Detrans female— Is there space for me here?

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[–]endthewoo 114 insightful - 2 fun114 insightful - 1 fun115 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Yes, of course there is space for you and any detrans females here. For the future there might be a detrans specific sub here - or better still on the new boards that the old GC mods are setting up (coming soon hopefully).

Good resources are gnc-centric blog and videos (incl her interviews with Benjamin Boyce), pique resistance videos and articles, 4thwave now blog. Also check out detrans twitter - should point you in the right direction, but do ask if you have specific queries, there should be pple here who can help out too.

[–]materialrealityplz 57 insightful - 2 fun57 insightful - 1 fun58 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

A book actually recently came out about situations just like yours, I haven't read it but everyone has said great things:

Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters

[–]Feather 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I bought it yesterday and am about halfway through. It's very good. I don't know what it's like to be OP and so I can't say how compassionate OP would find the book to be, but from my limited POV it seems pretty compassionate. I'm sure many trans people would, if they bothered to read the book, call it "concern trolling" but it seems to come from a place of genuine concern. It revolves around interviews with many people with all sorts of POVs as well as including a lot of clear facts and research.

Perhaps OP would find it validating if she read it.

Edit: Though it might also be a downer for OP right now. Even the title sounds depressing. So on the one hand, I think it would validate OP a lot in how this happened to OP. On the other hand, OP might find it's better to wait before picking up that book since right now OP probably doesn't need to focus on worries like, "What if everything is just unfixably ruined now?" (OP: everything is not unfixably ruined now; you'll be okay and you'll have support. Even if some people are not supportive, other people will be.)

[–]fuckingsealions 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, it's very good.

[–]fuckingsealions 39 insightful - 2 fun39 insightful - 1 fun40 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Hi instantlymidnight, I can't imagine what you're going through but I'm glad you're here. It must be really scary and hard to have your worldview shaken like this.

I don't have detrans specific resources for you, but as person who has worked through trauma, please try to be gentle with yourself and your reactions right now. From your post this all sounds super new. Reading, questioning, and understanding is important, but don't forget to step away and have some downtime to care for yourself. Exercise/walk if you can, watch or read something fluffy, write about your feelings, and talk to supportive people IRL.

It's intense, but it was helpful for me to read "The Body Keeps the Score." I was turned off a bit at first because it starts with the author's work with male veterans, but it's good for understanding trauma and there's a lot of resources in the back about how to work towards recovery.

This is kind of a little thing, but I was surprised how much it helped me when I was working through PTSD and feeling overwhelmed: https://yogainternational.com/article/view/soothe-your-nervous-system-with-2-to-1-breathing

It's good for anyone who is experiencing stress and overwhelm from their thoughts to calm your body from doing that fun fight or flight stuff.

I don't know if this is accessible to you or desirable, but psychology today magazine has an online search/filtering function and many providers are all set up to do online counseling now.

Anyway, I'm very glad you're here. You're important and your voice is important.

[–]fuckingsealions 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

One more thing... Please try to do what's right for you right now. Give yourself permission to ignore anyone who wants to argue with you, sap your energy, etc. It's always ok to withdraw and just take care of and protect yourself until you are stronger. <3

[–][deleted] 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I want to second the Body Keeps the Score - it seems you can get it online free here (though I haven't downloaded and can't verify the site - your local library will definitely have this one) As a follow up, The Deepest Well by Nadine Burke is a really good read about childhood trauma.

OP, I know a lot of trans people reject the idea they have any trauma in their lives - thinking physical/violent trauma is the only trauma - but even if you don't have emotional abandonment or a parental divorce in your past (or something people might be inclined to reject as trauma as it's not "traumatic" enough), there is a lot of trauma around being raised female in the patriarchy. Andrea Dworkin's works - specifically Pornography - helped me a lot with that. Her entire catalog is free online [here](radfem.org/dworkin/). (I have downloaded these, and the are fine) A warning about Dworkin, though, if you've never really looked at the trauma around being female in our society, her work can be very emotionally draining to read. It can be really hard to see it so bluntly described, when it is also so deeply personal.

[–]fuckingsealions 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for mentioning The Deepest Well. I haven't seen this one.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're welcome! I highly recommend it. She focuses a lot on the ACE test (which I don't remember being talked about in van der Kolk's work) and its link to predicting mental and physical illness later in life. She also discusses epigenetics more (if I remember correctly - it's been a couple years since I read them both, but they were both equally valuable to me in understanding my own childhood trauma).

[–]terfy_delight 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of the woman who used to post on the old sub were detrans. I don't think its a coincidence that being detrans might also lead to GC views. Of course you're welcome here. Welcome :)

[–][deleted] 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, of course, welcome! I'm sorry for what you have went through, I hope that you are not hard on yourself. On YouTube there's a group of young women who detransitioned talking about their experiences which you might find helpful.

[–]malleus_maleficarum 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

my entire world view and self perception is currently in flux. I watched trans people challenge the narrative and I just couldn’t by into it anymore. Frankly I feel brainwashed and I realise that statement in itself is controversial in the current climate.

My book recommendation is a bit oblique, but I hope it can help with the bits of your post that I've quoted. "Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong About the World -- And Why Things Are Better Than You Think" by Hans Rosling

When people sling opinionated articles at me; when they flood me with stats and graphs; when they try to rush or scare me into agreeing with their claims that people are dying and it's an emergency; when negativity is overwhelming... When everyone else is rushing headlong out of control bombarding me with opinions and articles and videos, this book provides tools to step back and breathe. Feeling in control of the firehose of info so I can sit back and think critically for myself and filter through the garbage was an incredibly empowering feeling.

I hope it can do the same for you.

[–]neveragain 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm new here myself, but you're absolutely welcome. I would love to hear your thoughts on everything if/when you feel like sharing.

The r/detrans subreddit was banned and unbanned recently. I'm not sure if that means the mod team there has been replaced with people who will police the content to fit the ideology. To my understanding there used to be detrans people on there with a wide range of opinions. As the old posts have not been deleted, the stories in the top all time list might still be a good resource for you as stories of other detransitioners with varying viewpoints (i.e. many of them are not GC thinkers, which may be valuable to you).

There was also an article posted on here very recently with interviews from FtMtF detransitioners (archive link because of paywall): https://archive.fo/yjJp5

I hope you will be able to find peace with yourself. Please take care.

[–]indeepshadows 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, thank you so much for that link! I wanted to read the article but the paywall interrupted me.

Also, you're very welcome here, op! Good luck with your journey. <3

[–]Lilith_Fair 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm so sorry for the mental turmoil you went through. There's a lot of silencing of dissent going on but I think the tide is turning and there has been more push back recently against cancel culture, wrong think and wrong speak. Your voice will help a lot in the long run. They're trying to minimize the importance of your voice but don't let them. Can you imagine anyone telling POC (God I hate that term): there's no racism, just because you experienced racism doesn't mean all POC experienced racism?

I don't know if a s/detrans sub has started yet but I hope someone starts one if not. I don't know if going to r/detrans is a good idea as I think that sub has been colonized.

[–]CaliforniGinger 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I spent a week on the floor of my apartment.

Aww, I have had a period of my life like that. It was horrible, awful, terrifying but it was the making of me. I was raised fundamentalist homeschooling Christian and when I was in early 20s things suddenly stopped making sense. I began doing some intense research. I couldn't stop, even as I watched my beliefs unravel before my eyes - I needed to know. I was incredibly depressed and exhausted from the work and for months I used to go into my room and lie down on the carpet before I reached my bed. I'd just stare into space, unable to listen to music or read or anything. When you face yourself and realize you have the courage to do this sort of deconstruction and rebuilding of beliefs, it gives you an unshakeable confidence. I look back and am SO SO grateful for that period of my life. Congratulations on your strength!

And of course you're welcome here!!!

[–]SpatOuttheKoolaid 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You are very welcome in this space.

[–]venecia 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't want to just read and run so I will just say - absolutely! I speak only for myself, but I perceive most of the ire around these parts directed at the toxic TRA and transwomen. Women who are de-transitioning and even trans men I have never had these kinds of problems with.

Take it easy here. If reading here gets to be too much, take a break. I'm interested in what we can do to make you and people like you feel more welcome and supported here. Do you have family and friends who can help you, or will they take this news super badly? If you reply to me I will get to it in the morning. :)

[–]Irascible-harpy 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There have been some great resources posted below. I just wanted to say that we will always be here to support women. Our only limitation is that this is an explicitly gender critical space. If you're looking for a broad range of viewpoints including those beyond gender critical feminism, you might want to check out the gender critical debate saidits. I believe Gender Critical QT is being rehomed here as well. There used to be a subreddit specifically for detrans individuals started by a detrans FTM. I used to recommend the subreddit wholeheartedly, but I do so with some caution at this point. The subreddit has been caught up in the purge. Reddit has been working hard to remove any and all viewpoints which may be considered critical of gender (particularly coming from women). The subreddit still exists at this time (thought it was temporarily banned). The top post still seems very relevant. Here's the URL for the sub https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/

Take it with a grain of salt in the current environment. If you'd be interested, it could be beneficial to start a Saidit detrans community as well. You are absolutely not alone in the slightest. I hope you find peace and acceptance, both within yourself and within women's communities. Many of us have experienced some degree of gender dysphoria in the past and while we may be critical of gender, we will always have solidarity with you as a fellow woman.

[–]TherealSimbul 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, there is. <3

Welcome.

[–]JustAMom 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome. I dont have additional resources for you but I want to reassure you that this sub is filled with intelligent respectful women. Im still reading irreversible damage, my heart breaks for these children and young women. I'm so sorry your going through this. I hope you heal and find a sense of belonging with us.

[–]Anna_Nym 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you follow any detrans women on Twitter or YouTube? There are a fair amount, and they have a lot of variety in their views of and closeness to their communities from when they were trans identified. A fair amount of them have described feeling like they left a cult when they stopped being trans identified.

I've seen some of them really connect with GC spaces and some have pretty strong critiques of GC spaces.

[–]OrangeFirefly 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, Laura Reynolds and Leoaica speak powerfully about their experiences, as well as Elle Palmer.

[–]fijupanda 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome home, sister.

I am gonna rec a book that helped me during some dark nights of the soul, and isn't really gendercritical, it's called Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu. It's a philosophy of sorts, called Taoism. Tao - the Way. It's available in public domain online in pdf. I recommend the Stephen Mitchell translation.

"When people see some things as beautiful, other things become ugly. When people see some things as good, other things become bad. Being and non-being create each other. Difficult and easy support each other. Long and short define each other. High and low depend on each other. Before and after follow each other. Therefore the Master acts without doing anything and teaches without saying anything. Things arise and she lets them come; things disappear and she lets them go. She has but doesn't possess, acts but doesn't expect. When her work is done, she forgets it. That is why it lasts forever."

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/mitchell.html

[–]Shinjin_Nana 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't see why it should be an issue, and I also hope there can be a specific detrans sub too.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome home sister :)

[–]SameOldBS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome. You have both my sympathy and admiration. I really hope you can find your way through all the brainwashing to your own truth and happiness.

[–]-thedarkhorse- 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hello, glad you are here. We had quite a few detrans women on the reddit sub. Spinster xyz is a great female centred space. https://www.detransadv.com/ is a good resource and the founder Charlie Evans is on Twitter, https://twitter.com/charlie_sci?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[–]yishengqingwa666 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, and hello and welcome, sister. :)

[–]Sineadsiobhan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, you’re absolutely welcome here.

I quit Reddit as soon as GenderCritical was taken down.

[–]vitunrotta 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are welcome, sister. Like others have already said - please take care of yourself. That is the goal number one. Be easy on yourself. I cannot imagine what you've been through... My only advice is: don't condemn yourself. Self-hate is a massive gun but it can also be unloaded. And if at any point you need to vent, open up, ask questions, rant, anything... We are here. Big hug.

[–]Jamiethiel2018 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are so very welcome here. We're all sisters, and as sisters we will bicker. That's normal.

I haven't walked in your shoes. As a GNC lesbian I do know how lucky I was not to come of age during this backlash.

My mailbox always open to you.

[–]leculdesac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so glad you're here. It's broken my heart that Reddit has maliciously closed the active detransitioners support group on their platform during a time of so much social isolation. I'm a gender critical feminist, as are my two daughters, and we're so concerned about this movement and its many harms, including what's happened to you.

As others are saying, PLEASE be careful and as anonymous as possible right now while you safely learn more. There are so many great resources at 4th wave and those young women who've started their own detransitioners site. It takes a lot of courage to face down the movement that has embroiled you and they are VERY invested in silencing your experience, so please stay safe right now and keep checking in here and at 4th wave. Thinking of you and again, welcome!!

[–]Rightbehindyou 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome, and thanks for speaking up!

[–]midgetmetalhead19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t have any resources for you but you’re absolutely welcome here. Detrans folks have some interesting takes on gender ideology and offer a fair bit of insight. There were a few detrans on the old sub I believe. I hope we can help you as well

[–]Lyssa 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are very welcome here!

Everybody understands that you need to be careful with personal details and absolutely no one gives a flying fuck about proper performance of femininity. :-)

[–]quickbeam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just want to say "welcome" and that no matter what you decide to do in the future, I have immense sympathy for you in trying to work out your identity and your place in the world. I'm sorry that Reddit has become such a toxic environment for open discussion. (Well, hell, most of the world has these days!) I often suffer from severe depression, which while it may have different causes, I can definitely relate to the feeling of being on the floor of one's apartment for a week. So big hugs there.

I lurked in r/detrans for a while to read advice they would give to detransitioners having difficulties. And one of the main things they always said was that it's a good idea to take breaks from even thinking about your gender and just concentrate on developing unrelated hobbies that will distract you for a while and to remember skills and abilities you have that totally transcend that question. I don't know if that's advice that would be helpful for you, but I know that with my depression concentrating on my hobbies helps me to not ruminate as much. Take good care!

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome, sister :)

It sounds like you've been having a tough time, and as others have already said, please make sure you're taking care of yourself! Stay safe first and foremost. Your physical and mental health are number one.

I've never been trans, so I dont know what you've been through or what things you may have going on, or what may concern you about detransitioning. However, I do have experience being a woman with a beard and excess body hair and excess testosterone (thanks, PCOS). Beyond high school the only effect it has had on me has been extra time shaving and feeling self-conscious. Again, idk what your specific situation is, but plenty of women have dealt with the effects of excess testosterone for a variety of reasons, and none of us are even a little bit less of a woman for it. (Frankly, back in the day 100+ years ago I could have charged people an entrance fee to see my lady beard, and I'm a bit disappointed that my boss isnt cool with me growing my beard out and charging anyone who sees me $1.)

On a more serious note, there is definitely anger in the GC community, for a variety of reasons. Please keep in mind that we (in general, there will be bad apples in any group unfortunately) are NOT angry with trans people as individual people unless there's a reason to dislike that person in particular. However, you've got a lot going on as it is. Dont feel like you need to jump in too far too fast, or that you have to keep reading if you find you're getting too upset because of the angry tone of a commenter or for any reason really. Being in a good headspace is important for critical thinking and keeping an open mind for new ideas, and there's no shame in taking breaks and focusing on yourself!

Take your time, take care of yourself, and do what you think is best for your health and happiness. Best of luck to you!!

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome! Please breathe and be gentle with yourself. You'll find a passionate defense of independent and critical thinking here, so if you need resources, just ask! ❤️

[–]Bogos 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are very brave for changing course and coming on here with vulnerability . So far this sub has not been brigaded so I hope it can be a good resource for you.

As far as what womankind thinks of you -I know you have your own internal work, but keep this in mind- you’ve always been a woman, you never stopped being a woman, and we’re happy to have you around in any and all capacities.

[–]bellatrixbells 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes.

Also if you would like to, I believe I would most likely not be the only contributor who would like to read your story. Gotta check the rules though since it may have changed from Reddit, but I would sure appreciate it a lot.

[–]lunarenergy8 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome instantlymidnight. I cannot begin to imagine what your journey has been like. I am happy you are reaching out, it is a big step to take.

As someone else has mentioned, be gentle with yourself. Your journey is yours. Healing from trauma takes time - make sure you do things that feel good to you, whether its going for walks, reading good books, watching a funny movie, practicing yoga, meditating, or whatever it may be. Nurture your soul. Writing is also really helpful, whether its just free writing or specfic topics.

Books that have helped me in embracing my own relationship to Womanhood are Red Moon and Wild Power - both are on the topic of Menstruality. I am not sure if this is something you are looking for, however.

If you are looking for circles, there are a lot of online women's groups, circles, and sisterships/sisterhoods; while they are not necessarily detransitioner specific, they are woman specific and you would be more than welcome in those spaces.

You are love. Your voice is important. YOU are important.

[–]DorothyGale 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome to this space and of course it is for you too. Someone mentioned that in time there may be a de-trans specific space on the new site I hope that is the case, people de-transitioning deserve a support space of their own too. I'm so sorry this happened to you, I hope you haven't gone too far down the path and that it is a relatively easy road back for you. I would suggest looking up Charlie Evans on twitter - she will have a lot of resources at her fingertips as a founder of detrans groups although it may be UK based (not sure) but even so people will be able to help you with resources and support there. Just be very careful you are keeping yourself safe online right now, stay as anonymous as you can unless you are absolutely sure you trust someone. I would go so far as to set up an email specifically for twitter not linked to anything else. I would like to offer support to you and certainly a listening ear on here for you to explore your feelings. The women in this forum will be very supportive of you. How are you right now?

[–]PostmodernJukebox 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

:( im sorry you went through that. ive had similar experiences where my lived experiences were dismissed in favor of others'.....and i know what its like to question wehther or not youre really a woman despite your body. i used to think i was an alien lol, i couldnt fit in with any girls my age or even with boys.

if you need someone to talk to dont hesitate to shoot me a message.

[–]Death_Tephra 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here is a massive GC and radfem archive on tumblr. They are doing an AMAZING job of archiving this material. It's a lot, but you'll find every resource you need. Welcome back sister.

https://unholy-lesbian.tumblr.com/post/620682892138446848/fucked-up-the-first-time-cause-im-a-dumb-ho

[–]Iced_Iced_Vovo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes you are welcome! I think there is a detrans group here in australia (might not be helpful) On Twitter detrans ppl display themselves with a little lizard emoji, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to cite ppls twitter handles here.

Reddit used to have a 'detrans' sub filled with ppl - i am unsure if they survived the culling or if they migrated here?