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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd like to offer another perspective on some of these points.

nothing more than baby makers, who cry and like pink glitter, who only care about adornment and home making.

I would consider denigrating work that has been historically associated with women, and which biologically can only be performed by a women ("babymaking"), as a form of misogyny.

I do not think there is a more valuable work in all the world than these things you've described. What is the measure of the wealth of a people? "GDP", perhaps? Money? The number of livestock? No, imo: It's children. There is nothing more valuable in the world than a well-made child, and there is no-one in all the world who can accomplish that except for women.

And what is a key aspect of raising a child? Cultural values, traditions, stories. An understanding of where they have come from, of history, of what they can expect in life as they mature and take on the duties required to continue their surviving and thriving. A healthy, clean, nurturing, stimulating, uplifting, inspiring environment. You know, just "adornment" and "home making". Again, I know women have been taught that we should aspire to "more" than this, but again I think this is a form of misogyny that has crept into pro-women spaces. These things are profoundly important, and they are also things our formothers have taken care to do for us.

If we want to enable women to be able to live lives that are not under the control of a man they are dependent on and can't escape in (unfortunately all-to-common) cases of abuse, let us do that directly, rather than denigrating women's work as some proxy for that.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Women do not naturally want to be nothing more than baby makers, who cry and like pink glitter, who only care about adornment and home making. This is all a social construct.

Well now that's a lie. Normal women want to have children, there's no doubt about that. The part about glitter is a dishonest argument, known as an absurd absolute.

An absurd absolute is a restatement of the other person's reasonable position as an absurd absolute. For example, if your point is there is high crime in Detroit, the absurd absolute would be your debate opponent saying something such as "So, you're saying every person in Detroit is a criminal." When your debate opponent recasts your opinion to include an "absolute" word, such as every, always, never, all, completely, universally, and the like, you are seeing cognitive dissonance.

Some people call what I just described a strawman argument. But a strawman argument refers to any sort of inaccurate recasting of your opponent's argument. That is the generic case. I'm referring to a specific strawman argument that uses an absurd absolute. When your debate opponent recasts your point as an absurd absolute, you won the debate. That's as far as you can go.

-- How to Know You Won a Political Debate on the Internet

Of course normal women want to have children. Why else the withering hostility towards motherhood? This is the key:

"No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children...because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one."

-- French feminist Simone de Beauvoir

[–]nonpenishaver 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"Women do not naturally want to be nothing more than baby makers"

"Well now that's a lie. Normal women want to have children"

I don't think you realize that these 2 statements don't mean the same thing.

[–]Chipit 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The full quote: "Women do not naturally want to be nothing more than baby makers, who cry and like pink glitter, who only care about adornment and home making. This is all a social construct."

She took a bunch of lies, mixed them with the truth, and called it all a lie. "Women naturally want to have children" becomes "nothing more than baby makers". This sort of dishonest argument is all over the place in feminism, and they get away with it because nobody is allowed to argue back.

Well, that's about to change, bigtime.