all 13 comments

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“What other words besides these can or should be used that are not so confusing?”

The truth. Biologically accurate terms. Maybe keep the term “trans” since no matter what you believe or how you feel or how well informed you may be, most people understand the concept of what trans means. I’d rather stop implying/stating that “transition” means someone has changed sex/gender, but I think maybe at this point the term itself is fine because we know what it refers to politically/socially.

The truth is always less confusing, and using accurate and honest language would mean everyone is using relevant words in the same way with the same meaning, no confusion. Literally just explain that someone has dysphoria (if that’s the case) and takes cross sex hormones, changed their name, surgeries (where and when applicable and relevant) etc

Stop using the terms “mtf” “ftm” “sex change/reassignment”, use the term cross sex hormones/hormone therapy instead of hrt,

Call bottom surgeries GRS, meaning genital reconstruction, not gender reassignment or anything similar to what that implies

We don’t need to make up more or create new terms, we should just be calling it what it truly is, that eliminates most confusion. And things that aren’t true shouldn’t be said.

And sex is observed, maybe in reference to an intersex person, it’s determined (but still determined through observation).

[–]SnowAssMan 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Obviously the ridiculous "assigned x at birth" should just be referred to simply as either 'male' or 'female'.

I guess "penile inversion" for "sex-change".

'Boy or man with a feminine gender-role preference' instead of "MtF".

"Social transition" = cross-gender self-identification phase.

"Trans-woman" = transgender man

"Trans-man" = transgender woman

[–]BiologyIsReal 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t really like those terms because I find them very misleading. “Trans woman” implies we’re talking about a kind of woman, and likewise for “trans man”. The terms “FtM”, “MtF”, “sex reassignment surgery” and “transition” imply that you can change your sex. And “gender affirming surgery” suggest that we should prioritize “gender identity” over sex.

“Sex assigned at birth” is just wrong. Sex is determined at conception and observed at birth. Though, nowadays thanks to medical technology, you can know the sex of the baby before they’re born. Talking about sex assignment only makes sense for a small portion of people with DSD (1, 2) some of which have been subjected to unnecessary surgeries and lied to about their medical history. Considering that most trans identified people are unambiguously 46, XX females or 46, XY males (3) I think it’s pretty insensitive that transactivists have appropriated this term.

As for “medical transition” related terms, I think medical terminology should reflect reality. So, I talk about exogenous hormones and surgeries. A few years ago, I’d not have minded the term cross-sex hormones that much, but given all the prevalent sex denialism, I avoid it. All sex steroids (i.e. androgens, estrogens, and progesterone) are present in both males and females, although in different levels; and you can’t change your sex by taking exogenous hormones. “Chest reconstructive surgery” is really a bilateral mastectomy. “HRT” is also, inaccurate because trans people are not taking hormones because any endocrinological problem. “Vaginoplasty” may be worst offender on the list of inaccurate terms because an inverted penis is not a vagina. Also, for “puberty blockers”, I prefer to use the name of the drug class, gonadotrophin releasing hormone agonist (GnRHa), and to explain that they result in a chemical castration.

Lastly, although this is not a term only used by transactivists, I’ve come to dislike “gender” because, I think, it has only makes things more confusing as everyone mean something different by it. For that reason, I try to avoid it and talk about sex stereotypes or sex roles instead.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transgender, transman, and transwoman all work just fine.

It’s not a sex change, call it gender affirming surgery for all I care. At least that’s honest. Sex change isn’t.

Male to female or vice versa is misleading. Man transition to transwomen. Women transition to transmen.

Assigned male/female at birth is just stupid when used to describe people who don’t have visible differences in genitalia. They aren’t assigned anything. The average persons sex is observed, not assigned, months before birth. The scans aren’t new. Doctors do not toss a coin and assign the infant male or female according to whether or not the coin lands on ‘heads’. Call it sex, add observed at birth if you need to be pedantic. Transgender individuals are being extremely insensitive and inconsiderate when they claim that they are assigned a sex when they were born with typical genitals.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

For me the only issues are assigned male/female at birth and to a lesser degree sex reassignment surgery.

You're assigned male or female at the moment of conception. You are observed by a doctor as male or female at birth. If you have a DSD that may be incorrectly observed. Sex is not something society assigned to you. It is 2 billion years old, far older than life on land. "Biological male/female" and "born male/female" are fine by me.

Sex reassignment surgery seems to make people think you can actually surgically change sex or create functional genitals. You cannot do anything of the sort. Vaginoplasty or phalloplasty are accurate. Bottom surgery is also fine - it is a surgery on genitalia.

I also notice that the term "chest reconstructive surgery" instead of "double mastectomy" is being used more and it is ridiculous. Removal of a healthy body part will never be reconstructive.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're assigned male or female at the moment of conception.

It's more accurate to say, human sex is determined at the moment of conception. Sex isn't something that nature allocates or designates the way use of the word "assign" here suggests. Best to dispense with the idea that sex is assigned altogether.

You are observed by a doctor as male or female at birth.

Not all births occur in medical settings. The vast majority of humans born over the course of history were not born in the presence of a doctor. Even in advanced medical settings today, the HCP present at birth who checks newborns' health and records essential facts like weight, height, sex and APGAR score often will be a midwife or a neonatal nurse, not a doctor.

Equally important, due to the widespread use of prenatal scanning - long a standard part of prenatal medical care throughout the world - and the increasingly common use of genetic testing especially the non-invasive test of maternal blood known as the NIPT, the sex of a majority of the world's babies is known long before birth. Decades before the NIPT became available, many women had fetal genetic testing through amnio or CVS.

Moreover, even when birth occurs in a medical setting, it's not true that when a woman gives birth the midwife or doctor call out the child's sex like Hollywood movies and TV shows suggest. The HCPs attending a birth often hand the mother her baby and let her see her child first. Or, since mirrors have long been used to allow women to see their children enter the world, many women first see their newborns' bodies - including the genitals - at the same time that everyone else in the room does. Even women who have C sections are customarily given the option of having a mirror situated overhead so they can see their babies coming out of their wombs.

Whatever the setting, and however birth occurs, observation of a newborn's sex is something all the adults present at a birth usually do, primary among them the mother.

Also, depending on the jurisdiction, parents - usually mothers, but in some places both parents, or fathers alone - are the ones responsible for registering an infant's birth with government authorities, or for signing and verifying as true the paperwork that hospitals or other HCPs/HCFs submit to government birth registries that will ultimately result in the issuance of a birth certificate. Legally, the word of an infant's parent(s) is as important - or more important - as a midwife's or doctor's word in determining whether a child is officially recorded as male or female in government documents and databases.

Shortly after birth, HCPs customarily examine, measure and do quick tests to determine whether a child seems healthy and normal. This will involve observing whether the genitals appear typical and properly developed. But the presence of male or female genitalia is something everyone attending a birth sees with their own eyes.

The claims that sex is only observed and known for certain at birth, and that observing the sex of newborns is only something doctors do overlook the realities of what women go through in pregnancy, which for many decades now has involved routine scanning. Such claims, in fact, render the women who carry pregnancies and give birth entirely invisible in the process, or at the very least sideline us and make us seem dependent on "a doctor" (a job title most people still equate with men) to tell us what's what. Even exhausted after having just gone through labor and the pain & effort of giving birth, or just having had a CS, women are fully capable of using our own eyes to see the sex of our babies, and don't need someone with a medical degree to tell us whether our newborn is male or female.

The only exception would be when a woman is given drugs to make her unconscious or out of her mind when giving birth - practices that occurred only in some medical settings in some countries decades ago, and haven't been in use for many years.

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The "assigned X at birth" bothers me. Sex is determined at conception and can't change. It seems like its mostly being used to distance people from their biological sex when they wish they were born the opposite sex. Trans-women not "assigned male at birth", they are male, and vice-versa for trans-men. Why is it offensive to acknowledge reality? Just because someone doesn't dress or behave in a way expected by society of their sex, doesn't make them not that sex.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

I've been thinking about this question for a bit and I am really having trouble coming up with terms/words that I feel would be least controversial yet still accurate. From what I understand, 'trans' just means across, but it seems like in this context people associate it with the word 'transform', so the original terms should have evoked an idea of 'crossing' the boundaries of gender or 'crossing' the boundaries of sex rather than changing gender or sex. Describing things and people as being 'cross-sex' seems like it might be OK. Anything that acknowledges biological sex seems likely to be unpopular amongst trans people and QT , just as anything implying that a person is of the other sex is unpopular with GC and trans-critical people. And no one wants to be reduced to body parts and physiology.

I'd like to think I really don't care what the terms are, but some bug me a bit like 'assigned' or 'FTM/MTF' since sex isn't assigned nor can someone become the other sex. Acronyms are nice, though, since they avoid the use of full words. I'm still uncomfortable being referred to as a man or male even if it's true, but it's only because it's never felt safe or acceptable for me to be one.

[–]grixitperson 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

trans identfied man, and trans identified woman are perfectly clear.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans woman = feminine man Trans man = masculine woman

Either you are male or you aren't. None of this assigned nonsense. Sex is easily observable.

Body modders, probably won't catch on, but people who are obsessive about changing their appearance, so much so that they will get surgery for it it seems like an apt name for them.

Transitioning = body modification

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

Trans Man-“Man of trans experience”,Trans Woman-“Woman of trans experience”

FtM- (male gender discoverer), MtF- (female gender discoverer)

Transitioning/Sex Change/Sex Reassignment- Sex Trait Alteration

[–]Juniperius 10 insightful - 9 fun10 insightful - 8 fun11 insightful - 9 fun -  (1 child)

"FtM- (male gender discoverer), MtF- (female gender discoverer)"

So, trans people are like Columbus, then? They head off in the wrong direction, accidentally "discover" someplace that many millions of people have already been living for many thousands of years, and set about renaming, enslaving, and genociding everything in sight?

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This comment made my day, LOL. Thanks.