I am concerned that superlative descriptions/tidal waves of acceptance and praise aimed at gender-special people is predatory and toxic for vulnerable children

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[–]Shinjin_Nana 47 insightful - 1 fun47 insightful - 0 fun48 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, that's why giving kids positive attention for this stuff is dangerous. Kids do stuff to get approval from parents, peers, and priests (authority figures), without the mental ability to distinguish genuine good from bad.

It's called grooming.

As a society we are literally grooming kids to be trans.

[–]wicklesnarf 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are so many ulterior motives coming from people who don't sincerely care about these kids at all. Pharmaceutical industry making their money. Trans adults wanting validation. Predators targeting women who want to reinforce the "from birth" narrative, instead of the "calculated move to hide their wolf behavior in a sheep's clothing" reality. Activists wanting to essentially breed a new generation to swell their ranks. And a metric fuckton of basic bitches/bros who just want to pat themselves on the back for being so progressive and leaving "you go girl" comments on these kids' pics. Not to mention the obscure crap like nuttily religious parents who encourage it as a solution to their son being gay or even just liking dolls and dresses.

One of the most frustrating things about TRAs to me is how they claim everything trans-related is so simple and straightforward. It isn't simple to sort which kids are "really trans" from the kids being influenced or manipulated. Or to alter their body's development without negative consequences. There is no nuance in their arguments.

[–]reluctant_commenter 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It looks like love, and to a kid who hasn't had that, how would they know the difference?

This exactly. Especially considering that many of these kids likely have untreated mental illness. This is why we should institute procedures for mental healthy screening and psychotherapy before allowing anyone to transition. The fact that that is deemed "transphobic" by many people is shocking to me. It's just good practice, period.

[–]Literallyawoman 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Remember what happened to all the millennials who were told they’re “gifted”? because I do. I know a lot of people approaching 30 who can’t function in society because they’re still riding the high from being a 14 year old who was told they’re really smart and special-and then post-college the real world isn’t rewarding them for just existing or being able to meet work deadlines easily. No one is telling them they’re special anymore.

Source: am a millennial who took AP classes with you know, millions of other regular kids because that’s what we were, and watched 90% of my classmates go on to flounder in college and become bitter, dysfunctional adults.

I think similar will happen with the trans kids. Their core value will be tied to being trans and being young trans at that, and a few years down the line they will be floundering even more for meaning and definition when they’re just adults that look off. And no one can give you that, it comes from within, but they’re not given the tools for inner strength, only how to project victimization.

[–]Hard_headed_woman 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I couldn't help but think about Jazz Jennings when I read your reply. Unless Jennings can turn his "trans celebrity" into full time trans work, I can't imagine that he's not going to seriously flounder. I guess he can work as an lgbt rights person on the university level? Of course, he's got to get through college to do that, and who knows when he'll be emotionally well enough to handle college.

[–]luckystar 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Jazz Jennings is absolutely heartbreaking, that child never had a chance. Whole life ruined because "she" played with dolls at age 3. The whole family is fucked -- mom is blatant MBP, dad is too cowardly/busy with work to protect his kid, other siblings are chopped liver (Jazz even said he expected to use his sister's womb to give birth to a child for him). Jazz has never felt sexual desire and will never be able to orgasm, and he has to take hormones for the rest of his life. I haven't kept up with the chop job updates (bit too much for me to stomach) but IIRC the surgically constructed hole was infected/collapsing, because the puberty blockers and cross sex hormones meant he never developed an adult penis so they had to take skin from all over other parts of his body to construct his """vagina"""... Even child beauty pageant girls get to grow up and move on one day! How is this blatant child abuse filmed and celebrated? Are people horror watching like those shows about hoarders or 600 pound obese people?

[–]Literallyawoman 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, the plight of many celebrity kids trans or not

[–]msteacherlady 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I teach AP and it astonishes me not how many regular kids are enrolled (that's fine to a point, stretch goals can be good) but how many of them and their parents expect As. When they don't get them, they behave as if I'm withholding the grades because I'm an asshole, or they pester me about "what more can we do to improve?" after exhausting all previously provided options. I mean, back in college I could have studied microbiology 24 hours a day, went to every study session and lived in the student support center and I probably would have gotten a C+ instead of a C-.

Oh, and everyone's got an anxiety diagnosis now.

I don't know what people expect from life. The day I realized I wasn't spectacularly special and that I could be happy with an average life, was a great moment of freedom. I had a former student who was a consummate athlete, never begged for the As he earned, worked and interned for his career interest and also volunteered. He was a better student than I was at that age. Damn straight he deserved the scholarships he got. Let him go be exceptional. I don't know why some people think they deserve the same when all they do is hang out on the internet, have nerd interests, and can recite pi to the whatever'th place.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Ok.

But.

Some people really are fucking anxious.

My parents (dad in particular) didn’t even want me in college, and made that damned clear every day. He insisted I work to support “my keep” through all of it. Work told me they were more important than school. School told me they were more important than work.

I grew up in a seriously fucked-up household, so I know that has a lot to do with it. When I wasn’t worrying, I was reminded that I should start worrying, soon, because the good things never last and the bad things last forever and if you ever make a SINGLE mistake you will never, ever recover.

As I went through school and worked and looked at the options available to me, it became increasingly evident that no matter what I did, it was highly unlikely I would be able to support myself comfortably anytime soon after graduating. It wasn’t just my major. It was because wages had simply not risen in line with the cost of living and the demands put on our incomes. We now had to pay for car insurance as our public transportation options were being cut back, but we were given no rise in income to cover the extra cost. To see a doctor was $50. To get the prescription from seeing that doctor was $60. My paycheck was $600 every two weeks when I graduated. Me, and everyone I knew, had roommates, usually multiple ones, and shit apartments when we graduated, and it wasn’t fun and romantic like it is on TV. It was scary, we were getting massive utility bills we simply couldn’t pay, and even getting a place to live demanded we pay thousands of dollars in prepaid rent, background checks, and application fees. Our elders, politicians, parents, and Everyone That Knew Better both blamed us for our conundrum and said that it was inevitable in the grand scheme of things.

Don’t be dismissive of anxiety. Parents seem to either coddle their kids or just hate them. Try to feel for the latter.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The pattern I've noticed is that there's increasingly more students who have anxiety, and I have a strong suspicion a lot of it stems from familial pressure. It's unfair, and often times the pressure on children is unreasonable.

I've got my story too. My parents never directly pressured me because they were far too distracted by the mess they were in when I was a kid. I could have gotten up to any kind of trouble because no one was monitoring me, but I didn't because internally I knew I couldn't afford to screw up lest I end up out on the street and possibly drag my family into further despair. I'm not going to overshare, but adolescence was a very bad time and sometimes I wonder how I got through it. But this didn't entitle me to an 4.0+ GPA.

I'm a bit peeved at the insinuation that I don't feel for struggling students, but rather than recount the books-worth of stories of my mentorship and support of students in trouble, I'll just have to let it go.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I must have misinterpreted you and I’m sorry. I admit I’m a bit prickly about it - I hear too much of people complaining about “What do all these young kids have to be upset about, anyway?” and it kicks off a reaction in me.

Admittedly a lot of it does have to do with self-silencing due to thought policing. Like, on Ovarit a fascinating article was posted about the new censorship and anti-debate of the fake-ass virtue-signaling “new left”, and I wanted to share it because it was spot on. But where? Anywhere I went, I’d be accused of being on the wrong side of things. Because people deserve to be threatened and silenced. They deserve to be put into the thrall of a social credit system of our own making. People would say that to me. If I encourage debate, I must be anti-vaccine, anti-mask, pro-pollution.

That causes a shitton of anxiety. We live in a climate of fear, and that’s what’s intended.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel you! On top of that, engaging in debate can be so exhausting because people come in with their conversation-stopping platitudes. It's the kind of "debate" my father and uncle engage in when they're harassing each other about their favorite baseball team.

A couple of years ago I had an AP student who actually had an IEP for anxiety, which in my years of teaching, I had only ever seen one time before with a foster youth. This poor young lady. She dodged class frequently, asked for alternative assignments (which I was compelled by her IEP to provide and wasn't really fair to me as I don't have that much time to prepare such assignments), asked for allowances beyond what her IEP said when it came to test taking, and there was a lot of crying. I could only do so much to protect her from other students who didn't want to work with her and complained about her behavior. I wasn't angry or upset with her so much as I was upset that her parent and the counseling team pushed her into AP classes because she expressed an interest in nursing. My previous district had a medical pathway and very few of those kids were AP kids. Like, who's putting the idea in kid's heads that there is only one, very challenging, high-stakes pathway to success?

I also believe that regular public education works fine enough for most people, even if they didn't exactly enjoy it, ha ha, but there are just some students who would do so, so much better in an alternative setting. The girl who I'm talking about had transferred to an alternative program over the winter break, and I really hope she found some peace in her future goals. I personally am wary of charter schools, but there are some good ones with vastly different structures than traditional ed that could really benefit some students. I really wish alt ed and public ed weren't pitted against each other so often.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When you say counselors, do you mean career counselors? Some of those people are just off the wall. I thought it was bad enough when I was in college, but then I browsed through Ask A Manager’s “Bad Advice” section and it was just...holy shit. Telling students to go into fields they were completely unsuited for, telling them “That high-demand field is probably too hard for someone like you. You should probably just get an degree in [throws dart] Business Accounting and whatever”, and then the bizarre “How to get hired” schemes. “Make a website all about yourself with your picture, hobbies, resume, blog, etc. on it and then put it on every application you turn in!” And yes, you feel like they know what they’re talking about, so you feel compelled to do what you’re told, even if every fiber of your being is going “NO NO NO NO NO”.

Not to mention the basic fuckup cancel culture that academia is today. I think it’s actually super-stressful for young women in particular. We have to deal with all the regular stressors we’ve always had, but then the cognitive dissonance of the TRA movement, of being told you’re in a place that values debate and academic freedom above all else, until you think something that someone else decides they don’t like, and thus having to constantly police yourself, your language, your work, the feeling like you’re always vulnerable, yet being watched to make sure you comply.

[–]jkfinn 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One big reason there’s ever so much more kindness, praise, and well-wishes to offer than criticism is because the psychological hugely trumps the political in today’s relativistic culture, which makes pathos a far easier sell. And since trans is a superficial acting job, or con job, it has got the p-r routine perfectly down. We’re very pretty people and we’re very vulnerable people (21 dead) and without even having the downside of being female... and how can we be more worthy? And just stuff your political reality/evidence because in our showy scenario, it’s just seen for its unmistakable cruelty.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There’s a lot of propaganda on social media pushing this on kids; too.

[–]vitunrotta 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. Massive push in social media + not fitting in the gender roles + much wanted/needed attention from peers and authorities = great combo for teens especially to buy into this. Dangerous shit.

[–]divingrightintowork 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Abigail Shrier talks a lot about this - if you haven't heard her interview on Joe Rogan I'd give it a listen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtftWcgXjdg

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's what my brother doesn't get. He can't see it. He thinks his TIF daughter is super brave and no way it's a phase because when he was that age 30 years ago gay kids got beaten up, so why would anyone choose to say they're trans?

Because you dolt, it's cool to be trans and we're seeing that play out in real time as she is the most popular kid in school and now he and my sister in law are the cool parents that other TIFs come to for advice.

You're right, it's making it so much worse for kids. How are they ever supposed to walk it back when they grow out of it when it's the thing that makes them cool?

[–]Complicated-Spirit 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can see your point.

Another way of looking at it is: when it comes to women, we are always fair game. With our appearance, we get criticized and scrutinized for growing older, like the passage of time is something that is our inalienable responsibility to prevent. We’re supposed to have children, if we don’t want to be seen as cold, heartless witches, but then we immediately have to lose the baby weight - otherwise we are fat, and it’s not okay to be fat. If we say too much, too loudly, we’re bitches; if we say too little, too softly, we’re asking to be abused; everything we say and do must be analyzed and ultimately proven negative.

But a TiM doesn’t have that problem to our extent. To be certain, he will be subjected to harsh words and vitriol like anyone else - but he will also have a massive cohort of handmaidens and TRAs out to declare, on the sole basis of his being a TIM, that he is beautiful, he is stunning, he is brave.

Take Meg Ryan. She got plastic surgery some years ago, and promptly disappeared from Hollywood, because it was judged by the magazines to be not good enough. Photos that were snapped of her afterward scrutinized her appearance, detailing the work she had had done, comparing to what she looked like before, and ultimately deciding that she had made a grave mistake - because, of course, who wants to see an actress who doesn’t meet some gossip rag’s standards? It seems to be a common practice towards public women - constantly point out some perceived flaw in their appearance, to the point where they feel the need to “correct” it, then criticize them into virtual retirement or eternal shame for “fixing the very thing that they were mocked for. But Jenner gets SRS and is lauded, without a second to spare, as gorgeous, lovely, perfect, wonderful, inspiring.

[–]onemoredaydream 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OF COURSE IT IS.

All this bullshit about "trust the children." Yes, I do trust children .... I trust them to have a surface-level understanding of things and to behave in their self-interest. I also remember how lonely it is to feel like you don't fit into this hugely dysfunctional world, and how desperate I was to get approval from my peers. This was my state of being from the ages of 12 through 18. I do NOT think letting these kids make permanent changes to their bodies, to be rewarded as stunning and brave, is compassionate at all!

That lovebombing is fleeting. They always need more. You see this with older trans people who are online all the time... no matter how much they are validated, it only lasts for that moment. The constant praise and adoration must be repeated eternally, while they grow ever more fragile in their sense of self.

[–]AdultFemaleHuman 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great post. I agree with you.

I think the preteen and teen years are also crucial times for kids to practice emotional self-regulation and build an internal sense of self-esteem rather than relying on external validation. Our preteen and teen years may be difficult but they toughen us up, force us to mature emotionally. These kids are being coddled and they won’t be able to cope in adulthood when they aren’t given the same sort of worship by society and those around them.

[–]luckystar 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can we link to reddit from here? There was a top posts on r/mademesmile of a trans woman "being herself" and literally ALL the comments were this effusive, over-the-top praise. Go into 'her' profile and of course it's all porn/sex work/fetishization. The general public genuinely seems to have NO IDEA what they are actually praising here.

[–]Jalaces 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Even the more reasonable trans think this is weird. I have seen people mocking this happening to them, or saying they think it's awkward that people use theese as a chance for virtue signalling.

[–]our_team_is_winning 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It wasn't that long ago that everyone on the internet was self diagnosing as bipolar. Like that was a trendy thing to be! If any of you have suffered legit, non-trendy mental health issues, you know you wouldn't wish it on anyone, AND it's something that you try to HIDE from others. A self-diagnosis of manic depression was serving the same function as claiming to be genderspecial. Does it all come down to the internet being a popularity contest? It's like high school on steroids.