Both: Has International Pronouns Day (or other "awareness" days) had any effect on your personal life?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

Just out of curiosity, I notice today was International Pronouns Day.

Thankfully, my day was uneventful and no one asked my pronouns. Have any of these days dedicated to awareness of various trans issues had any effect on your personal life, either online or offline?

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[–]DistantGlimmer 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Other than being a mild irritation reading about it online not really. It just seems so narcissistic to have a whole day dedicated to how to correctly address a special group of people (and the same group of people claims to be the most oppressed people in the world). I'm kind of glad to live in a small town where the whole custom pronouns thing hasn't taken off. We have so many actual problems as a society right now. It's so frivolous to be wasting energy on this.

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same here. And not only narcissistic, but it's also an imposition on people who don't want to be forced to give pronouns in public, including closeted trans people.

The organizers of this event encourage people to ask the pronouns of others, which means putting gender critical, religious, GNC, and closeted people in a bad position.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Nope. Nobody here would take you seriously if you asked for their pronouns.

There are real problems to have days of awareness about but sure, let’s dedicate one to men being asked for their opinion even more.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

September was "PCOS awareness month", and september 1st is International PCOS awareness day. Have you heard about it anywhere in news?

December 1st is International HIV awareness day. Have you heard about this in last 10-15 years? It was appearing in news 10+ years ago, but not anymore.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Everything has a day. Cheese, talking like a pirate, wearing glasses probably.

None of them achieve anything but at least a vain and noble effort is better than total narcissism.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, unlike cheese, pronouns or pirates - PCOS and HIV are real problems that are very underrepresented and underresearched, and problems that exist in every society and not exclusive to English language. The more people know, the more chances researches would be done about them, and the more people will not be so agressive against people with them (I was working in charity PCOS center, helping women there, they have such huge burden of the society pressure, as they often have beards, manly voices, etc).

And yet, no one is reminding about them in news or on forums, but pronouns day is everywhere. I suppose being misgendered once is much worse than have AIDS? I don't see other reasons.

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think it would be the same where I live. I read all these stories about people being forced to give pronouns at work, and I can't imagine in a million years that ever happening at my workplace.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Right? Most people would be nonplussed at the question and a little pissed at asking if they’re a man or a woman when you can damn well see them.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That can actually be rude and hit self-confidence of some people.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’d be beyond insulted if someone asked me to verify that I am a woman.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Only in the internet. And it was slightly annoying, especially in some groups, when moderators said "today we all fae/fer/fis" to support this day.

Custom pronouns are not possible in my language (and in most languages) - I am really not sure how this day is "International" if only few languages in the world can even have them at all.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Good point. Many languages don't offer the option of custom-made pronouns to begin with.

when moderators said "today we all fae/fer/fis" to support this day.

Good grief. They actually used that as an example? Also, doesn't it defeat the purpose if they're imposing a pronoun rather than letting people decide for themselves?

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They actually used that as an example?

Yes and it was something different to your regular "fae" one. I am already can't remember that one, and now they introducing same, but slightly different one (and I still don't know how pronounce it, neither do people I've asked).

It is almost as confusing the "he/her" and "she/his" ones. I've seen something like "Brother of X went to a party. X thought about this, and she decided to go to a party too, so she took his bag and went to a party". I thought that "his bag" was about "brother of X", but no - it was about X. Pronouns are used only as a third person - when person is not present. So how I was supposed to know that person in question is she/his, as they never told me their pronouns and were not in conversation? And what if X's brother was "She/his" too? Than "she" there could be about him as well. This just makes no sense and super confusing, especially for not native English speaker, especially when mother tongue is gendered and "pro-drop", so in half of places pronouns are not even used, as they are understandable from context (like example above will sound "Brother of X went to a party. X thought about this and decided to go to a party too, took bag and followed").

Also, doesn't it defeat the purpose if they're imposing a pronoun rather than letting people decide for themselves?

I am pretty sure majority of casual people have no idea what it is and not really care much, just trying to be trendy and to not "hurt anyone".

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

More like International Narcissism Day amiright??? Lol

Eta- it’s annoying And cringe, but at this point I can scroll past online or end the conversation in person.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Has the conversation ever come up in person?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Oh yes

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

How do you deal with it?

I've been thinking about various strategies in case it comes up for me.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don’t even strategize unless it’s work related. If is work related (which is rare) I just let them tell me their Pronouns and say “I’m a woman”. If it’s not work related I literally just say “I’m gc i don’t play the pronoun game” and usually they get upset and try to push their ideology and tell me I’m a bigot and I just say “okay” and walk away. It doesn’t happen often, but I don’t have the energy to go back and forth. I get more gc daily and o just lost the patience.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I can't imagine dealing with it so often in real life. That must suck. I think my strategy if it ever comes up for me is to say I'm uncomfortable talking about gender in public. I hope no one would press me further.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Pronouns are used when person is not present at all, in English it is possible to just call persons name instead of pronouns. That is easiest way so far I found.

In our language it is much harder (gladly there almost no transgenders, even thought there will be more it seems, as trans organizations got money funding from the West, and using homophobia as way to push ideology, like "make your kid straight" - LGB organizations here almost never were getting much help from the West). In our language we almost not using pronouns, but our language is gendered, so you are saying sex of the person even when directly speaking to them ("you made this" will sound different depending on sex of person you are speaking to, it will be "you made-he this" or "you made-she this" [or "you made-it this" when referring to an abomination or something that can't be described or identified], announcing sex of person, it is possible to say "it was made by you", then it will be neutral speaking to any sex). It is impossible to speak to someone with "special" pronouns, because it will need to re-make every word in language. And it is hard to speak with transgenders, as every word implying their sex. However, it is possible to speak in neutral way, but people prefer not to (and mostly using it only when there those special people who demand weird changes to language, most women online are using neutral way of speaking about themselves and everyone else, to avoid sexism and prejudices).

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's easy to avoid using pronouns one-on-one, but it's much harder if you're in the workplace and you need to speak about someone else in the third person. It can be done, it just comes across as obviously awkward and unnatural.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Years ago, I attended events for Transgender Day of Remembrance, but I stopped after I left that community in the early 00s.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That seems like a worthwhile event. I don't definitely don't think all "awareness" days are bad.

What do you think of Pronouns Day?

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like it’s kind of silly, but I’m kind of in the “pronouns should be earned” camp so asking for them or telling people to use them isn’t what I think should happen. Professionally, some people do have pronouns in their email signatures or bios, but I’ve avoided doing this so far.

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I wouldn't even know it existed without twitter. Other than seeing some posts on my twitter timeline it hasn't affected me at all. In general it doesn't bother me if people do these kind of awareness days. But I do find it annoying when people say announcing your pronouns should be mandatory and if you don't you're a bad person. Most people don't even think about pronouns its just an automatic part of language usage (not to mention some languages aren't so heavily gendered). It just feels like they're over-complicating something that should be simple.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I certainly don't care if people want to do it on a voluntary basis, but I'm concerned about pronouns being mandated in workplaces or (even worse) in schools. Children are a captive audience, and adults inviting children to question their biological sex is not appropriate.

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I don't like the idea of making it mandatory. Especially if people are pushing for weird pronouns like fae and xir. Generally if I'm face-to-face with someone, I'll use whatever pronouns they want out of politeness. But its unrealistic to expect everyone else to cater to your idiosyncratic language.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Pronouns day? No. Plus you’d have to be an idiot to not know my pronouns if you saw me.

But coming out day and the trans day of visibility absolutely meant a lot to me and helped me get the courage to live.

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm glad those were helpful to you.

Plus you’d have to be an idiot to not know my pronouns if you saw me.

That's the thing. Pronouns should be obvious, but sometimes they aren't. This is why GNC women often get "theyed" without their consent, because people think it's obvious they're identifying out of being female. I do think that once hormones enter the mix, it's usually clearer. Otherwise, I'm not sure how to distinguish a trans woman from a very feminine man.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I mean that’s kind of my point. Like I am obviously born male and have developed female secondary sexual characteristics. It is impossible for someone not to know I at least don’t want to be referred to as “he”. Without hormones it would be harder to tell of course.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Makes sense. I think hormones are a fairly visible dividing line.

[–]questioningtw 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pretty much everyone in Utah would laugh at such a day.