Do you feel differently about heterosexual vs homosexual trans people?

submitted by Bogos from self.GenderCritical

I realize that even acknowledging this is not PC, and may be part of the problem. Gay TIMs in women’s spaces do not feel like as much of a big deal as straight TIMs, to most people. Without the sexual male gaze, TIMs are much less threatening - and I think also aren’t as exhibitionist. Similarly gay TIFs seem to have a clear intent on taking butch to the next level, even if misunderstanding gender. Perhaps gay trans relationship to dysphoria is completely different, for the most par?

My point is I think most people haven’t thought about hetero trans people and what that means. Even though I feel bad that anyone would disfigure themselves and embrace a regressive interpretation of gender, hetero trans really seem to be the issue with trans rights as it pertains to other people. Straight TIMs pose a larger threat to women’s spaces and straight TIFs I think are just masochists, and a dangerous trend among girls. Older TIFS seem to primarily be gay. Thoughts on this?

all 21 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]DifferentAirGC 47 insightful - 1 fun47 insightful - 0 fun48 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do think hetero TIMs are creepier and more dangerous, but gay TIMs also support the idea that women are just stereotypes or only exist to please men (a lot of them say being fucked by a man is the most womanly experience of all). None of them belong in women's spaces.

[–]DarthVelma 39 insightful - 1 fun39 insightful - 0 fun40 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nope. They're all treating my oppression like a game and my existence like a costume. Gay TIMs aren't one bit less misogynist than any other male.

[–]oofreesouloo 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, definitely. Straight TIMs are the ones who are the most dangerous in my opinion, because they're biologically male, attracted to females AND they've been socialized during many years as male. I'm a lesbian. I know what it's like to be a female. I know what its like to be socialized as a female and I know what its like to face oppression and sexualization from males. Many lesbians struggle with accepting our same sex attraction because we don't want to come off as perverts and disgusting out of fear of coming off as those males who had sexualized us before. Besides, lesbians ARE females and we're used to see naked female bodies SINCE childhood. It's part of our life. We don't make a big deal out of it. And we understand female struggles. So this is to say, my life experience as a lesbian is TOTALLY different from a straight TIM experience, whose opposite sex attraction was never considered shameful and they're MALES. Sorry, I don't trust them.

EDIT: I'd just like to add that despite my focus being on straight TIMs in my comment, I 100% agree with other people's comments about gay TIMs. TIMs, of any kind, do NOT belong in feminist spaces. But I do think straight TIMs are the most dangerous for women and that was my point.

[–]greenish 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

After hanging out in trans spaces (which of course are allowed to exist unchallenged, unlike women's spaces) when I thought I was trans, my feelings changed. I used to fully support "trans women" but I witnessed and experienced more outright hostile misogyny from them than I have ever witnessed from any other group of males (apart from virtually, on certain subreddits of course), and I've been around some sexist pigs and spent time in military settings. It wasn't just one group either, it was several, and their behaviour is echoed online pretty much everywhere.

I used to be much more sympathetic towards gay TIMs than straight TIMs, and still am to an extent because a lot of them have dealt with a bunch of homophobia and pressure about how 'effeminate' they are.

HOWEVER, I witnessed just as much misogyny coming from them. They weren't a sexual threat towards women, but they could pose a physical threat because of the vicious, poisonous hatred, disgust, and jealousy towards women that many of them have, and feel they had the right to forcefully express.

From what I've experienced straight TIMs are more likely to be sleazy, boundary pushing, and violating towards women, but gay TIMs are more likely to actually get violent, believing it's 'competition' and 'cattiness'.

None of them are any sort of women. They may have differing motivations and issues, and there are 'nice' individuals, but both of them are just as selfish and dangerous towards women as a class.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This x 100! Thank you.

[–][deleted] 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One may be less predatory than the other, but the presence of either in women-only spaces will make women uncomfortable - especially young girls.

[–]jkfinn 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gay TiMs and straight TiMs can be compared, but when you add in TiFs, that's a very distinct and separate question. Yes, straight TiMs are worse because they start from a place of maximum social power, and therefore can and do wreck the most damage on, and display the most aggression against, women and feminists.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gay TIMs in women’s spaces do not feel like as much of a big deal as straight TIMs, to most people. Without the sexual male gaze, TIMs are much less threatening - and I think also aren’t as exhibitionist.

So because gay TIMs like Cece Telfer, Andraya Yearwood, Terry Miller don't want to fuck girls and women, it's okay for them to fuck over girls and women by trouncing them in female sports? It's fine that they take medals, awards, opportunities away from girls and women? It's fine that they get named "female athlete of the year/month?"

Interviews and footage of Telfer, Yearwood and Miller make it very clear that all three of them are clearly AGP as well as homosexual - an increasingly common combination these days - who fetishize female anatomy and biological processes. For example, Telfer loves to fantasize about menstruation and claims he has periods, a classic sign of AGP. And Miller loves to wear skintight track suits that show off his "girl dick" very clearly and prominently when he competes in girls and women's track events. Here's his official photo as a member of the CT All State Girls Track Team in 2019: https://www.gametimect.com/the-2019-gametimect-all-state-girls-track-team/#photo-825273

You might have no problem having these guys in the loos, locker rooms and showers with you when you're in various states of undress or entirely naked - or at the sinks trying to wash/rub out the menstrual blood that's stained your shorts/trousers or the breast milk that's stained your shirt - but many girls and women would feel extremely uncomfortable and violated.

You know who historically were the men in NYC most likely to sexually harass visibly pregnant women back in the 80s and 90s? Gay (black) transvestite streetwalkers. Something about pregnant women really rubbed them the wrong way, and during my own and my friends' and neighbors' pregnancies these guys subjected us to the most vulgar, disgusting verbal abuse every time we passed by them. No way any of us would want them in the gym locker room or sauna with us checking out our semi-clad or naked bodies at close quarters.

It is extremely naive to think that only straight men have paraphilias (sexual perversions) that cause them to have prurient interests in female bodies and a desire to transgress women's boundaries by eyeing/ spying on us in unseemly, intrusive ways meant to intimidate and unnerve us. Straight TIMs might subject us to the sexual male gaze in hopes of screwing and becoming us, but gay TIMs are just as curious about female bodies because they too want to be us.

As Hannibal Lecter pointed out to Clarice Starling, what drives TIMs regardless of their sexual orientation is that they covet being female - and coveting comes from seeing, and inspires the desire to see more and more of what is coveted.

Given that most TIMs are narcissists with very little regard for others who lack respect for boundaries and display high rates of immaturity, deviousness and dishonesty, many of them will go to great lengths to in pursuit of what they covet - caring not a whit about steamrolling over the rights of girls and women in the process.

Regardless of whether TIMs prefer to have sex with males or females, most are filled with narcissistic rage and are both extremely disdainful yet envious of females. As the gay TIMs who took over last fall's Democratic Party LGBTQ town hall on CNN and made it all about them so well illustrated.

IME, gay TIMs - especially nowadays when so many of them have AGP and base their ideas of womanhood on porn - might not leer at us in a sexual way in women's spaces, and they're not likely to rape us, but they are just likely to want into female spaces so they can stare us down, look us over, see what we're really like and find out all the secrets they think we keep from men.

Particularly today, I think that gay TIMs are also just as likely as straight men to have a kinks that involve violating female boundaries and fetishizing our bodies and bodily functions - such as getting off on hearing women urinate, smelling and wanking off in the underwear they've steal or "borrow" from unsuspecting girls and women, and raiding the sanitary bins in public loos to get some tampons and pads with "fresh moist blood" that they can wear in their own panties or stick up their bums for the kicks it brings them.

As for your claim that gay male TIMs are not "as exhibitionistic" as het TIMs are, meaning they are less likely to engage in "extravagant behavior that is intended to attract attention to oneself" (the dictionary definition of exhibitionism): LOL. You need to look around more.

Below are some videos of gay TIMs who seem to be both highly exhibitionistic, as well as narcissistic, taken at random from YouTube. The ones modeling the lingerie in the first video also seem to have no problem flaunting their "lady dicks."

Even if these particular men came into women's spaces blindfolded so they couldn't look at us with their prying and covetous eyes, the fact is that most girls and women don't want to have to deal with dicks, men's bodies, male personalities and male patterns of behavior in the female-only spaces, services, programs and sports that generations of women fought long and hard to build in the first place.

https://youtu.be/F3PWwbFiZ6s

https://youtu.be/8Ziyoadqin4

https://youtu.be/jYGKMzxo0T8

https://youtu.be/TdnAj8or0vE

https://youtu.be/jYGKMzxo0T8

https://youtu.be/mUUgoeNFP38

https://youtu.be/11WAvPMR64w

https://youtu.be/0GS8oTJER_8

[–]Comatoast 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't really care what type they may be, I've seen good and bad behavior out of both. I have negative feelings towards those with interests in forcing this acceptance into children's lives, trying to change the bodies of children in any way under the guise of a holding hand, those unable to keep themselves composed and immediately start shitflinging/making threats, those that cannot accept biological reality, those that refuse medical treatment of comorbidities for other illnesses they may have, and those that force their way into society with attempts to undermine biological women instead of understanding that they themselves need spaces dedicated to them separately for needs (medical, psychological, and physical) that we (as women) should not be responsible for accommodating. I want these people to feel loved without feeling like it's necessary to do any of this shit. I want them to understand that there are other methods that need to be explored before altering their bodies. I want them to fucking stop it and think about the repercussions of what they say and do towards not only themselves, but others. If I could amplify this gut warmth outward, I would. I would make them feel absolved of hurt, impulsivity, impatience, undesireability, despair, and confusion. I would have done that for all. I'm not an omnipotent force though, or else this world would have been dusted by the Bronze Age.

[–]LilianH 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Traditional misogyny vs. Creepy misogyny.

[–]Catbug 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah. Misogynists are misogynists, gay straight or in between. They are sexualising women’s oppression and militantly enforcing gendered stereotypes intended to hurt women and girls, no matter who they wanna bone.

[–]SteppenSlut 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My dad worked in a machine shop with a couple of old school TIMS. They both did MULTIPLE surgeries and all that long longggg ago and are completely convinced that we all believe they are actually women. They have never once flaunted being trans and I doubt they ever will, in fact they fear it and fear anyone thinking they’re not real women. They are both married to men. It’s honestly sad for all involved because you know it’s just gay men with deep rooted internalized homophobia. I’m not concerned of their presence in the slightest I just feel for them.

[–]AugustiJade 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, I think that the old school types are what most of the general public assume this modern trans movement is like. Those transsexuals just wanted to transition and be left alone. Or at least it seemed that way. I was more supportive of those types of people. This modern movement is nothing like that. Trans is their entire personality and identity, and they want everyone to know. It's a shame that the general public does not see this, but I do think people are starting to wake up.

[–]yishengqingwa666 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No. They are all Narcissist, misogynist males with a fetish and I want nothing to do with them.

[–]Delia 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I want nothing to do with transgender in my life at all. I consider many who have transitioned recently to be duped and persuaded to change their sex. I do not even agree with transitioning and I think people should be counselled to accept their born sex. I also consider the affects on natal women as so serious, I want nothing to do with any of them. Which is my choice. I won't repeat this statement because it is quite harsh, but it is how I honestly feel.

[–]TeaAndCigarettes 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think a lot of homosexuals tend to try and "correct" themselves or get "corrected" by trans "philosophy". I tend to just feel pity for female lesbians who try to be men and I can't help but notice how a lot of the more reasonable trans identified men tend to also be attracted to men.

I have to admit I'm much more comfortable with male attracted trans-identified men. I don't know what it is but on the whole they just seem so much more reasonable and logical than their counterparts. I never had an issue with the trans agenda until it became a bunch of men trying to aggressively colonize women's spaces and the crime statistics started rising.

[–]xAcidRainx 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, yes.

Have you ever noticed that seemingly most of TW who are into men actually put in the effort, and are decent people who don't lack for partners?

Whereas "transbians" slap on a wig and a dress and call it a day, and get pissed at lesbians for not wanting them.

That's why I can't help but think a lot of these people only transition because it's a fetish for them. Same thing for TM that are into men.

Just some observations I've made.

[–]Cicerosolo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most people don't even know about autogynephilia even though it's ridiculously serious and amazingly more common than you'd anticipate. Most just think trans people are gay even though 2/3 of them are straight male sexed

[–]Seahorse 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I won't talk much on threats but I think I probably have a lot more tolerance for homosexual trans people (presenting as "heterosexual").

The straight guys and chicks claiming to be gay people, I don't agree with for any number of reasons. I do not believe they are genuine, that their transition is for completely different reasons and that they're likely the cause of most of the modern trans movement.

You will see these people call themselves dykes or fags, they seem to be the ones that call people transphobic cause they can't get a date with a gay person, they appropriate homosexuality at the highest level and as a gay person it probably affects me more.

But obviously they all band together to create the damaging movement for what it is.

They all reinforce stereotypes.

[–]Anna_Nym 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My divide is between trans people who are willing to discuss sex-based needs and those who are not. I don't care who is attracted to who.

I think back in the day, there was probably a more significant difference. The old school HSTS wanted to be closeted and just live their lives.

I think it's a good thing that trans people generally are safe to be out. I think a closeted life can't be healthy. Heck, I feel stress just being closeted about GC beliefs! I can't imagine how stressful it would be to have to lie about significant chunks of my entire past as well as the material reality of my body! But the result of the lack of closeting is that we're seeing that a lot of HSTS trans folk are just as cruel in their entitlement as AGP folk and that some AGP folk (like Debbie Hayton) are pretty reality based.

[–]Amareldys 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think there will always be some gay guys, trans or not, who naturally get included in women's social groups and things.

And I think that's kind of the crux of it. There's always been, "Oh Jo, he's one of the girls, let's invite him along", and because this has been the case, some people say, "Well since they made an exception for Jo, they HAVE to make one for me"