Are you religious?

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

  1. If yes, what is your religion?

  2. If no, when did you lose your faith (if you did)?

  3. Do you think your religious beliefs or lack thereof inform your opinions on gender/sex/gender identity?

  4. Do you think there are parallels between religious debate and this debate?

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Raised Lutheran, left the church at about 10. This was countered with my mamas intense interest in spirituality. Ghosts, spirits, souls recycling, mediums, clairvoyance etc etc etc I abandoned that around the same age.

I have had to learn better than a lot of my church teachings regarding women. Radical feminism has been by far the most enlightening tool regarding learning beyond the Christian teachings of women.

The belief in an essential self that exists without the body is a very religious sounding premise, but I put it down to a similar disconnect experiences by many anorexic/bulimic people. All the talk of inherent identity or “feeling like a woman/man” sounds like new age quasi religious babble.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Lost it as a teenager. I thought Wait a second. Saying I believe in a book that I've never read is insane, so I read the Bible and Book of Mormon cover to cover. Turns out that's a really good way to turn into an atheist.

  2. Absolutely, I'm very wary of any woo woo beliefs, crystals, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, health scams, gender identitarianism and so on. Of course I'm not immune to being fooled, but my experience of religion has made me much more skeptical in general.

  3. It's not possible to believe men can be women magically somehow if you don't believe in a concept akin to the soul, some entity separate from your body. I'm an empiricist. It is impossible to be born in the wrong body. You are your body and there's no super extra special magical gender soul attached to it. Religion actually makes a lot more sense. At least God hypothetically could exist out there somewhere (technically I'm an agnostic atheist). Believing men can be women is such a blatant denial of empirical reality that it blows my mind that anyone took the idea seriously, let alone going so far as to allow men in women's prisons, rape crisis shelters and so on.

Edit: Typo

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. buddhist
  2. -
  3. not at all
  4. Yes, both QT and religious apologists often appeal to highly abstract philosophy to justify their beliefs. Its the only ground they have to stand on since their beliefs are so contrary to what we see in reality.

[–]grixitperson 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. no
  2. was told in school that i was a christian but never felt like one. certainly never felt the urge to pray or worship. by the time i reached highschool i realized i didn't believe at all.
  3. yes, i tend to reject appeals to religion, including trans stuff.
  4. yes. like a dominant religion, transfolk attempt to suppress opposing views.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. No
  2. I was raised by conservative Baptist parents. I can’t remember exactly when I stopped believing it, but I did and I felt bad about it and that I was disappointing them.
  3. I do sometimes wonder if being raised in a conservative and religious environment that made me feel wrong contributed to my cross-sex identification, but there isn’t any way to know and even if it did, I’m still me and I can’t make myself someone else.
  4. To me, they don’t really feel similar, but I understand some similarities when people describe them. I feel like to can seem similar to religion if the focus is believing that everyone has a gender identity that no one can see. Subjective identities shouldn’t matter to other people and the whole push to treat people based on them is really strange. I don’t feel like identities are the important part though so my beliefs aren’t similar to religious ones I don’t think. I think more about existing in the world and feel like it’s wrong demand anything from anyone based on an identity that they may not believe in or care about.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do hold a kind of faith, just not in the Catholic and Evangelical beliefs I was raised with; very much non-religious now. I lost my faith in Christianity and God gradually, I don't think I believed in any of it anymore by the time I was going into high school--it just seemed like everything I've ever done, everything I ever do, every place I've ever been, everywhere I'm going to, it's a sin.

I'd be surprised if my views on gender/sex/gender identity weren't influenced by my faith and experiences with religion and the church, though I'm not really sure exactly in what ways they have been. I think I really internalized sex stereotypes and traditional gender roles to the extent that those things informed sex rather than the other way around, but after experiencing nothing but heartache from the church, I'm so distrustful of religious institutions and put more stock in science.

I'm not really sure what the religious debate is, but much of the pro-trans and gender identity adherents seem to rely on faith or an esoteric, spiritual belief in such things, particularly when lacking scientific evidence to support such ideas. I hate the cliché, but there is something cult-like to it--but also to some gender critical spaces. Any echo chambers that discourages asking questions, challenging ideas and being open to changing minds seems decidedly cult-like, or at least like some strict religious institution.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, really. I grew up as Roman Catholic because that is the main religion where I live. Though, I would say it was more a cultural thing than a religious one. My family was/is not particularly religious, either: they are more casual (?) followers and a few atheists. As I got older I became more critical of the Church as institution and later of the concept of God (all of this was through my teen years). I'm also skeptical in general, so I don't believe in stuff like tarot, horoscope and homeopathy.

I believe in freedom of religion, but I'm wary of religious zealots and religion being involved in science and public policy. And I see many parallels between transgenderism and religion. To me "gender identity" sounds a lot like gendered souls, hate speach laws like blasphemy laws, the purity spirals like witch hunts, etcetera.

The biggest irony is that, on my country, it's religious zealots who are among the few who would openly critizes transgederism. It drives me crazy they do so while saying they believe in science... Also, they seem to think that feminists, the LGB community and trans identified people are a big happy family where everyone gets along...

[–]kwallio 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. no
  2. I was raised catholic, I dunno but I don't think I ever really believed in god. It just seemed too farfetched to me.
  3. I feel like I'm a rationalist and I am GC mostly because I feel that there just isn't any good evidence that transition actually helps anyone, and the blatantly anti-science attitudes of the TRA crowd. Hardcore radfems also have their issues with science (and scientists) which is why I don't consider myself 100% a radfem.
  4. I feel like much (most?) of trans rhetoric loops around into conservative christian/fundie religion rhetoric more often than not. The whole if you have short hair as a woman you are actually a boy/long hair you are actually a woman type of gender BS, the hard/rigid gender role adherence perpetrated by most trans, the idea that being same sex attracted is problematic in someway, the whole concept of gender seems to reflect a christian soul which I don't believe in, yes I think it does parallel religion and conservative religious attitudes towards sex and sexuality.

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Nah, I'm apathetic about religion.
  2. I was raised evangelical, but was never a true believer. I mostly just did whatever adults told me, but I didn't have a strong faith of my own.
  3. Somewhat. I was raised with the idea that God doesn't make junk, and that your body is a temple of God. Even if you don't believe in God, I still believe it's important to honor and respect your body and the bodies of others. I don't think people should mess with nature/evolution if they can help it.
  4. Definitely. Gender ideology is very much like a religious belief to me. I don't believe that special "gender souls" exist in objective reality, no matter how much certain people might say they feel them. It's a subjective experience, not an objective one. And I think with me being generally resistant to religion, that lessens my ability to believe the gender stuff.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Not applicable.
  2. I was raised Anglican, but in a family that respected reason and science. At around age ten, I tested the existence of a god by praying for a minor thing, with the full understanding that failure to deliver would result in my atheism.
  3. While I support freedom of religion, opinion, and expression, I respect only beliefs grounded in reason and science. My views on sex are based in my understanding of biology as a science. My views on gender are informed by the subjective opinions of many but must be self-consistent and evidence-based (even when that evidence is untestable subjective experiences).
  4. The main parallel for me is the ideological rigidity at the extremes of the debate.

[–]Radish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No. One, I was raised nominally Christian and rejected it. Two, I don't think I ever had "faith" to begin with. Three, I don't know that it informs my opinion directly, but both issues are because I am reality based. Four, yes, I think there are definite parallels. People get very upset when you challenge their non-reality based belief systems.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. No.
  2. Early twenties.
  3. Living through both indoctrination and deconversion has made me very sensitive to coercion.
  4. I think there are cultish elements on both sides, though it's worse and tinged with violence on the gender identity side.

I think when there is debate it's infinitely better than religious debate, from what I experienced of "apologetics" anyhow. We don't all acknowledge the same authorities, which keeps things interesting. We aren't fixated on any one book or person. If that's what you mean by "religious debate," anyhow. Debates between the religious and nonreligious are more akin to debating gender identity, and there can be something hypnotic and beautiful in both categories when done well.