About the origins of the word "gender"

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I've backed up my claims in the OP, which you chose to ignore. And I've explained my arguments since we began discussing about gender months ago. You disagreeing with me doesn't change that fact.

Worst case scenario would if we end up without words for talking about sex because we are only left with "gender identity".

[–]SnowAssMan 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

Now that's a leap in logic worthy of Judith Butler.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

How so? That is exactly what transactivists want.

[–]SnowAssMan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

And you're playing the part of an unwilling ally. AGPs are appropriating all biology-based terms, why capitulate to any degree? Giving them gender won't make them leave "biologically female" alone, as we have all seen. So your reluctance to take "gender" back is what is heading us towards that dystopia you predicted.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Gender is not a biological term, rather it's used in grammar, sociology, psychology and feminist theory. Yes, there has been an increase in scientific literature in people using "gender" and "gender differences" instead of "sex" and "sex differences". However, you can still find plenty of use of plain old "sex", meaning the biological category, not the sexual act. And, of course there are several multi-word terms that don't use gender (e.g. sexual dimorphism, sex determination, sex hormones, sex chromosomes, sex-linked inheritance, etcetera). Me not using the word gender as a synonym for sex won't change that, especially when I keep talking about why sex matters. It's transactivists who are trying to make sex to be unspeakable.

[–]SnowAssMan 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

What should happen to all the terms that have 'gender' in them: gender-roles, gender identity, gender inequality etc? You say 'gender' isn't a biological term & that only 'sex' is. Are the aforementioned terms referencing biology? If you say "sex-roles" instead of "gender-roles", is 'sex' no longer a biological term? What's the difference between "sex" & "gender" within the gender-role vs. sex-role comparison?

Then there are terms like "gendered behavioural patterns", "feminine gender-role preference", "gender non-conformity", "cross-gender conformity". "feminising gender indicators" "gendered language" – can the word "sex" really do the job?

Everyone was saying "gender" instead of "sex" before transgenderism arrived on the scene. So if the word isn't to blame, why do you think disposing of it will solve the problem?

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I think MT has provided elsewhere with good alternatives that can be used, and have used indeed, insteas all those "gender" based words. There is no need to act like if it were impossible to talk about sexim and misogyny without using the word "gender". The only one who doesn't have a good alternative is "gender identity", but I don't think I've seen anyone else who is not on the QT side who is fond of the word.

Everyone was saying "gender" instead of "sex" before transgenderism arrived on the scene. So if the word isn't to blame, why do you think disposing of it will solve the problem?

I think is part of the problem, not the only problem.

[–]SnowAssMan 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

The fact that there is no difference between "gender-roles" & "sex-roles" reveals that 'sex' & 'gender' are synonyms, even within feminism, making the distinction illusory. No one even says "sex-roles" anymore. If you look up "sex-roles", most of the info is on reproductive roles. It's unrealistic & unnecessary to try to turn back time & change "gender-roles" back into "sex-roles".

The only one who doesn't have a good alternative is "gender identity"

So the only terms the role-players use: gender identity, misgender, transgender, will remain unchanged? Then what difference does it make to "favour sex over gender", when every use of the word "gender" (& the frequency of its use) remains unchanged?

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

The fact that there is no difference between "gender-roles" & "sex-roles" reveals that 'sex' & 'gender' are synonyms, even within feminism, making the distinction illusory. No one even says "sex-roles" anymore. If you look up "sex-roles", most of the info is on reproductive roles. It's unrealistic & unnecessary to try to turn back time & change "gender-roles" back into "sex-roles".

Says the guy who want we adopt his personal definition of "gender identity".

So the only terms the role-players use: gender identity, misgender, transgender, will remain unchanged? Then what difference does it make to "favour sex over gender", when every use of the word "gender" (& the frequency of its use) remains unchanged?

What?! Stop being disingenuos, Snow. Even if you disagree with me, you should know by now I regard terms like "gender identity", "trans gender" and other are only usefull for people who believe in this stuff. I don't, so I don't use them. They certainly should be used a lot less.

[–]SnowAssMan 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Says the guy who want we adopt his personal definition of "gender identity".

You're mixing me up with Lawrence Kohlberg, you know, the guy who coined 'gender identity'. Oh wait, you didn't know that, even though I've reminded you on several occasions?

Again, what purpose does replacing "gender" with "sex" have, if you don't actually replace gender with sex in any of the examples where "gender" is used by TRAs?

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Everyone was saying "gender" instead of "sex" before transgenderism arrived on the scene.

No we weren't.

Some people started saying "gender" when they meant "sex," and that helped open the way for transgenderism to take hold amongst the elites and the spread amongst the general population.

[–]SnowAssMan 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How on Earth did using the word "gender" as a synonym for sex "help open the way for transgenderism"?

Again, gender has always been a synonym for sex. It's only 2nd wave feminist theorists who decided that the two words should refer to different things based on what Stoller said. Transgenderism doesn't use either of those definitions, but if the ideology exploited anything, it's the feminist insistence that gender & sex are not synonyms. Every time you insist that gender & sex not be treated as synonyms you help the transgenderist cause.