Wars with slogans and how we lost so much ground because of it. A plan to counter attack.

submitted by NeedMoreCoffee from self.GenderCritical

Women have a place in women's sports. Girls get privacy in women's locker rooms. Woman are protected in women's shelters. Right?

This is why the constant perpetuating of the slogan "Trans women are women" is so effective and dangerous. People who have not looked into this whole mess too deeply just think "yes women belong in women's sport". This is so logical. And if trans women are women, yes they belong in those places.

I think it is time we fight the same way. That we dismantle their slogan every single time it is posted.

If every time you see "trans women are women" and it's followed with "Trans women are men with a mental disorder called gender dysphoria. Women need protection." That is starting a brand new narrative.

Men with mental disorders have no room in women's sport. Men with mental disorders should not be in locker rooms with naked girls. Men with mental disorders should not be in shelters with vulnerable women. It is completely crazy to say anything else.

So I propose we start doing this on grand scale. Every single time that slogan is posted it needs to be responded to with "trans women are men with a mental disorder called gender dysphoria. Women need protection." No insult, no rudeness, just short and simple facts. Let them kick off and insult you, just stay short and polite. We women can service with a smile, we are taught that. So lets fight with a smile and change the narrative.

What do you say ladies and gentlemen? Does this sound like a plan?

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[–]materialrealityplz 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I might change that to "transwomen are males with gender dysphoria" or something even shorter, idk.

Try to make it short. 'transwomen are women' is short and sweet and catchy. A long sentence isn't going to have the same effect.

[–]Sun_bear 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What about Transwomen are dysphoric males?

[–]StupidHappyPancakes 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most of them aren't dysphoric now anyways.

[–]Godess 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans women are men in skirt, I propose

[–]NeedMoreCoffee[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem is that for people who don't know what dysphoria means it does not really sound that problematic as a mental disorder.

I am not trying to make a slogan. I am trying to dismantle theirs.

[–]jet199 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Love how you say, "No insult, no rudeness, just short and simple facts." When they will 100% take all those things as insults, rudeness and actual violence killing them.

It reminds me of the r/detrans mod saying the other day "but we did nothing wrong" as though all the GC subs got banned because they were doing something wrong. Anything you say is hateful to them because you won't do what you are told.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Truth. But if we look even a little bit saner than TRAs to people on the fence . . .

[–]Spikygrasspod 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

How about: 'Women deserve single sex spaces.' Get the focus where it belongs

[–]jet199 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Won't work, because they believe trans women are women. They will say trans women should be included in women's single sex spaces.

[–]Spikygrasspod 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's in the 'single sex' though. Either they believe trans women are female, or they believe there's no need for single sex spaces. It's less about convincing the die-hard 'trans women are literally female' types and more about convincing the 'inclusivity sounds nice, what's the big deal' bystander types.

[–]Bogos 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“You can’t change biology. Trans women are trans women.”

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think we need a language guide that just doesn't use their terminology at all. There is no such thing as a transwoman, or a trans woman (or a trans man, or a transman). There are humans who engage in opposite sex mimicry. There are humans who wish they were the opposite sex. There are humans who take hormones belonging to the opposite sex. These groups are not entirely overlapping.

There is no such thing as "trans," or "a transgender person."

Some ideas:

  • "trans," "transgender" => "transgenderist"
  • "transitioned," "transitioning" => opposite-sex-mimicing
  • "afab," "amab" => "female," "male," "<intersex disorder> afab/amab"

We can offer a whole different epistemology and way of understanding and talking about the phenomena. Complete with our own scientific investigations into the phenomena as we understand them, and as they are relevant to protecting women and girls.

eta: It seemed like "adult human female" was the counter to "twaw". Something about that one doesn't quite satisfy you though?

[–]PumpkinSpiceVagina 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of sloganeering. A slogan is shallow and can be repeated mindlessly. People go for TWAW because they've heard it a bunch and it sounds like it makes sense but most people who give it much thought will eventually come to question it. It's why they repeat it so much, often in the same comment or tweet. You are just meant to accept it, not to think.

I don't like using TRA tactics for us because the whole reason they have those tactics is because they have no real argument. Their stance is completely illogical and they know it, which is why they go for extreme emotional language, like how anyone who questions them is denying their humanity and their existence and literally murdering them. Whereas, our strength is in our arguments. People come to our side frequently out of curiosity about those evil terves they've heard so much about and stay because our arguments make sense and the TRA's do not-- which is precisely why they were always warning people not to read anything we wrote and ultimately why all the GC subs got banned. Exposure to our ideas is really all we need, and we'll keep getting more of that the more people like JKR speak out. All we really need is a new platform.

[–]missdaisycan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do agree with you.

I also cannot disregard the effects of marketing to capture the attention of the oblivious and the initially intellectually incurious who MAY then actually HEAR GC position and agree, increasing the number of tran ideology skeptics.

[–]Ofthewoods 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I agree, the slogan sounds so innocuous. As someone who peaked in the past month, I would have been willing to agree not too long ago because it seems like such a small thing. I always thought it was more about allowing them to think of themselves that way, and also had no idea about AGPs or the trend toward self-ID and men who are hardly even trying to pass thinking they should legally count as women. I expect most well-meaning people think the same and aren’t really thinking about the full implications, are just thinking people are trying to deprive a suffering person who has spent years on medical treatments from happiness or whatever. I like this idea.

How do they seem so organized in an ideology that is so inconsistent and anti-science? It’s bewildering and makes it harder for me to respond quickly

[–]NeedMoreCoffee[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They are not organized. A short slogan is just easy to repeat. Once you press further it all falls apart.

If you ever went to a large scale concert of a famous popstar you know they can easily get thousands of people to sing along in unison. But try to make that group do anything more and it starts to fall apart.

The TRA's just never need to respond very much further because "transphobic" and "you are hurting us" is a good rethoric to shut people down. We need to push them further and let them selfimplode.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed -- and they also rode hard on the coattails of the LGB movement in generating awareness and popularity.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Indeed. I'm a bit sad quite a few people in this thread do not quite get what i was trying to do though. I must not have explained it well enough.

[–]Terfenclaw 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think a slogan would need to sound more compassionate than calling them males, which has been drilled into people's heads as offensive. Something like:

"Trans women are trans women with different needs, risks, and life experiences."

Therefore it makes sense to separate their advocacy from natal women's.

[–]Jksmiddlefinger 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How about “Trans women are women...because men said so.”