all 21 comments

[–]Sun_bear 38 insightful - 3 fun38 insightful - 2 fun39 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

I would like to see some example of these white supremacist and anti-semitic posts on r/gendercritical please. There was I thinking your average white supremacist wants to end women's suffrage, end women's participation in the work force and basically go back to the victorian era of women's rights. It's completely incompatible with feminism.

[–]womenopausal 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, nah. We modded the shit out of that sub. We were absolutely rigourous. We had like 2 minor complaints from Admins in over three years.

[–][deleted] 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm Jewish and lurked on GC pretty much all the time. I've seen plenty of blatantly anti-Semitic stuff on reddit and even more dog whistling. I don't remember seeing anything on GC. Like I'm sure there was a post or two over time that deserved a side eye, but nothing that pinged my radar. I notice reddit didnt ban the news, world news, and politics subreddits where people are constantly anti-Semitic.

I will say that I've seen WOC talked over in GC, and their experiences explained away or ignored, or just basic insensitivity to racial issues. Not in a white supremacist way (that I saw), but in a typical privileged person in society failing to listen and empathize properly way. Which is NOT okay and something we should work on as a group, but compared to the overt racism that plenty of subs showcase? Come on. If we ban all of the subs where WOC are ignored or people are insensitive to race reddit as a whole would disappear.

I'm not saying it's okay, because it isn't. But if we are banning subs for a few racially insensitive, privileged white person POV posts slipping under the mods' radars, most of reddit would be banned. The real reason for the ban was that GC was a woman-centric sub that doesn't buy into the narrative that any man should be able to say he is 100% biologically female and no one should question it.

[–]sisterinsomnia 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I saw several people write that GC was banned for being misandric? I couldn't find anything about the actual reasons, just the statement that it was a hate subreddit. The real reason must be that it discussed trans theories critically.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Funny, how they called criticism of some of the aspects of the trans movement (and trans women in particular being under the microscope) "misandry."

[–]Aquadog 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Talking about the patriarchy hurts their feelings. MeN cAn'T cRy!

[–]jet199 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You have to remember that "white supremacist" is now used against anyone who thinks western enlightenment values are not that bad. This is why scientific method and mathematics are now being called racist.

[–]Aquadog 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same with "far-right."

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The furry extremist trans want to “punch Natseez and TERFS!”

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I saw plenty. I reported them. Some got deleted and others remained because person who said was married to a brown person so gets to talk over minority woman. There was so much white supremacy dog whistling. Most of the WOC who called it out were banned because of “incivility”. You guys are going to have to be a bit more honest about the type of posts and posters you were comfortable with. GC WOC contained women of color who were banned by the main sub for calling out racism. You can either deal with the reality or continue to pretend it was never an issue and remain in the dark.

[–]Sun_bear 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Could you give me an example?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

From the sub that has been banned ? Examples were mostly white people shitting on hip hop, while turning a blind eye to misogyny in metal or some white woman trying to pretend she’s oppressed because of her conservative brown mother in law. There were people blaming Soros for certain events, women blaming Islam for certain things while trying to brush off the same issues present in Christianity. Then there were the alt right men who comfortably left their shitty white supremacy comments, going unchallenged. If you challenged them, you got banned. They were alt right because they posted on the Donald or red pill subs consistently. Overall no honest discussions. People who called it out were banned by the mods because apparently “incivility” was a bigger crime than blatant racism. They then expected people to grovel to get back in. In the end the GCWOC sub were filled with women banned because they called out racism on GC. How sad and pathetic is that? You didn’t think it was going to catch up with you eventually? When the GC sub got banned I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. Cry because women’s voices were erased but part of me felt like their chickens had finally come home to roost.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So there were something like 65,000 r/GC members at the time of the ban (forget what the active percentage was). Whose chickens are we talking about, exactly? Enough chickens to warrant nuking that many women's collective voices, that volume of discourse? The questions of that many women from non-Anglo countries seeking truth and advice? I distinctly remember women from the ME, Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe finding r/GC and reaching out, saying what a relief it was to find the group, how frightened they were to post, but how necessary it was for them to have some place to discuss feminism.

Boom -- gone.

You really okay with that?

This is sounding like part schadenfreude, part purity argument.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly, the fact that you wrote all that and are unable to self reflect doesn’t surprise me. You don’t like the white feminist term and I agree at times the term gets thrown around indiscriminately, but the GC sub went out of their way silencing women of color and propping up alt right voices. Last few months we would always have one thread or another pointing out that the sub was way too comfortable with alt right talking points and people like you would go in there and pretend it’s not happening. If you want to act dumb about it, go ahead. But sometimes you need to come to terms with the fact that the sub was more white feminist centric and spend way too much time silencing WOC to protect alt right women and men.

For example right now in the Guardian thread there is a person blaming Soros and open society for transgender articles in the guardian. That’s an alt right dog whistle and always has been. People even gave it an “ insightful” vote. But I am sure if I challenge it, I’ll be banned for “incivility”.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're arguing in bad faith -- misrepresenting (deliberately? out of ignorance?) personal motivations you cannot possibly know, broadly asserting intentions with no specific evidence, and evading questions about your own position. Unfortunate, because I'd like to know more about your ethos on silencing tens of thousands of women from an array of countries and cultures for what appears to be your personal US-centric expectations of emotional comfort.

As another member here has said, this isn't Reddit -- there's a sitewide requirement for quality of debate. So unless we're gonna do that, we're done.

[–]Sun_bear 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for posting this - you've given me the sort of examples I was looking for.

Reading between the lines here, I think you are saying GC holds men of colour to a higher standard than it holds white men? Metal, which is predominantly white, gets a pass, while rap, which is predominantly black gets called out?

Edit: what is Soros?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

From the sub that has been banned ? Examples were mostly white people shitting on hip hop, while turning a blind eye to misogyny in metal or some white woman trying to pretend she’s oppressed because of her conservative brown mother in law. There were people blaming Soros for certain events, women blaming Islam for certain things while trying to brush off the same issues present in Christianity. Then there were the alt right men who comfortably left their shitty white supremacy comments, going unchallenged. If you challenged them, you got banned. They were alt right because they posted on the Donald or red pill subs consistently. Overall no honest discussions. People who called it out were banned by the mods because apparently “incivility” was a bigger crime than blatant racism. They then expected people to grovel to get back in. In the end the GCWOC sub were filled with women banned because they called out racism on GC. How sad and pathetic is that? You didn’t think it was going to catch up with you eventually? When the GC sub got banned I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. Cry because women’s voices were erased but part of me felt like their chickens had finally come home to roost.

[–]Wrencer 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

About time ppl start protesting, all I see is gloating about the bans and redditors saying that radical feminism is toxic.

Hell, a mod on AskFeminists even said that radical feminism is toxic now because it "doesn't embrace intersectionality"

[–]jet199 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Intersectionality is just one a method for analysis out of many, not a political stance.

Most people who call themselves intersectional-whatevers have never used that method.

[–]Wrencer 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most ppl who support trans women unconditionally (like I used to do) never took the time to actually go read about the implications of "unconditional support"

We can support while still being critical of some aspects, but the nuances are completely lost on them. You're either a believer or a terf

[–]sisterinsomnia 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What does that even mean? After spending a lot of the lockdown reading online feminism I realized that the majority of the stuff I read doesn't understand what intersectionality means. Intersectional analysis not having anything to do with sex-based oppression or at least women-directed discrimination is NOT a feminist topic.

Say, someone wants to compare how rich men and poor men are treated in higher education (to make up an example). That may a humanistic topic and a laudable one, and it is about intersectionality, but it is not a feminist topic because it doesn't say anything about the sex-based axis of oppression.

I now think that feminists are expected to be the washer-women of the whole world's laundry, never having time to do even their own smalls.