Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women?

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I feel like it’s not that difficult to look up, the issue is you’re unwillingness to acknowledge what data would confirm.

Of course we can’t account for murders that weren’t discovered/reported, but that applies to any demographic.

And it’s kind of not both, the claim made was about male criminality, not murder specifically. I just went back and reread.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (14 children)

They said both and those stats aren’t available. The Swedish study included all crimes together including sex work, which we know increases with transition. This implies other crimes dropped but we don’t have specific data.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

So you’re saying we can’t look up how many trans people were reported murdered vs how many are murderers? Even just within a given year? Even just within a specific country?

That’s odd since I just looked up how many trans people were murdered last year in our country and got the same number on multiple sites, even pro trans sites, but I guess they’re all wrong. So fucking weird but i guess it happens.

And i think all of us can go back and see that the focus was in fact on male criminality until someone shifted to murder for some unknown reason. Murder was mentioned. Didn’t seem like the overall point imo

Either way, be it criminality in general or murder specifically, it can be verified as best as any other statistic for any other demographic can be.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (12 children)

So you’re saying we can’t look up how many trans people were reported murdered vs how many are murderers? Even just within a given year? Even just within a specific country?

No because many trans women victims get reported as being men instead of trans women.

And you can’t gaslight me. They specifically said we were more likely to kill than be killed. I didn’t shift the discussion.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

You can choose to ignore data and statistics if you want, it is accessible and the rest of us can see what’s going on.

Male criminality was the original point. My point is even if tw aren’t more likely to murder than be murdered, they retain the same level of criminality as other males. The fact remains that the data available supports Bird’s claims, and you haven’t disproved anything. you just keep saying it’s not accurate because you don’t think it is… because… reasons… Based on the info we do have, you’re less correct than Bird, and it’s on you to prove them wrong and show what you’re claiming has any real basis for being claimed. So show us. If you can’t, it doesn’t make much sense to call into question the info we do have just because you don’t like what it implies. Show us the murders of TW that are reported as men, with no inclination that they are trans so thst despite them being reported in a sexually accurate way, were someone inclined, they could add them to the tally of trans bodies (seriously I can’t imagine that none of the woke SJW’s would take it upon themselves to do this). Show us that TW have lower criminality than other males. Explain to us why some murders get reported as TW and some as men? You’re not giving us anything, you’re just telling us we are wrong because you disagree. Why would anyone take your disagreeing into consideration if you can’t back up your claims?

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My point is even if tw aren’t more likely to murder than be murdered

This is true in the UK, actually. I find it exhausting putting in effort to collect/present sources when u/circlingmyownvoid2 and every other QT participant, despite asking for them, will ignore or dismiss every source that goes against their narrative. But if you're curious:

Since the start of the Trans Murder Monitoring project in 2008 there has been on average just under 1 transgender person murdered in the UK each year.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/trans-murder-rates/

This is obviously a very biased source but you can verify each of these cases if you care to do so:

http://transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/16/trans-homicides-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers/

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh I know what you’re saying is accurate lol I’m just trying to point out that it’s absurd to deny (masks/void) what someone (you) offers proof of without backing up your reasoning for denial

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (8 children)

Well as I already said the Swedish study claims a steady criminal rate, however we also know sex work goes up through transition. As such other crimes go down.

Not that there’s much if a point since you are going to take whatever made up statistics from timsarethedevil.com over reality anyway

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not that there’s much if a point since you are going to take whatever made up statistics from timsarethedevil.com over reality anyway

You can literally google every single name on that list of trans murderers and independently verify both their crime and trans status.

Still waiting on your sources, by the way.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

Still waiting on your sources confirming trans women are as dangerous as man or that that are in fact more likely to be killers than killed.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

And this is why you don't waste your time giving QT sources, everyone.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Transpoepleruinsports.org and trans peoplearesuperevil.com the uk’s most reliable news sources.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I feel like there are reasons behind every statistic- however the statistic still exists lol. You can blame it on sex work all you want but you’ve still not provided anything but your opinion, and your opinion is just as biased as you seem to imply ours is.

I didn’t tell you what I took my statistics from but bold of you to assume. At least there’s a site backing up what we are claiming, even if it’s a silly one (there are several but for the sake of your argument let’s pretend it’s just this one). You’ve yet to offer any links. We’re just supposed to take you at your word because- I’m not exactly sure why, honestly.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

That’s a fake website I made up to illustrate the use of biased sources .

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know lol, that doesn’t negate the point I was making