getting married doesn't stop it, nor does having a family specifically of a working man, a housewife, 2.5 kids, and a suburban home. If it did then adultery wouldn't be a thing.

Not immune, but having a way to deal with your natural needs seems helpful.

There are other releases besides lust and fornication. If you can't do that it shows something about one person, you, and in that case it's better to marry than to burn. But don't go generalizing, some people don't even have a desire for sex at all.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

They may initially, but children are hardwired to trust their parents. This can be bad if they tell them something wrong, but it also means a parent can easily shatter any lies the system tells them.

They will follow their parents for the first 10 years. But they are constantly observing their tribe in search of compatible authority figures. Once these authorities are found, children will learn from them instead.

Yeah, and getting married doesn't stop it, nor does having a family specifically of a working man, a housewife, 2.5 kids, and a suburban home. If it did then adultery wouldn't be a thing.

Yeah, modern families aren't very useful. The original version was more helpful. The original idea. Not sure how many people have actually tried it.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

They will follow their parents for the first 10 years. But they are constantly observing their tribe in search of compatible authority figures. Once these authorities are found, children will learn from them instead.

They'll learn from all of them, but those first 10 years are still the most fundamental framework. They would have to legit decide differently for themselves.

Yeah, modern families aren't very useful. The original version was more helpful. The original idea. Not sure how many people have actually tried it.

Wdym?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

They'll learn from all of them, but those first 10 years are still the most fundamental framework. They would have to legit decide differently for themselves.

If the parents have no power in their society, children will instinctively avoid their advice.

Wdym?

Large families with many relatives, men and women do their own thing.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

If the parents have no power in their society, children will instinctively avoid their advice.

They live with them their whole childhood, of course they're going to listen to them.

Large families with many relatives, men and women do their own thing.

Everyone I know has many relatives. And what do you suggest is "their own thing"?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

They live with them their whole childhood, of course they're going to listen to them.

As long as the parents obediently repeat whatever the ruling party says, and even then, they won't necessary stay very close.

And what do you suggest is "their own thing"?

Internal matters, external matters, actually cultivating the relationship.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

As long as the parents obediently repeat whatever the ruling party says, and even then, they won't necessary stay very close.

No, everyone I know who buys the elites' bs does so because their parents also did. It's literally hardwired into children to cling to their parents, which never fully subsides even in adulthood.

Internal matters, external matters, actually cultivating the relationship.

Are you saying people should only marry within their family?

[–]AnarchySpeach 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

$

I ain't touching a wedding ring unless I'm rich enough to afford the divorce. The look on people's faces when I says I can't afford to get married is hilarious. They act like I just said 2+2=5.

"Don't plan on ever getting enough money because you won't."

I laughed in my parents face and walked out of the room.

Their retirement plan is me. And they think I can raise a family on top of that? Where the Harry Potter bank vault full of gold coins? Stashed in the backyard? I can barely afford to feed myself cup of noodles, yet somehow poof a million dollars out of thin air. The "well you're obviously not working hard enough" response I got was even more stupid. Like, I'm not hunched over in serious pain, every joint worn out from stacking bricks, hated my life, so obviously I'm not working hard enough to deserve more money. They can't fathom the idea that I would rather choose to be poor in my tiny shit apartment with internet, than destroy my body with back breaking labor for a family only to inevitably go bankrupt during the divorce and paying for kids I'll see once a week.

Nah. Fuck all of that. I'm playing video games. Choosing to be happy. Working a job I can quite at a moments notice if the manager so much as looks at me funny. I am living the dream right now.

Do I wish I could start a family? Yes. Sure I would. But if I ever get lonely to the point I lose my comprehension of economics I'll buy a dog instead. To anybody who says "What about sex?" I ran the math. Buying a plane ticket, flying to a different country, staying in a hotel, and paying $20k for an escort is still cheaper than what I would lose when the marriage fall apart.

why this is such a huge deal now?

I think a lot of old people are realizing they can't afford to live alone anymore and are mad their kids can't support them, but that's just my biased guess.

[–]carn0ld03 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Could you be more specific without loosing focus? What is the problem you've observed? What is your general age, sex, region of the country? I read mostly venting of frustration and I refuse to even attempt to engage such disjointed thoughts.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I was as specific as possible, come on. You just don't like what I said.

I am a young adult male from the EDT timezone in the US.