QT, what makes recognition of your identity a right you are owed?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

Please, define what you believe rights are in general, and explain why anyone is entitled to having their identity be recognised, understood, accepted, and catered to with language.

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Obligatory not QT, but trans. I don’t really feel like some has to recognize my “identity.” Like, if I told someone I was trans and they decided to start treating me in a way I didn’t like, I’d probably just choose not to be around them. It happened a few time in my teens and I just wouldn’t be friends with those people.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

See that’s fair to me. Sensible, reasonable, mature approach to someone having different views on a subjective internal belief system.

What I don’t understand is the TRA demands that claim not prioritising someone’s identity is akin to a hatecrime or oppression, and the idea of thought policing people who don’t think of people as their preferred sex. Mental criminals I guess.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

What are rights? That's a good question. Rights when looked at from a slightly cynical angle are just Perks that a powerful part of a society decided to grant or withhold from certain people. So is anyone entitled to any right? Not really. But I think that's not what you're getting at with this question.

From a less cynical perspective rights are things society agrees to be beneficial for itself. That's how new rights get introduced. Society either adapts or risks collapse. Recently we've entered a time were one of the dominant forces for the introduction of new rights is the idea of equality. Trans people can easily argue that they want to be treated like any other normal person. Normal in this case beeing cis. Because why should they be treated differently, for a natural 1 rolled at their birth. This honestly extends to everyone. Why should anyone be treated worse in language for the circumstances of their birth?

I don't agree with everything that parts of the trans community have advocated or done in favor of this, but I don't think that the overall sentiment is wrong.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans people can easily argue that they want to be treated like any other normal person. Normal in this case beeing cis. Because why should they be treated differently, for a natural 1 rolled at their birth.

I don’t think this is true. Trans people want to be treated specifically as the sex/gender they are not. I can treat a trans person just like everyone else- but I recognize and acknowledge (when necessary) the sex of everyone else. So do trans people want to be treated like everyone else or do they want to be given special treatment in the form of everyone using preferred pronouns and accepting their (unsubstantiated) claims of being the sex/gender opposite their birth? If trans people want to be treated as “cis” people, that means we all acknowledge the sex and gender they were born with. That’s literally the opposite of what they demand.

You ask why they should be treated differently- that’s exactly what they want- different (special) treatment. They don’t want to be treated as “cis” because doing so means they get treated as what they were born, not how they claim to identify.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Normal in this case beeing cis. Because why should they be treated differently, for a natural 1 rolled at their birth. This honestly extends to everyone. Why should anyone be treated worse in language for the circumstances of their birth?

Who else is this extended to? Is there any reason other than it’s nice for the transgender person? Why are they owed niceness or pity for their issues? Who else is owed niceness/pity for struggles? Why specifically will society break down if men are called men and women are called women?

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do treat them the same as "cis" people.... of their own sex. I don' t treat them worse than any other person that belongs to their sex category.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I mean I can't force you to recognize or accept someone's identity, but if you're intentionally going to dead name and use the wrong pronoun for somebody, I won't take whatever you have to say seriously and I won't be your friend.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah good for you. That’s still not the point. The point is that we get death and rape threats or lose jobs over thought crimes and that we lose rights we had based on sex based oppression to people’s gender identities, which are idiosyncratic and subjective. (Unlike sex based oppression)

Nobody here is super sad you don’t wanna be besties. Do you have any response to the questions posed beyond not wanting to be my friend?