Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women?

submitted by Penultimate_Penance from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (11 children)

It’s not always about safety. It’s just not. For some yes, in some circumstances, yes. But let’s not pretend that there are no transwomen who do it because of discomfort or out of entitlement.

Sure. I’ll give you there are bad actors in every group. But safety is the justification at core.

Put your bathing suit on under your clothes. Take your clothes off at the pool. Get in the pool. Give yourself a few minutes to dry off (these things called towels help with that), put clothes back on over bathing suit. Problem solved. You’re welcome.

They requiring showing before using the pool most places. That’s the issue.

You don’t miss out on shit. You just have to think beyond your self victimization and see that there are several simple solutions.

Okay this is pointless.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not all pools require showering, call around, find one that doesn’t. Or make a friend who has a pool or lives in a complex that has a pool, or move to a complex that has a pool, Idk but pools are not a right. You have the option, whether you feel safe taking it or not, to shower in male spaces. I understand why you wouldn’t- the option does exist, objectively.

And even if some situations don’t have simple solutions- some, many even, do. That’s my point. There are ways around a lot of these issues. And there are places you can go where you don’t have to change or be naked (like a fuck ton of places. Most places, actually). You gave three examples and only had a rebuttal for one- clearly there are some instances where there are ways around, that just require effort on your part.

There are plenty of things that vulnerable people choose not to do or feel like we can’t do because we are afraid for our safety. That’s life when your vulnerable, unfortunately. I wish it were better, but it’s not. I can choose not to go somewhere or do something because I’m afraid I’ll get hurt- I still could go, it’s me choosing not to. You could go to a pool and shower in the men’s room, you choose not to (again, I get why- but the option does exist, even if you think it’s not a viable one). That’s not us keeping you from being able to participate in public life- that’s you deciding not to do something because you feel it’s unsafe. It’s not women’s fault you feel unsafe. women literally have nothing to do with the situation other than you deciding to use our safe spaces as refuge. But when you take someone’s space against their will, you’re not in the right. So because you want to have fun, and do things that are not necessities or rights, women have to just lose their right to sex based spaces, because you don’t have unisex spaces all the time? That’s fair? Why?

Everyone should be able to live life freely and do as they please- as long as it doesn’t cause harm. But it feels like we’re now discussing whether women should have their rights or transwomen should be allowed to go swimming and to the gym and I just don’t know that I think getting your body bikini ready for the summer is enough reason to shit on the women’s rights movement.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Access to a pool, spa, or sauna is not a human right. Access to a pool, spa, or sauna is a fucking luxury.

You refuse to back up claims that transwomen are more endangered by other men than women are and then jump to acting like getting to swim in a pool is a necessity you’re being denied.

How can you possibly not see how ridiculous your arguments are?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (8 children)

Access to fitness is at minimum a substantial health concern. But it wasn’t an exhaustive list of things we can’t access anyway.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Access to a pool, spa, or sauna is what we’re talking about.

Denial access to fitness would be a statute making it illegal for you to exercise.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Facilities are more effective than home workouts.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

And this is the same as being legally not allowed to exercise how?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

Do you really want to get into the limits of bodyweight exercises as opposed to proper resistance equipment exercises? Being de facto prevented from access has the same effect of a legal ban.

If you’ll be shot if you cross a bridge, it doesn’t matter if crossing the bridge is legal.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No, I don’t give a shit about it. No ban preventing you from exercising exists, no de facto ban exists. Nobody is preventing you from being happy except you. I’m getting annoyed by this determination to be helpless. Byee

[–]Juniperius 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Don't you know no human in all time since our ancestors diverged from those of chimps was ever healthy before we invented the squat cage?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Guess I’m oppressed by dermatitis cause I can’t go in a pool without getting a rash.

It’s amazing we made it as a species when it’s physically impossible for us to move our bodies without memberships to gyms and pools and equipment.
It’s not like humans can take a walk.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Literally the lack of access to bathrooms and changing facilities does. The whole point of what we’ve been talking about. If you can’t go somewhere without violence, you can’t go there. It’s not a difficult concept.