all 35 comments

[–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Just some ideas on a Saturday afternoon

[–]Zombi 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

While there's a lot to unpack with this post, I think I'll keep it simple:

When you really think about everything and its meaning or why you're really doing what you do, it all sort of just becomes an illusion. In short: nothing matters and nothing means anything.

With that in mind your world becomes entirely subjective and in turn meaning is based solely on your personal goals. There is no right or wrong way to live. There are ways that you personally don't agree with, but as far as inherently good or bad? There's no such thing. The life of a serial killer is just as valid as the life of Mr. Rogers in the grand scheme of things.

I live my life knowing these truths and so I've given up asking "What is it all for?" I've been much happier since then and now I do things purely to make myself happy and those around me happy. If I am going to live a meaningless, insignificant, existence I may as well make it a fun ride! That doesn't mean my way of thinking is the way of thinking. Your way of life is to live in the moment and cherish the immaterial, another's may be the complete opposite. All are equal as all are meaningless.

TL;DR Your personal way of living your life is the correct way.

[–]magnora7[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Good comment. I agree it's all meaningless. But I also think we are trapped here for our lifespans so we might as well try to make things as good as possible while we are here. It seems like the best game to play. Not just for ourselves but for others, so that we can have an environment of peace. "The simple man tries to be happy by making himself satisfied, the wise man satisfies those around him to make himself happy"

[–]Zombi 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I go for both. Life requires you satisfy your own needs because without those being met, you cannot make others happy (I couldn't at least). I notice I'm able to make others laugh more, be more generous, and overall help others when I myself have my own needs attended to. The better my life is going enables me to better help those around me.

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh I agree completely. You cannot make others happy without being happy yourself, but you cannot make yourself happy by completely ignoring others either.

Like on an airplane that is crashing, you need to put on your oxygen mask before you help others put on theirs. Because if you are dead, then you can help no one. I think emotional needs are similar.

[–]HeyImSancho 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Going with the idea that energy only changes form, and life being energy, we don't die.

The idea of a temporal world being a testing ground for those who're naturally spiritually inclined for whatever purpose, sure does seem like a good way to separate the wheat from the chaff; who, or what has the gusto, and who, or what doesn't.

[–]Zombi 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

In a sense I agree with the first part. When you get down to it "we" don't exist, really. We are just a collection of energy, so scientifically you could argue that we are immortal.

As far as whether reality is a testing ground? I don't see why it would be. I think there's two types of thinking when it comes to our existence: The story and the sandbox. You can take it as having a purpose like you've stated (a story) or you can take it as how I interpret the world (a sandbox). One has a goal, a purpose that isn't defined by yourself, but by some other entity. The other is purposeless; leaving only those within the sandbox to decide what their purpose is.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

so scientifically you could argue that we are immortal.

I think you are on to something here. Our consciousness just changes forms. It seems clear consciousness exists for tiny things like bugs, why not bacteria? Why not cells? Why not molecules? Why not atoms themselves?

Obviously the complexity of expression changes as the lifeforms become simpler, but the ability to be aware itself never seems to completely vanish. And it also explains how we became conscious in the first place, because it was always there. And it also means everything in the universe is conscious.

I've heard this philosophy called "Hylozoism" and I find it interesting:

And in a sense it could also explain the "reincarnation" of Buddhism, and the "afterlife" of other religions. I think human consciousness is a "democracy of cells" in some sense, and even if the nation falls apart the people in it live on, so to speak. The atoms of a dead body never go away.

[–]Zombi 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Consciousness doesn't exist and the reason everything seems conscious (the reason it's "always been there") is due to it all being governed by the laws of the universe. Consciousness itself is just a byproduct of very specific reactions between very specific particles.

If you're like me you don't believe in free will and if we go even further you don't believe there's really any fundamental difference between yourself and a rock. You're makeup just allows your atoms to move in a way which seems autonomous, but is still at its core just atoms interacting with each other: no different than a rock.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I would go the other way and say consciousness it the only thing I know for sure that does exist.

I agree on the free will thing, we probably don't have it, just the illusion of it (which feels the same as actually having it)

[–]Zombi 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hm, I guess it can be both now that I think about it. The physical reactions that create consciousness as we know it and the consciousness itself are one in the same. You're right in the literally the only thing you or I can be certain of is that we are conscious (pertaining to ourselves, not others).

I get into a lot of debates about free will with people. Most outright reject my philosophy on the matter as it takes away the (illusion of) their control over their lives, but I cannot fathom how we can logically think we have it. If your mind is the product of your brain and your brain is the product of a specific arrangement of atoms, then logic follows your mind is governed by the exact same principles that atoms are governed by; meaning so long as you know the exact conditions of those particles you can predict the outcome of each interaction. If we could interpret the interactions between those particles within your brain with 100% certainty/accuracy then we would be able to literally read your mind. If we knew the exact conditions of every particle we could read your future.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree completely with everything you said.

I think the trick to it is that even a game of pinball is 100% physics, but it still "appears" random, simply because of our lack of complete knowledge (aka our ignorance). And we will never ever be in a situation where we are without ignorance, simply due to our limited range of perception as a human being with a human brain. So things still appear random at times, and we still appear to have free will, and it'll never not be the case. But every word of what you said is true as well.

[–]kazenmusic 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Thanks for this mild essay. You've brought back to my mind a writing by one of my favorite authors, Richard Brautigan. It may not speak directly to your musings; but perhaps like a Bob Dylan song, whether it has meaning or not is not the important part of it-

“I guess you are kind of curious as to who I am, but I am one of those who do not have a regular name. My name depends on you. Just call me whatever is in your mind. If you are thinking about something that happened a long time ago: Somebody asked you a question and you did not know the answer. That is my name. Perhaps it was raining very hard. That is my name. Or somebody wanted you to do something. You did it. Then they told you what you did was wrong—“Sorry for the mistake,”—and you had to do something else. That is my name. Perhaps it was a game you played when you were a child or something that came idly into your mind when you were old and sitting in a chair near the window. That is my name. Or you walked someplace. There were flowers all around. That is my name. Perhaps you stared into a river. There was someone near you who loved you. They were about to touch you. You could feel this before it happened. Then it happened. That is my name.”

[–]magnora7[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting quote, I enjoyed that. Reminds me of the saying "I am that which is." or this book "I Am That"

"Love says: 'I am everything'. Wisdom says: 'I am nothing'. Between the two my life flows."

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)


I just counted 26 books of his or about him, some duplicates because I give them away. Most folks have no clue about him, last and greatest of the Beats.

From my old site c. 2000-2010...

My old Good Vibes page :

"In Watermelon Sugar" by Richard Brautigan (full text linked below) :

It's the ONLY story that I would want to develop and animate that someone else wrote. I think John Malcovich owns the rights though.

I felt like it needed to be wrapped up with a bow, so...

"In Watermelon Sugar, The Missing Last Chapter(s)" by Jason Carswell [Wayback MISSING] :,TheMissingLastChapter(s).html

Missing on the Internet Archive - but presented here...


Margaret Again, Again, Again, Again, Again, Again


Margaret, For The Last Time


The Last Chapter

(Original Version, 1988)

The musicians played wonderfully as we all danced. I think it was one of their best performances I had ever heard. Old Chuck watched while Pauline and I waltzed. We danced together most of the night, but Charley and Fred cut in every once in a while.

Afterwards everyone left smiling. Pauline and I headed back to my shack. We paused crossing the bridge to my shack and looked into the river. We saw the old trout looking up at us.

I said, "He sure does get around for a trout that age."

Pauline hummed a smile. I took her hand in mine. We continued across the bridge. I thought how I would never hear that noise from the bridge again. We went into my shack and I closed the door.

Fin #1.

(The original version was temporarily lost creating a need for Version 2, Sept.25, 1991)

The dance was probably one of the best that I or any one could remember for a long, long time.

We said goodnight to Fred, Charley, and the rest and then Pauline and I headed up to my shack. We stopped on the bridge to my shack and looked in the river at the Grand Old Trout. He looked at us. We looked at him. He watched us as we headed toward my shack.

When we got to the door I realised that I would never hear the board that used to make noise make noise again.

Fin #2.

(I couldn't decide which version I liked better, nor could I easily merge them. So I present both.)

[–]kazenmusic 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wow, this is like crossing into Toon Town!

Good to meet a kindred spirit.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know right!

Also, I'm an animator. For realz.

[–]HopeThatHalps 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For example, we may decide that "happiness" equals "success". And then also later decide that "success" equals "career/money". And then spend 40 years working a job that we aren't very fond of, on the premise that someday it'll make us happy.

I don't think its about success = happiness, it's success = keeping up with other people, proving that we have self-worth in a society where money is everything. To paraphrase the Wolf of Wallstreet, "money can even make you a good person."

Or a different example, someone might decide that "joy = forgiveness" because they have a very guilty conscience for whatever reason, and then decide the best way to get forgiveness is through Christianity because that's what Jesus taught. And the best way to Christianity is the local church.

Religion is more about belonging to something that provides community and structure. Humans are social creatures, religion is a framework to that end. Christians who say they espouse forgiveness ultimately favor justice; paying for your crimes.

Or someone might decide that world peace will come once all threats can be eliminated. So that becomes their mini-game in life. They join the army,

I doubt many enlistees genuinely go in to make the world a better place. It's more likely a personal economic decision.

What are we even doing? Right this very second on Earth, 7.7 billion human brains are abuzz with thoughts and emotion. What are the goals, and why? ...

Regarding the overall issue of personal meaning, I don't believe people are supposed to have individual meaning, we're always parts of some whole, a whole which does have meaning. For example, a family unit, the mother tends to the home, the father brings back resources and provides protection, the children eventually take care of the aging parents and repeat the cycle. In a larger group, some are born to be natural leaders, some are born to be natural followers, some are good at communicating, some are good at solving problems, and so in the context of the family unit or a community or organization, the individual fits in somewhere and has meaning.

If you look at any person in isolation of where they are, and what they do, you won't find meaning, and I think that's the problem, people don't want to believe that family and community are just a means to an ends, when in fact those things are the ends.

[–]Robin 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. They are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which it was already but too easy to arrive at; as railroads lead to Boston or New York." (Thoreau)

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This mini game analogy is a good one. I can't say with confidence that escaping from your mini game is more valuable than playing it, but having the mindfulness to realize you play a mini game and others play different mini games sounds pretty worthwhile.

I can't get behind progress existing because "there's nothing new under the sun." But in a microcosm and mini game maybe it does.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

"There's nothing new under the sun." Except profoundly powerful technology, propaganda, resources, and more power than ever before in the hands of a few who seek to exploit the many and the planet.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

profoundly powerful technology

But we have evidence that this existed 12k years ago. Technology is just tools and efficiencies. These dots on my screen aren't necessarily that much better than dots on parchment or clay. Aside from maybe the singularity, I don't see how technology can greatly alter or affect our humanity. As soon as we live to be 1000, cancer2 will make an appearance and it'll be the same thing as ever.


Pretty sure that's the worlds second oldest profession


Not really sure what this means, but sure, we do have some new elements on the periodic table and the know how to get them. We also don't have buffalo or clean water.

more power than ever before in the hands of a few

Yeah maybe it looks that way, but maybe it's just a cycle and we're at peak Pax Americana.

I donno this seems like it's gone over into subjective philosophy, but this is why/how "nothing new under the sun" makes sense to me. I've picked up on this huge "our generation/century is the best" bias when every generation has said that this whole time. Here we are 12k years into this thing, but we still just wanna drink wine with the ladies like the monkeys we are.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's never been easier to control a million people.

It's never been easier to kill a million people.

It's never been easier to do it in record speed.

Same but different. The singularity is a game changer.

"They" control the biggest computers. But we have the numbers. Will the artificial A.I. God be on our side or the ruling class or somehow neutral or wipe us all out?

I don't think any generation is better or worse. They just are.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Cool chart. I guess I have very little faith that "vastly expanded human intelligence" will be worth a damn.

The AIs will probably try to kill us all unless we get some strong libertarian philosophy all up in their core programming.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ray Kurzweil is WAAAAY too optimistic about technology and the Singularity, from where that chart is from. It's a terribly dry and long tedious read, but it's also very interesting. I got through 3/4 and lost interest. It's in my big pile of unfinished books.

He ignores all the down sides of tech. Not even talking about the war machines or depopulation agendas, how bad does pollution have to get before "the market" decides to make it profitable to develop technology to clean up the environment? And science that is proprietary is scientism. Only open science can be debunked or proven true. He ignores all the down sides of tech.

IMHO the only chance life on earth has is to become valuable to A.I.s. Just as we learn from nature, A.I. can learn from us. We have to prove how valuable we are to become symbiotic. We also have to prove how valuable our ethics are or else many of us will become lab rats, zoo specimens, or deleted useless eaters.

[–]i_cansmellthat 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And I mean that, you are a free to choose as you wish, and that's one of the craziest things about this whole existence. We have all these choices we didn't even realize we had, because we never took the time to stop playing the mini-games we were fixated on, and just step back and re-evaluate things as a whole.

A couple of weeks ago, my nephew was complaining about his friend to me. He is 11, and while with a group of friends he had shot a video of one of them acting loud and crazy, like most 11 year old boys act. He had posted the vid on his youtube channel with his friends permission, but the next day his friend was adamant he take it down. His complaint to me was, "He is making me take it down." My reaction was close to anger at him, I told him no one can make you do anything. Leave it up, take it down, don't wear pants today, whatever. You always have a choice, some choices have consequences. Take it down because you choose to, not because you are forced to. I feel like what you said there echoed our conversation (in a way) in that many people feel they have to do something this way or that, when in fact they have way more control than they think.

Great write up, thought about it quite a bit since first reading it.

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's a great thing to teach your 11-year old. I honestly did not figure that out until I was in my 20s. I always did everything I was told, and it got me a lot of heartache without much to show for it.

Your distinction of doing an action because you choose to, based on the consequences, rather than because someone told you to, is a subtle distinction that's very important, and a lesson they certainly don't teach in school or at church. And my parents never taught it to me either.

Anyway, glad you found the article to be thought-provoking, and I think that's a great lesson that you taught your son.

[–]i_cansmellthat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yea I didn't figure that out early in life either, and I still catch reverting back to "I don't have a choice" mode, though not often. It's freeing really, no excuses for why you land where you find yourself (in most cases).

[–]useless_aether 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.

“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

also, there is the importance of knowing ourselves. when we are young, our options might appear limitless. we have all this time ahead of us after all! we might think we have unlimited moves to make on the chessboard. but as time goes on, our limitations will become apparent, we realize we will never be an astronaut for example. but knowing ourselves is important, our capabilities and qualities will define the size and the shape of the chessboard available to us. when we dont know ourselves well enough, we might boldly put a piece on a nonexistent field and then watch it disappear, falling into the void. and thats okay too, just another way to learn.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Is this sub like /s/C_S_T aka Critical Shower Thoughts?

For a while I thought Critical Shower Thoughts was a euphemism for Holocaust skepticism/denial because of the "gassing showers", for something deep/heavy to analyse or think about, and since I'd seen something there before I started posting there. Later I realized I'd posted a few things there mistakenly under this assumption.

(HolocaustSkepticism is still on my subs-to-make list, but I have a new pragmatic system to determine which comes next. I have bookmark folders with content to post in them if/when they get made. Each week the highest number gets made. HS only has 3. Energy has 16 (with GEET 3+, Oil 4, Thorium 6+), VaccineSkepticism has 10, OpenScience and RacialDivision_EliteTool have 7. FYI Solutions and Scientism have 20 each, but have several sub-folders within.)

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Yes it's critical shower thoughts about general things and not all this hyper-controversial stuff you seem intent on pushing. Also you completely ignored the post itself in your reply to talk about your sub kingdom-building lol...

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

and not all this hyper-controversial stuff you seem intent on pushing.

Hyper-controversial stuff? Like what? The non-MSM news? Do you want me to stop?

I'm not pushing anything. I'm posting most of the good stuff I come across. Some stuff I'm saving for when there's actually a place to put it. And other stuff is too specialized to share here.

Also you completely ignored the post itself in your reply to talk about your sub kingdom-building lol...

That's your up-onion lol...

IMHO your post was great but dreamy wishful thinking. I'm all for preparing for the worst and hoping for the best, not just the latter. I see the totalitarians freaking out as the masses are waking up. It's an information war.

In any given moment in life, there are good things and bad things that can be noticed. Which are you focused on, and why?

I'm focused on routing out the problems, raising awareness, motivating folks, and finding solutions.

This understanding opens up a sort of mindful appreciation for everything that's going on. And then who cares about working in a dingy office to get a better car? Who are you trying to impress? Yourself?

I'm not a consumerist on an ego quest. I lost almost everything to Big Pharma poisons. If anything I consider myself more of a monk witness to the pre-singularity duing the holocene extinction. I'd be writing crap in books hoping to help future generations if I lived before electricity.

What could be more valuable than the present moment? If we don't cherish it and built it up, what are we even doing?

I agree. I'm trying to build up SaidIt because I see a lot of potential here. I have 2 big projects I want to share here over years to come. Almost everything in them is about drilling down to the most important IMHO issues humanity desperately needs to face. Maybe I should just do those and leave SaidIt to it's own devices.

Also you completely ignored the post itself in your reply to talk about your sub kingdom-building lol...

I ignored the post because I thought it was nice but fluffy and had nothing to say about it. You're not very active on chat and I thought I'd share with you since you're the only one who's up-onion matters when it comes to the number of subs we get.

For five months no one had ever clearly given me a decent reason why fewer subs are better - not until last week. And even Zombie couldn't answer it but because he tried I wanted to know more. d3rr finally explained that they're not just categories - they are the beginnings of communities. That illuminated everything for me. If ever there was a time to embrace Reddit aspects or reject them, then the time is now. SaidIt in it's entirety is a community, but if it's not careful it may go the same way without action to prevent divisive echo chambers.

My so-called kingdom of subs was and still is to better organize SaidIt, but now I have a better method. I thought you might have appreciated it.

Granted I need to get off my ass and finally finish the last few things on the CSS, redo a few banners, and then I'm going to un-mod myself from all of them that have co-mods (except DecentralizeAllThings and TrutherTop20s) and hope to find mods to take over the others. The new mods can ditch my CSS and banners as they see fit. Or maybe they, like some, think they're okay. And while I've tested with some things that didn't work out I'm pretty sure I've implemented all suggestions to improve them. If there were classifications, metatags, or other ways to organize then I wouldn't even need subs. But that's not how it was built.

In my little list above, GEET, Thorium, OpenScience, and Solutions are all positive. Energy is neutral and RacialDivision_EliteTool (for lack of a better title) may be considered negative but I think it's positive as awareness about it gives people the ability not to buy into it. HolocaustSkepticism, VaccineSkepticism, and Scientism may be controversial to the uninformed, but necessary and similarly empower people with alternative ideas. So that's 4 positive, 1 neutral, and 4 controversial, maybe even "hyper-controversial", and Oil, whatever that is. IMHO I think it's balanced, and I didn't even plan that.

Tell me what stuff you don't want posted and I won't. Tell me what stuff you want posted and I will. If you want me to just do stuff in a few subs I can just do my projects.

You don't like my humour and you don't like my serious content. If you want me to take a vacation for a month or forever I can do that too. I'm fine regardless. I can fill up the subs with content so people don't see a bunch of empty subs, which apparently is like a sin, thought there's more than ever. Or I can be busy and productive on my other off-SaidIt work.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You don't like my humour and you don't like my serious content.

That's not true, I don't like some of your humor, and I don't like some of your serious content. I also praise plenty of your content. And given the volume with which you post so frequently on saidit, do you really find it all that amazing that I'll disagree with you sometimes?

I'm just upset here I'm trying to make a deep post here about the soul of life, and you're turning it in to some crass discussion about hyper-controversial and hyper-political subjects like anti-vaxxing and what subs you want to register to build up your sub empire. It's just not a great look tbh. I like plenty of other things you post, as do others. You post 200 things a day, are you really surprised I disagree with some of them?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)


Why not?

Both are good questions.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it's like that youth wasted on youth thing, money wasted on old people thing, young people don't give much of a shit about anything besides fucking, old people's body falls apart so they can't fuck and think about improving the world but are too old and broken down to do it anymore. Many sell their soul to get more life in terms of medical help which costs money.