all 14 comments

[–]medium_tomato 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I hate that feminists are constantly told that they must fight for black people and trans in their feminism movements but I never once have seen BLM mention the struggles of women, even just black women, and never have I seen trans women speak up for actual women's issues.

You can support black people, lgb, and women's issues without them having to step on each other (or rather just women's issues).

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think "BLM" does support women a lot, actually. I believe its founders were Black women. Have you read their "what we believe" statement? Or are you talking about more on-the-ground what people actually do?

We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable. [mentions mothers but not fathers]

Although yeah, I don't actually see anything on there for specifically for black "women". Maybe you're right actually.

[–]minipancakes 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with what your saying especially since it seems as if the majority people within both of these movements focus mainly on men and people who are transgender. I can only speak for the black community and reality is that most black people offline don't usually agree with a lot of the issues that "woke" people bring up such as abolishing prisons or the police force. We just need a reform that protects black women, black men, black lgbt's and children from police brutality and discrimination in the workforce.

[–]gparmesan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

you may enjoy The Madness of Crowds by Douglas Murray on this topic, very relevant

[–]Barber_Acrobatic 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm literally reading this right now. I'd seen him have a couple of interesting discussions about the whole 'gay', 'black', 'woman' etc. categorisations being seen as informing political/social/moral traits and decided to give it a read. So far it's definitely making me think, and even though I'm not agreeing with everything* so far it's worth the money. *given how I swallowed the trans stuff for so long hook line and sinker it's honestly a bit of relief to know that I'm not just swinging wildly to the right as I still retain a lot of my left leaning principles.

[–]gparmesan 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yep. I went in knowing I wouldn't agree with it all but I no longer give a fuck about that stuff after watching the purity spiral overtaking multiple parts of the left right now.

[–]Barber_Acrobatic 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly I think not agreeing is a good thing and it's something we've forgotten how to do. I'm trying to seek out more stuff that I may clash with but take something useful from. That is to say, the sane parts of the right, I don't think I could draw anything from incel culture other than a general feeling of hopelessness.

The way he phrases and categorises things is excellent. If anything it goes to show how important terminology, the whole concept of moral purity is an idea I've definitely discussed with friends but lacked the short punchy summary to get the initial point across.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly I think not agreeing is a good thing and it's something we've forgotten how to do. I'm trying to seek out more stuff that I may clash with but take something useful from.

Yeah I saw my mother non-chalantly do this the other day and honestly it surprised me to see like, I didn't know people could just say "hmm that's interesting" and then "I don't think I agree with that part". It is like I'd forgotten.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Do you think this is an organically emerging phenomenon? I was thinking it was looking like an intentionally created marxist/commie/bolshevik/whatever you want to call it phenomenon.

[–]gparmesan 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly, I don't know, and I'm not sure which is worse- the useful idiots from my circle of well-meaning liberal acquaintances, or an actual purposeful malicious plot. Just watch the evolution of BLM into "black trans lives matter" makes me crazy- I can't tell if this was a wedge put there by an outside force, or a result of people chasing more woke points by upping the ante/level of oppression.

[–]floaker 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've been confounded by that, too. I think it's people chasing woke points. I have a friend on FB who is lesbian. Last year she was all about lesbian pride and in the last couple of months she's gone black trans lives matter. She's not black or trans. She's a lesbian! It's just nuts. A lesbian carrying water for men. Mind boggling.

[–]Sun_bear 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Lesbophobia is a branch of misogyny, hence it is included within feminism. Misogyny ultimately boils down to men wanting control and dominion over the female reproductive capacity, and the hatred of lesbians stems from the same impulse. That's why lesbophobia is so often expressed by vile acts such as 'corrective rape'. Some women just aren't attracted to men, I don't know why you wouldn't believe this.

[–]aldoushuxleyghost 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly I'm loathe to compare women's struggles with BLM or African American history. Since it's its own thing. However I think you make a good pt that there are similarities. I agree to some extent. Though early feminism (up to wave two) was on point and pushed through positive change that we get to take for granted (pants!). Since then not so much.