Detransitioners, society and gender non-conformity

submitted by aqrylix from self.GenderCritical

So every now and then I will watch a youtube video of a detransitioner talking about their journey, and one thing I noticed is that they all say something very similar about gender non-conformity. Something along the lines of "I looked like a clown/disgusting trying to transition back". Basically looking like a masculine woman, or feminine man (in other words, gender non-conformity) made them feel gross. This strikes me as the root of a lot of these people's issues, they view gender non-conformity as a problem that needs to be fixed, either by transing themselves (and others) or by adopting the gender stereotypes assigned to their sex. It seems clear to me that they view gender non-conformity as undesirable and are "repulsed" by it. This is obviously a very common thought, as evidenced by the way people (man and women) react to women who don't shave their body hair. If you read youtube comments on these types of videos, man and women often write about feeling revulsion at body hair on women.

How brainwashed are human beings that they think socially-constructed gender stereotypes trump biology? I can't say I don't share the same indoctrination, I used to have the same negative impulses myself at gender non-conformity (despite being gay & GNC myself). But, respectfully, where the fuck is the critical thinking??? The problem is obviously the culture and not your body. Sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy trying to keep up with my peers who seem to think gender is the most important thing ever.

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[–]Feather 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a complex issue. I would feel gross if I exhibited certain common biological traits of men. I mean, not disgusted in the sense of feeling like I was a bad or gross person, but I'd be grossed out. If someone forced me to take male hormones, I would absolutely be horrified by the changes it would cause in my body, and no amount of, "It's okay to be a masculine woman," would comfort me.

So I can see how a detransitioner, upon peaking, would also feel gross about certain ways they'd changed their bodies.

[–]manto 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Critical thinking is unfortunately not part of this world.

[–]Catbug 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

It’s an interesting thought. I can imagine it would be easy to feel pretty gross whilst trying to come to terms with the changes inflicted in your body by being given hormones by over-eager gender clinics. Presumably there’s also the side effects from coming off a massive imbalance for a long period of time, wonder how much the mood altering effects of that impact a person feeling gross or ugly during the early detransitioning stages.

There’s almost definitely be some degree of discomfort with their sexed features that was never dealt with and had pills or shots thrown at it instead. Idk how breasts recover from testosterone and binding so I could be way off here.

[–]sisterinsomnia 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The hairy legs bit is something that I know, from my own experience, to be very culture-specific, though the impact of Hollywood is slowly making American values spread in other places. It is a weird convention, given that only young children have no body hair. Adult women actually do grow it, though how much it shows depends on one's coloring.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I personally find it enraging that, right when it seemed like we were on the cusp of “gender roles, stereotypes, and beauty standards are bullshit” - not there yet, but almost, almost - the TRA movement kicks in and starts spouting off with “No, it’s not about acceptance of your body, it’s about changing your identity to fit an assumption of what you’re supposed to look like vis-a-vis what you actually look like.”

It feels like twenty or fifteen years ago, perhaps, we were just about to start accepting, as a society, that it was perfectly fine to be a woman and have a body that didn’t fit some ideal or cultural concept of “feminine”. That also went for your interests and behavior. Likewise, if you were a man and didn’t have features or tastes that were “masculine” enough for standards in the past, we were just about to accept that that was cool, too.

Then, TRAs came out in force, saying that all that was wrong. A woman’s “mannish” body and “masculine” interests didn’t mean that she didn’t give a shit about gender roles; it meant that she needed to accept that she was really a man. A man who lacked a muscular build and enjoyed traditionally “feminine” things didn’t mean that he, too, didn’t waste time on preconceived notions about gender; it meant that he had to accept that he was really supposed to be born in a woman’s body.

How is this progressive? How is this NOT setting us back as a society? How is telling people NOT to accept themselves somehow a positive change?