The problem I have with transwomen is that they keep trying to speak FOR women

submitted by uglyelephant121 from self.GenderCritical

I used to be a TRA, until I started getting introduced to Gender Critical ideology. It truly opened my eyes to see how much transgender ideology re-enforces gender roles and traditionalist values, while playing off of people's mental illness and insecurities. It opened my eyes to see how destructive these transgender surgeries are and how little it makes sense to 'identify as' anything.

I understand all of this, and I hear trans people claim that they want to just live their lives as their 'true selves.' And if they were telling the truth, maybe I wouldn't have a problem with grown adults over the age of 25 mutilating their own bodies while understanding all of the risks and still choosing to do so (I can never support children and teens transitioning before their brains are fully developed). But it's never just that. They always want MORE. You give them an inch and they take the whole damn mile. I'm so sick of seeing 'women' like Blaire White and ContraPoints speak FOR women as if they can say what women feel or want or think on certain issues. To make matters worse, a lot of these TiMs try to tell actual WOMEN how to THINK.

I feel enraged when I see Blaire White, ContraPoints, and other TiMs have the audacity to sit there all dressed up like a blow-up doll or drag queen and act like they are entitled to speak on WOMEN'S issues, pushing sexist ideas, ideologies, and people. And these TiMs are on all sides of the spectrum. You have 'tradwife' TiMs who believe that they are God's gift to humanity for adhering to conservative gender roles and acting how they think a woman 'is supposed to behave.' They are advocating to ban abortion, birth control, and police a women's chosen career field, as it's not 'a woman's place.' You have the TiMs who dress like strippers and flipping their hair over their shoulders and harassing ACTUAL women because they think they're 'hotter than cis girls.' These types usually love to pander to MRAs and incels and feel MEN are the truly oppressed class.

I could seriously go on and on, but it just disgusts me how men dressed up as a mockery of women think they have the right to tell WOMEN how we should think, feel, and behave, while speaking FOR us as if they represent us.

EDIT: I suppose I didn't make myself clear. I am not specifically talking about Blaire White and ContraPoints. They are just 2 minor examples of my broader point to address this phenomenon in a general scope. There are dozens of other TiMs out there who do far worse than Blaire White and ContraPoints; those are only 2 examples of this phenomenon. Sorry for the confusion.

Edit 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/terfisaslur/comments/ho1nwi/i_just_dont_have_words_supreme_female/ This is just a yikes from me.

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[–][deleted] 55 insightful - 2 fun55 insightful - 1 fun56 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I think they're not trying to talk for us-- they're trying to silence us.

For example, they're micro-targeting many of the very subs and accounts on reddit that discussed women's issues-- domestic violence, sexual assault, etc.. Transactivists seem to be the biggest proponents of deliberately attacking us, along with left wing MRAs. They're allowing the so-called "feminist" subs to remain which allowed men to harass, attack, dismiss women. These same subs have misogynistic women and transwomen posing as women as well-- so any threads regarding domestic violence, rape, etc., will be littered with tons of ridiculous comments aimed at shutting women down.

[–][deleted] 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

^ All this. They want to silence and replace us.

[–]sisterinsomnia 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or at least they are trying to force everyone to define "woman" as just a bundle of sexist stereotypes or retrogressive female sex roles. Nothing about the female biology is allowed in that definition, because trans women don't share that biology.

So every single natal woman who "identifies" as a woman because she lives in a female body and experiences what that means has now been forcefully de-gendered, perhaps even transed. Some people's gender identities are respected while the "gender identities" of probably billions of natal women are not allowed at all. That is the new inclusiveness.

[–][deleted] 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The pink and blue in the trans rights flag says it all. It encapsulates their whole ideology.

[–]VioletRemi 22 insightful - 5 fun22 insightful - 4 fun23 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Central white line is the Abyss. Pink is women, blue is TRA, and they are pushing women to Abyss from all sides.

[–]CaliforniGinger 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Central white line is the Abyss. Pink is women, blue is TRA, and they are pushing women to Abyss from all sides.

Oh, thought provoking!

[–]crodish 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

I'm kinda a fan of BW - they're "the wrong kind of trans" that they at least acknowledge their biological sex as a male, that transition doesn't change that, dysphoria is their method of coping, we don't have entirely the same experience, etc. The way they speak in their videos also seem pretty rational and well-thought out, and they do bother to do their whole research on something at least and often try to present both points of view. I've heard some stuff about them being misogynistic and maybe a couple occasions where they might have "spoken for women", but on the whole they're sensible. I don't really care about their appearance as long as they're happy with who they are.

The real TRA I have an issue with are the ones you see all over Twitter and the like, who keep insisting TWAW and that trans women rights are also women's rights because TWAW because ad infinitum. Or worse, just straight up men who do that, too. But it really riles me up whenever people go, "wHaT MaKeS JKR qUaliFieD to SpEaK aBouT TraNsPeoPle" like shut up, she's talking about HERSELF and HER rights as a woman! But the TRA always have to be the center of everything, so

[–]uglyelephant121[S] 29 insightful - 2 fun29 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

I miss GC because at least GC knew to call men 'he/him' instead of tiptoeing around with 'they.' You have good points that Blaire seems to be a more rational TiM, but as I wrote above, 'How do you miss Blaire's numerous videos on 'feminism is cancer' and making fun of radical feminists? How do you miss all the pro-MRA videos Blaire has put up? If you only pay attention to Blaire's videos on transgender people, yes, he'd seem like a reasonable TiM. But you'd have to ignore all of his anti-women videos to come to that conclusion. At the end of the day, Blaire is a man and I feel disgusted that he feels the right to degrade women and radical feminists while propping up men and the alt right.' I get because he passes well (only due to favorable angles/lighting) it is easy to forget he's not a woman and I've even accidentally referred to him as 'she,' but as I said in the previous sentence...

[–]crodish 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I know there're people here who'll disagree and insist on calling Blaire a he, and that's fine, and you (and anyone who wants to) can do that. I'm just using them/they on my own accord. As long as we know we're talking about the same person!

I'll admit I've only watched their trans-related videos to date, so I can't quite say. I'll have to go back and have another look.

Edit: I've gone back and watched maybe 4-6 videos about BW talking about their views on feminism (especially the "do not 'believe all women'" one, "feminism is pointless" and "'crashing' a feminist party" (where all they did was... walk around and respectfully interview people? no trolling or rudeness at all, although the people they interviewed kinda spoke for themselves lol) and I can't really say I disagree with what they said? Hate the clickbait titles though that are definitely there to incite anger. BW admitted that terrible shit does happen to women, and you should absolutely support the people who come to you with it. But that it's also important to hear out both sides and getting as full a picture as possible before blindly jumping to or reaching conclusions, especially if it comes to celebrity cases and people you aren't close to. Basically the same strategy they do with all their other issues. I definitely don't like hearing that "you should consider that women can be abusers and liars too", but I can't deny that stuff like that has happened, even if only very rarely. There's always extremes to every group.

Edit 2: Of course I don't take their views as them speaking on behalf of women (plus the whole not a woman = can't be a feminist thing), they're just stating their own opinion from a trans woman's perspective.

[–]uglyelephant121[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Of course I don't take their views as them speaking on behalf of women (plus the whole not a woman = can't be a feminist thing), they're just stating their own opinion from a trans woman's perspective.

Me neither, but it's ironic that a man is going to try to tell women how we should live our lives. But because he's dressed as a woman, libfems and others think it's A-OK. It's a bit of hypocrisy. (note: I'm not talking about Blaire White in the first 2 sentences of this comment. Blaire isn't the point of my post if you go back and read it. I'm talking about the phenomenon of TiMs who do that.) Also, you can call Blaire whatever pronouns you want. Call Blaire xey/xem if you please. You're on a gender critical sub and Blaire is a male at the end of the day. Ultimately, I don't care if you prefer to call Blaire they/them. I just think it's a little ironic to do so in a sub like this. But that's just my opinion and you of course are entitled to do what you please.

Besides, it seems you managed to skip a couple paragraphs and just focus in on the words 'Blaire White' and forget everything else I wrote? Maybe you saw the words 'Blaire White,' skipped the rest of my post, and went straight to the comment section to defend him? Blaire White is hardly even the point of my post. He's just one of several examples I was using to make my point.

[–]crodish 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Alright. Thanks.

[–]Anonimouse 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Other than "live and let live" type comments, when has Blaire told people how to live their lives?

[–]Sebell 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Not the op of this thread, but one of the things I disliked about GC is the "HE!" comments all the time. (Mods i love you please don't ban me for saying this I'm not a troll).

Look - I 100% understand the philosophy. I fully respect the reasoning, I'll fight for people's rights to misgender (accidentally or philosophically), but it's one of those middle-of-the-road things where I ... I just don't care about pronouns. I have been using they/them for 20 years for both men and women when, in context, the sex of the person in the story isn't central to the story.

I totally get when you can be prosecuted or arrested for misgendering - it becomes much more critical (UK, looking at you). I'm safe in my "MAH FREE SPEACH" American bubble - free speech is a hill Americans WILL DIE ON. I know others aren't as lucky.

The really angry HE HE HE! types of posts actually scare me off and make me not want to participate. And I had more than 10k in karma from GC comments ;)

[–]venecia 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah don't worry, I'm right there with you. I think people on this new site are a bit more relaxed about there not being any particular dogma as to HOW anti-TRA you have to be. I don't use words like Tim/Tif but I understand why others do. I think removing downvotes on saidit (+ the shock of having our sub deleted!) has really enhanced our unity. I don't see nearly as many comments lecturing others for using the wrong words or being more moderate in their views :)

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can you link me a few of those many anti women videos because I follow Blaire and seem to have missed those.

[–]CaliforniGinger 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed.

[–]Asplenium 24 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Blair also commented on a post by a woman saying how she hated men (for context the woman's brother had just been stabbed to death, by men ofc) to say "sounds like you just need some dick tbh". But sure, he is such a nice rational woman that deserves special pronouns. Women always tell other grieving women that some dick will cure them being sad about having family members brutally murdered 🙄

[–]crodish 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Ah yeah that one I saw, definitely not a smooth move ):

Why are people here as equally obsessed with what pronouns I choose to address a person with on here? How is it different from what the TRA are forcing us to do? I'm fully aware Blaire is a biological male, but presenting as a trans woman. I'm not forcing others to use they/them or she/her.

inb4 handmaiden

[–]SameOldBS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm with you on BW. Came out in support of JKR, I seem to remember.

[–][deleted] 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Totally agree. If women aren't a biological sex, then what are we? With trans/gender ideology, we are just a bunch of sexist stereotypes and men get to decide and define who we are.

This isn't progress, it's backwards. One of the goals of feminism is to allow women and girls to do and be anything they want, not this idea that they need to fit into a box. And, by trying to erase biological sex, we can't even name sexism. If sex doesn't exist, then sexism can't exist either.

[–]sisterinsomnia 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This. Also, if "woman" is not a biological sex but a gender identity, why would there even be such a thing as women's rights? If that identity is based on purely femininity and femininity includes submissiveness and passivity and emotionalism, what would even be wrong with not promoting women to leadership positions at work?

[–]RestingWitchface 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I kind of feel like gender ideology is an extreme version of "girls can be anything they want to be". Now "anything" includes actually becoming a "man". People can't tell the difference between biology and stereotypes anymore.

I had this conversation with a friend recently, and she just could not grasp what I was saying. She kept saying "but if you define women by they're biology, you're saying that women are inferior to men and should only aspire to be mothers and have babies!". No no no no.

Women are physically smaller and weaker than men (on average), and can give birth. Those are biological facts. The idea that women are inferior because of this fact, or that women should only give birth is a regressive gender norm.

We need to start separating out the facts from the gender nonsense.

[–]VioletRemi 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

"girls can be anything they want to be"

It feels more like "girls can be anything from this two: be stereotypical feminine or be a man".

[–]Apricot_Ibex 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Here’s a sampling of how I’ve seen TIMs “speak for women” online, within just this week:

“Radical feminists are man haters worse than the way MRAs hate women.” Spoken like a true dude.

“Radical feminist subs must be shut down because they hate porn and want to control people’s sexuality. There is nothing wrong with the porn industry. They’re insane.” Again, spoken like a true porn addicted misogynistic dude.

“If black women can be considered women, then transwomen are definitely women too [paraphrased to be slightly less offensive].” Wtf?! I just posted about this one.

“I’m not a feminist because cis women are saying ‘I’ve got mine, now fuck you’ to trans women. They can’t claim hundreds of years of oppression that they didn’t even personally experience. Oppression is over for women.” Oh really, SIR?

[–]WrongToy 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

Blaire dragged ContraPoints over their "transition" (CP was identifying as some sort of nonbinary at that time). I've never heard them to drag women over abortion or PCOS or any other women's issue. Blaire is a pre-op and BW stays in their own lane about this (besides the restroom).

Honestly if I hadn't seen Blaire on Yaniv I wouldn't know who they were. If I saw them in the restroom (besides that I know who BW is) it'd be a "tree falls in the forest does anyone hear it" kind of thing.

[–]uglyelephant121[S] 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

How do you miss Blaire's numerous videos on 'feminism is cancer' and making fun of radical feminists? How do you miss all the pro-MRA videos Blaire has put up? If you only pay attention to Blaire's videos on transgender people, yes, he'd seem like a reasonable TiM. But you'd have to ignore all of his anti-women videos to come to that conclusion. At the end of the day, Blaire is a man and I feel disgusted that he feels the right to degrade women and radical feminists while propping up men and the alt right.

Also, I wasn't only talking about Blaire White or just Contrapoints. That's why I added 'and other TiMs.' It's something that's in a lot of communities online by several trans individuals.

[–]WrongToy 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm not saying Blaire is a woman. I'm saying they wouldn't pose an extant threat like 90 percent of TIMs because, well, they pass in the bathroom and they're not doing any of that "I have TAMPONS in my purse if ANYONE NEEDS" BS.

[–]uglyelephant121[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The point of my post was calling out men dressed as woman for speaking for and on women's rights issues as if they are women. Blaire White is one of them and so are several others.

[–]Anonimouse 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But Blaire has never really claimed to be a woman. So, is the speaking out any different to any of the other hundreds of videos responding to something else on the net?

[–]Anna_Nym 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it matters, though, how open a transwoman is about their biological maleness. I am totally fine with men speaking about women's issues and feminism, especially now that I've seen how quickly and easily identity politics devours communities. We are all living in this world together; we are all affected by social norms and policies; we all have a right to comment and have opinions on issues.

That said, of course, I'm going to judge how a person talks about issues slightly differently based on how much skin in the game they have. So Blaire talking about feminism from a transwoman's perspective on her personal social media channels... totally fine to me. If Blaire claimed to be a woman and to have grown up as a girl, that would be appropriation.

[–]uglyelephant121[S] 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Just a couple years ago, Blaire was extremely popular in the anti-feminists community. If you go to YouTube and enter 'Blaire White feminism,' you will see several anti-feminist, pro-MRA videos pop up. Not to mention the alt right videos. He has not renounced any of his views just because he's shifted focus to easier targets. Do you not see the irony behind a man denouncing feminism and propping up MRA's while claiming he's a woman?

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They give themselves away, even though they don't intend to. I think them denouncing feminism and acting like MRA's is either their subconscious/male socialization kicking in or its intentional.

I've never seen any TIM who cares about women's rights. But I've seen tonnes trying to dismantle women's rights. If they really believed they were women, then why wouldn't they help liberate women...

[–]Sebell 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have seen TIMs who care about women and women's rights - they even started a meeting group called "New Narratives". They were harassed, threatened, attempts to DOXX, cancel, get them fired from their jobs - the TRAs use threats of violence to put fear in the minds of anyone who disagrees with them. They could only get 8 transwomen to come:

https://newnarratives2014.wordpress.com/

Snowflake Especial is worth reading too. But she's stopped posting. I hope she's ok - I feel she was probably burned out or had real life events to focus on:

https://snowflakeespecial.tumblr.com/

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, NATALT. Uh huh.

[–]PostmodernJukebox 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

since when does blaire white talk about womens issues? i thought she mostly stuck to drama and the trans community like the whole charge against jonathan yaniv.

[–]Irascible-harpy 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Is there a reason you use female pronouns for Blair White?

[–]PostmodernJukebox 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

idk it just feels weird to call her a him. she isnt some random chad trying to break into a changing room by throwing on a dress and actually seems to be decent so...it just feels fine i guess.

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He. That is a man.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They think that they do women better than we do but they behave exactly like men because they were born male, socialized and grew up as male.

They have no idea what a women’s life is truly like.