all 11 comments

[–]Lyssa 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I've lived in Sweden for a while and they have lots of really large single stall unisex toilets (with proper walls, very private) with all kinds of facilities (place to change babies, handles for wheelchair users, condoms and tampon dispensers...) to accomodate everybody. Never experienced this as a problem. More like a luxury in fact. This setting is mostly used in restaurants, cafes etc. where traditionally there would hardly be space for two seperated tiny, tiny separate sex bathrooms and the wheel chair users had been left out, just like anybody who needed to change a baby.

Classic barely walled off common facilities for everybody: not my cup of tea and would not want that in schools etc. either. I hardly feel comfortable using those with other women.

Locker rooms should offer a separate small room for anybody trans (e.g. separate facilities for the disabled or adult coaches of kids, most gyms have something!). I understand trans women/trans identified males not wanting to shower and change with men, especially if they have transitioned medically (partly of fully). But I als don't want the pre-op and the dangerous ones in the women's and since there is no way to tell the difference between the save and the dangerous post-ops a different solution must be found.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Except men like to install cameras in unisex bathrooms, if not out and out assault women. That may be a lot less likely to happen in Sweden, where the men seem almost sane, but here in the USA it'd be an unmitigated disaster, and probably in the UK as well.

[–]1352DogwoodAvenue 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I heard it was different in Europe, but in America it's really rare to find bathroom stalls with actual walls or partitions that run floor to ceiling with no cracks.

There's even an embarrassing lack of privacy around other women sometimes, when the toilet seat is sometimes about even level with the bottom of the stall.

[–]DifferentAirGC 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Make a separated single-stall room, it will be for TIMs, TIFs and any gender specials, they are less than 1% of the population, that should be enough.

[–]DangerJelly 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

At my uni in the new science building they built a new "gender neutral" bathroom where all the stalls are just small little rooms that are completely walled off with lockable doors, but I've never felt like using it. However if that was my only option... I guess it would do. For locker rooms, either making changing areas like that (separate small rooms with locking doors) and discouraging/prohibiting full nudity outside of there (like it's one thing to change a pair of pants quickly or throw on some clothes over top of a bathing suit, but if you actually want to remove the thing you go into one of those rooms). Or having a third single-stall bathroom without a gender signifier on it- given how few people are trans in the population I feel like that wouldn't be too much of a problem. I'm also more than willing to bet a well-passing trans woman has used the women's bathroom with me before and I just never noticed. I don't understand why they're making a big deal out of it that way. I understand as this movement gets bigger and the rules looser it attracts more creeps, and I am worried about that, but I sort of feel like there are TIMs who aren't making a big deal of it, if that makes sense? Like either they were in the stall and then left while I was in the stall, or they came in after me, or I just didn't look closely at the sinks, or whatever, and they didn't make a big fuss, just peed and left. I don't have an issue with that. But my mom and I have both had experiences of being in large women's washrooms alone and having someone come in and use the stall next to us with their feet facing the wrong way and been too scared to say or do anything. I hate that I can't talk about my fear of that being more common as self-ID becomes more of a thing. Maybe those were just men who used the closer bathroom, maybe they were just confused, or maybe they didn't care, maybe they get off on making women feel uncomfortable or are power tripping. Also don't understand why TRAs say they want to get away from men in the washroom but then say that bathrooms should be unisex or push for self-ID. like... women don't want men in the bathroom either, but you're making it easier, so what the fuck? Also tbh I just hate using bathrooms men use because men are absolutely fucking disgusting. Near my lab there are two single-occupancy washrooms and sometimes the SMELL or the not-flushing or even just the KNOWLEDGE that men aren't washing their hands, the seats left up, the piss on the seat... it doesn't have to happen that often for it to be annoying. Not to say I haven't encountered some of those issues in women's bathrooms, but not nearly as often.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Third restroom for anyone who would not fit in well to the single-sex restrooms. This would encompass not only trans people but also, say, an adult with an opposite-sex child in their charge or a disabled person with an opposite-sex carer. Make it a single-toilet room and have space for an adult changing table (there should be adult changing tables in the single-sex multi-stall rooms too).

They're, what, not even five percent of the population? And despite their invocation of "non-binary" people, a lot of enbys just use the restroom that matches their actual sex anyway. So that's not likely to be an issue.

[–]Jamiethiel2018 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Remodelled bathrooms do seem workable on the surface, though hard to see if someone is unwell or in danger. Would love to know if the enclosed walls are also a threat since it's easier to trap & hide in there. We really need research.

When it comes to hospitals, rape crisis centers, homeless shelters & hostels, I would ask for a 3rd space. It'll take time & effort, but perhaps, say big pharma could chip in.

This would be so much easier if one could discuss it, in good faith.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Third spaces. Self-id emboldens every creep and pervert who may or may not be trans to trespass in women's spaces. Hidden cameras are unfortunately a huge issue in a lot of countries. It's a porn-sick world. I was checking in on reddit today at gc guys and clicked on one of the links that were used to compare GC's ban to the misogyny ones. Let's just say I needed lots of kittens and puppies eyebleach after seeing what looked like a hidden cam pic of a naked woman in the bathroom uploaded by her son? and straight up genitalia everywhere. Didn't even scroll down more than five posts. Gender neutral bathrooms are also more dangerous which a study showed, a newspaper covered the topic.

[–]jelliknight 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Single stall 'multi-use' bathrooms, in addition to sex-segregated bathrooms. These could be used by parents with young kids, people who appear to be the opposite sex (DSD, butch women, or effeminate men) or anyone who for any reason doesn't feel able to use the sex segregated rooms.

Another compromise I've seen is where all the bathrooms are single stall and open directly onto a public, well trafficked area. For example, as a park the might be 6 'gender neutral' stalls, each containing a toilet, sink, mirror, and sanitary bin, and all opening directly onto the park so there's no secluded area in between. This is more expensive overall and less efficient but it solves the other bathroom inequality with women having fewer facilities than men and ending up with a bigger line.