all 28 comments

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I can't understand your question.

I don't identify as anyone. I just am. I am myself. I can be in "very manly cloths" or looks very feminine in dress. What does this mean? Than I am non-binary or what? I can't understand what do you mean.

Are there any people who are public figures who are looking like me? I guess maybe? I don't know anyone similar to myself, they all wearing different cloths or acting differently. Just women who I am admiring and having as an example? There a lot of them - and they are starting from very masculine and ending as very feminine. I don't understand why looks should have anything to do with personality. Very masculine woman can be as very kind and empathetic and very agressive and ignorant. Same with very feminine women - they can have a range of personalities. So this question just makes no sense to me, I don't know how to answer to it, because it just makes no sense.

[–]worried19[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The question is open to interpretation, but I like your take on it. It sounds like you identify with public figures based not on outer presentation, but on inner qualities.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't identify with them, I admire them or have them as an example to aim for.

I think I only can identify with some heroines or heroes from books and some movies or TV series. Mostly with bland ones to be "self-inserted" and mostly to "imagine living that experience yourself", as in reality you live one life, but with books you can live hundreds. Sometimes heroines or heroes are very similarly acting to how I would act myself in those situations, so I can identify with them this way too, as it is almost like book or show is depicting me.

That's the only times when I "identify" with someone or as someone.

[–]worried19[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That makes sense, too. I have a feeling that's more common than not. Are there any women you do identify with in real life, or that you've ever identified with in the past?

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think it is possible at all, and in some countries impersonating is against the law.

I am not jealous person, so I see no reason to identify or imagine myself as someone else that I know or saw.

I someone said to me that they are identifying as some other person or with public person - I would recommend them to visit a therapist, as most likely they have some huge personality issues and are in a very strong distress and need help to calm down and accept themselves and reality.

If you mean "someone similar to me and achieved great results" - then looks does not matter, but the character matter. As I can change my looks and so do them. If you mean "representation of someone from same community as myself" - there a lot of bisexual women achieving great results. So it is not really an issue to me of finding representation - for lesbian women it is much worse. And both those situations I would not call with words - "identify with" or "identify as".

[–]worried19[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

For me, I have not seen people in public life who "match" in terms of gender. There are masculine women who are public figures, but no one I could point to and say is a good representation of who I am. I feel like I'm on my own in that department. I never expect to see women who look like me or present or feel as I do.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

But do you see them elsewhere? Like online?

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know. A lot of women like me are on the gender train. Those who aren't mostly don't seem to be as masculine as I am. And the ones who are extremely masculine are all lesbian, which is cool, but I can't understand their full life experience. If I had to point to a public figure who sort of resembles me in appearance and mannerisms, I'd say Abby Wambach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJr_GVeKwAY

[–]strictly 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Do you see representatives in public life who "match" you?

If you refer to clothes wearing the same type of clothes as me is relatively common in both sexes as wearing hoodies, jeans, sneakers is seen as relatively unisex. I don't wear bright colors, jewelry, make-up, skirts, dresses, or clothes that show too much skin, people say I would look "cute" if I did but I don't care. Dressing like me doesn't draw attention though.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t know. I don’t think there is anyone I’ve consistently identified with. My personal style has changed over time too as I’ve gotten older. I’m not very unique in appearance I don’t think, so there are many women who have similar styles. Pandemic life has been weird since we don’t go out like we used to or go to the office. It will go back eventually, but I feel like I spend my whole life in leggings now...🙃

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Initially, I was going to say that I feel I have things in common with people with whom I share ideas, outlook and experiences. But as for looks, I was going to say that I have never seen, nor looked for, persons in public life who "match" me physically or in presentation. Because, I was going to add, I learned long ago that other people - and the world at large - are not mirrors.

But now that I've though about it a bit more, I realize my initial response would have been a whole lot of hooey. Total bullshit, in fact.

Of course, I do very much notice other people's clothing, hairstyles and general presentation and affect - and I definitely take notice of, and initially am drawn to, people with whom I share a similar taste in clothing, hairstyles, general "look" and attitude toward "gender."

But just because I share such superficial aspects with someone doesn't mean I relate to, "identify with" or admire them as people.

Until I got old and my looks, body & health all went to hell in a big way, I was pretty happy with the looks nature gave me and my own personal sense of style - and pretty relaxed about my "gender" presentation (an issue I once believed I never gave much thought to but I now realize I was lying about). And now that I am getting close to the end of my life, I do sometimes think that if I got a chance to do life over and could choose a new body and "look," I'd go with something along the lines of these people, whose looks are different to mine yet similar in "gender" and overall style and attitude:

Chrissie Hynde in 1980: https://youtu.be/GLQRZgfASyc

Bryan Ferry in 1979: https://youtu.be/v6sosLhIcL4

Stella Tennant: https://www.vogue.co.uk/gallery/stella-tennant-in-vogue

But that's for physical looks. Clearly, my ideas about other people's looks that I think would suit me best are heavily influenced by the fact that I am am tall white woman with dark hair and "strong," sharp facial features - and that I don't have much imagination, LOL. Obviously, I really was bullshitting when for a moment I told myself I don't see other people as mirrors! Oh the lies we tell ourselves...

But that's all on the surface. When I think of he public figures I most admire, what draws me to them is the "content of their character" and the way they've lived their lives, not their looks or "gender" or personal dress and grooming style. Which brings me to public figures like these, who in no way could I ever dream of matching. I wouldn't even come close. https://youtu.be/PyfOrbO0xf4 https://youtu.be/Brp8Va8XVQw https://youtu.be/9a3PMPZakNE https://youtu.be/vU0jtxf7-vo

Also Dr. Farrokhrou Parsa:https: https://iranian.com/2005/05/09/a-woman-for-all-seasons/

And this woman: https://youtu.be/xIjzvTObzgA https://youtu.be/oVLyARq0n0I

Thanks for starting this thread, OP. You've made me think, and made me see things some things about myself I was in denial about and didn't want to see. Such as the fact that I am much more vain and attuned to & concerned about superficial appearances than I like to pretend.

Edited to add the two Joan Baez videos.

[–]censorshipment 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

🤔 well, this would be based more on personality than gender (presentation). Like I strongly identify with audacious women who speak their minds and may be considered "tacky"/controversial... such as Rosie O'Donnell, Roseanne Barr, Whoopi Goldberg, Sharon Osborne... basically, older women who give no fucks about what comes out of their mouths. I think that's very gender nonconforming since women are expected to be tactful/diplomatic, like say Barbara Walters and Diane Sawyer.

Edit: there's definitely not a famous person who looks remotely like me... not even a man really. I'm not afraid to show my face. I've already said who I am on the LGBdroptheT sub, and the TRAs have my Reddit profile tagged as a transphobe. 😄

https://www.reddit.com/r/ButchSelfies/comments/my9gel/2019_pic_2021_pics_a_face_only_my_mama_loves_lol/

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Your description reminded me about Magdalen Berns and Karen Davis.

[–]censorshipment 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yeah, I love them... but worried said public figures which I took as famous. Perhaps Sheila Jeffreys, Julia Beck, etc would count?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you mean our views on gender? If so I’d say jkr. I don’t know how else to interpret this lol

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Hmm. I'm not sure if I know of anyone who perceives their own gender the same way I perceive mine. Or someone who views gender in general the same way I do. I mean, I'm sure there are people, but no one who stands out in my mind. As much as I love Grimes, I'm so against the idea of raising my child gender neutral, letting them choose their gender. I like the idea of raising a child gender neutral in the sense of letting them enjoy whatever toys, activities and playmates they want. Someone who didn't make a big deal of gender, I would feel a little more kindred with them.

For physical appearance, I've been told I look like Florence Welch and Kristen Wiig, who look nothing alike, so maybe I look like their lovechild. I admire Alexa Chung's aesthetic and would like to think mine is somewhat similar, maybe combined with Charlotte Gainsbourg's with less denim. Even when I'm wearing jeans, sneakers and a hoodie my gender reads as a woman (at least that's how I'm treated and talked to) and I don't play with gender in my appearance or anything.

I suppose then I don't see anyone in public life who "matches" me exactly--which is neat, because how special am I then?? Go me!

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. Ha, I had to Google most of those people. You really do look like Florence Welch. I think there's a strong resemblance for sure.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t identify with people like that. People looking like me has never meant they are similar to me.

Nobody represents me other than me. Other people share values and interests and experiences but we aren’t identifying with each other. I don’t look at other autistic people and feel any connection. Other women with anorexia never felt like a group I inherently understood.

The closest I come to identifying with others is characters in fiction. Still not identifying as Olympia Binewski or anyone though.

Idk, maybe others identify with people more but I’ve never seen myself reflected in another person. They are just a whole other being that’s unknowable to me.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I actually rolled this around in my mind today, and came up blank. There are authors, actors, etc. I admire, but I've never felt like I've "matched" anyone. Interesting.

[–]questioningtw 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Hmmmmmm, There is a woman named Barbie the Welder and I kind of relate to her a lot, I really love welding and making art, and she is somewhat androgynous looking and acting!

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for sharing. I hadn't heard of her before, but she seems interesting.

I've always wanted to get into woodworking, but welding also looks like a cool hobby.

[–]questioningtw 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

No problem! She has a pretty cool youtube channel where she welds art! Welding is a lot of fun, it is pretty much sewing with fire:) I would love to take woodworking too, and glass blowing!

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

hey. I do have a problem seeing anybody I identity with in public life. I see people online, with youtube channels and stuff, that I relate to. But nothing quite in "the national life."

It's a thought. Also that there is "public life," "popular fiction and drama" and "regular life."

gnc people are there in regular life, fewer in public life and even fewer in "popular fiction and drama"

And there's gender divisions in that.

It's like that thing though about real life being certainly messier than fiction. Real life, you can walk through a city and see all kinds of things, less so on television.

Also I never quite see my "take" on gender. Is it that idiosyncratic? Maybe. Though often in these debates literally everyone has their own take, in the way that doesn't happen with sexuality. Where a lot of patterns are more agreed upon.

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think "public life" is more constricted than the other two categories. Only certain people rise to the level of public figures. Fiction and drama might be slightly more open. Regular life is the most open, but of course it depends where you live. I've only seen maybe 6 or 7 GNC women in the entire time I've been living in my current city. I've seen zero GNC natal males, aside from a trans woman I randomly came across at a restaurant.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Fiction and drama might be slightly more open.

Sure there's fiction, but popular fiction is surely more narrow?

Whether you see them in regular life probably does depend on where you live.

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It probably depends what genre of popular fiction. There are skyrocketing numbers of trans characters in popular books for kids and teenagers. If you're looking at crime fiction or westerns, the number is going to be a lot less.

[–]grixitperson 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sometimes i can relate to some aspect of some person, based on something we have in common. But i have never identified with anyone, that seems silly.

[–]grixitperson 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, i have never considered the sex or sexuality of anyone in this.