all 28 comments

[–]sisterinsomnia 41 insightful - 1 fun41 insightful - 0 fun42 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It is a good book. Several chapters are on the female body being invisible in the safety testing of cars, medical studies, and so on, some chapters are about how the female gender roles and their requirements are invisible to planners.

For instance, somewhere in South America (I think) sidewalks were made wider when the planners finally realized that many women are pushing an adult in a wheelchair or a child in a stroller while holding on to the hands of other children. Men in that country tend not to do those things so narrow sidewalks are not as big a problem for them (though wheelchair users are obviously affected whether male or female).

Town planning, in general, has tended to assume that the way men travel during the day will be the same as how women travel during the day, but the two patterns are different, on average. Men with children tend to travel to and back from work and then to recreational activities, women with children tend to travel to work only after a child or children are left at daycare, and then return trip for them will include not only picking up the children from daycare but often also going grocery-shopping. Women are also more likely to make trips to care for elderly relatives and so on. So if bus routes are based on only men's traffic patterns they may not serve women's needs very well. Data from everyone matters.

The latter chapters are sex-based only in the sense that gender roles are usually assigned by sex, but what those chapters say should be equally valid for trans women who have accepted traditional female gender roles. The biological sex chapters are not relevant for them, because they don't share the same type of body, but I don't see anything wrong in that. There are many things about being female that I don't share, say, and I don't demand that all those things should be erased. Yet that is what the trans activists seem to demand.

[–]MezozoicGay[S] 32 insightful - 4 fun32 insightful - 3 fun33 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

They demand to "center" them. Not just say "women", but specify "cis women, transwomen and non-binary women". While if they trully believeing "TWAW", just saying "women" should alraedy include them. Seems even they don't fully believe in "TWAW". Funny how transmen are perfectly fine with the book.

And book is good, yes. It was recommended to me by my lesbian-friend, when I learned about thalidomide-scandal and I was very angry on the situation.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 24 insightful - 5 fun24 insightful - 4 fun25 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

It’s the narcissist’s hat trick. “It’s wrong because you didn’t make it about me.”

“Um, I’m pretty sure that even by your own criteria, you were included.”

“But you didn’t make it SPECIFICALLY about me.”

[–]Spikygrasspod 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I wonder if trans women have 'feminine' patterns of work and transport. Do they do the majority of care work in their families? Either way, I didn't throw the book out the window when it looked at issues that I personally don't face but other women do.

[–]Realwoman 23 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I would be shocked if any TIM actually wants the care giving parts of being female and I'm still yet to see a TIM saying that he's a woman because he wants to take care of his family. They just identify with the "fun" parts of being a woman.

[–]ReapWhirlwinds 23 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

fun

Sexualised. They equate women with sex.

[–]sisterinsomnia 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know how 'feminine' patterns of work and transport trans women might have. Based on what I have read those men who transition in mid-life certainly don't seem to take on any female-coded household chores or child-rearing chores.

[–]RestingWitchface 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I mean one of the primary messages of the book is that women are treated as outliers, even though we are ~50% of the population. Trans and non-binary, etc. are a very small minority, so the problem of them being overlooked does not exist on anywhere near the same scale.

[–]sisterinsomnia 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A very good point. I see this happening a lot in social media so that equal representation of various groups is viewed as one from each group, even though the sizes of the groups are sometimes hugely different.

[–]flapyourwings 26 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Did they even read the book? Or did some genderhair crawl into their DMs crying about how it's problematic and now they're frantically virtue-signaling so as not to be caught caring too much about women?

[–]MezozoicGay[S] 31 insightful - 3 fun31 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I asked one of TiM's I know, he said that author was doing transphobic tweets in Twitter for years. And by transphobic he showcased some tweets like "transwomen still have male socialization and in most cases acting like men, so none of my works about women stereotypes is affecting them in any way". And I can assure you she is right, as I know transsexuals who are 25+ years after transitioning, and still acting like gay men. But it is "transphobic" nowadays to think like that, because now "being woman" is what men say.

So most likely they never read the book, and just went "she is TERF, so book must be TERF too".

[–]Complicated-Spirit 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

They don’t have to read the book. If you asked them to, they’d respond that they’re under no obligation to do emotional labor for you.

[–]Riothamus 16 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

It takes a real man's man to opt out of emotional labor yet still identify as a woman.

[–]Radfem_the_Hun 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Went searching for more info on the TRA reaction to this book after following this WITS Ireland thing, and found this from March: https://medium.com/@Siltha1.0/caroline-criado-perez-is-a-terf-35c489e59ad9 Note the denial of biological sex in this article, when "nObOdY iS dEnYiNg BiOlOgIcAl SeX eXiStS!!!"

Honestly, it seems like most of their "problems" with the book are that TRAs had already decided a long time ago that Criado-Perez is terven: https://www.transadvocate.com/et-tu-caroline-criado-perez_n_14058.htm (from 2014).

They really hate women talking about women. It's just so obvious at this point, how can anyone deny it anymore?

[–]MezozoicGay[S] 20 insightful - 8 fun20 insightful - 7 fun21 insightful - 8 fun -  (5 children)

getting promoted as a feminist book. It’s not [...] it excludes women just for not being cisgender

I am sorry, what? Book is not feminist, because it is about females?

Trans women or non-binary people with penises don’t get any of the privilege cis men get

Reminded me about that TiM who went to HR as male to get the job, and only on job said he is "transwoman". Yeah, no privilege.

[–]VioletRemi 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, no privilege.

This makes me so angry.

Transwomen have penis privilege to go any places they want - male or female bathrooms, lockets, etc. They have privilege wear male or female dresscode on jobs requiring dresscode. They have privilege everyone else changing language and pronounces for them. They have privilege being invited on shows (unlike lesbians). They have privilege to silence/cancel others if they disagree with them. They have privilege that "misgendering" is a violence to them, unlike someone like me who suffered of being beaten and burned. They have all the male privileges and in addition they have partially women rights.

[–]Realwoman 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

If you're non binary, how can you be a woman by their logic? Aren't non binary people supposed to be neither male nor female?

[–]PassionateIntensity 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It seems like non-binary assumes default human=male. NBFs are getting mastectomies while NBMs don't even shave off their beards.

[–]VioletRemi 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

They are neither man nor woman, but still either male or female.

[–]sisterinsomnia 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have recently noticed that nonbinary want to have their cake and eat it, too, if they are female. They have moved out of the female category in all the respects this might help them (though you can't avoid sexism by transitioning unless you go the whole hog of surgeries and hormones), but still want to be counted when that benefits them. Thus we get this illogical term 'nonbinary women.' It also automatically turns all other women into 'binary women.'

[–]Spikygrasspod 16 insightful - 14 fun16 insightful - 13 fun17 insightful - 14 fun -  (0 children)

That medium article complains that Criado Perez mentions police uniforms being dangerous because they don't fit well over large breasts, and that this is exclusionary and transphobic. I am not a police woman, and even if I were, I don't have a large bust. I have invented a new term, small-bust-exclusionary-researcher-feminist, and I now intend to slander Criado Perez for her exclusionary work. SBERF! Also, NPERF! (Non-policewoman-exlusionary-researcher-feminist). Criado Perez needs to think specifically about me before she researches anything. /s

[–]Realwoman 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

"There are declarations of her saying she does not want to be called ‘cis’, that she’s ‘a woman’. This is the same argument some men make about not wanting to be called men, because ‘we are all people’."

Where are those men that don't want to be called men? Yeah, I thought so, they don't exist, only TIMs don't want to be called men, but they don't want to be called people instead, they want to be called women.

[–]msteacherlady 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Mini peak. Maybe four years ago my ears perked up at an NPR interview - a female physician talking about essentially the same topic regarding medicine and mental health. After the break they took callers. What must have been a TiM caught the guest off guard when he castigated her for not including transwomen. I was incensed! No one is obligated to include any particular thing in their research or interest.The very topic was about how women are wrongly served by the medical community because of our lack of representation in research data. Trans people could claim the same thing due to the stupid cocktail of hormones they willingly take causing strange yet-to-be-researched interactions with other medications, but it reads like "let's continue to ignore women."

Back then this whole trans thing was barely on my radar, but I was livid.

[–]VioletRemi 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I actually almost died to this thing. I have pretty poor health, and I have heart attacks every 1.5~2 years. And once I was in different city, and there happened attack. Doctor was young doctor, and he was trying to do things he usually do, but they were not helping, and he was not sure why. Good that I was not alone there and my friend insisted on getting doctor from other clinic as fast as possible. And that other doctor actually helped me. And it is all because heart and veins are placed a bit differently, body is a bit different, and hormones (like progesterone, which transwomen are not taking) have influence on how heart attacks are different in women bodies. And that young doctor was only managing men before, and in university he was only studying on male patients, so he did not knew about differences at all. And it was eye openner to him. I hope he became more capable specialist after that and learned differences in sexes biology.

So this transwomen cry about "why book is not about us too?" is disgusting and can cost lifes. Why they even bother, their male body is already very studied, and if I was transwoman - that young doctor would cure me no time, because "estrogen pills" are not changing any physiology at all, only growing some extra fats around their body. Their habbits are still staying men habbits as well. So book is in no way about them or should touch them at all. It is same as trasnwomen will come to nuclear physicist and ask them to study carbon chemistry too, or they are transphobic.

[–]msteacherlady 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am so glad you made it through that and I am so tired, and also scared for myself and other women, that these kind of stories are all too common. Everywhere you look there's situations where women are expected to be the accommodating ones, wether it's our health needs, to prison housing, to bathrooms. Men do not have to give up anything while women are tacitly supposed to give up our spaces and needs.

[–]MezozoicGay[S] 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry, it is "Invisible Women". I never can learn this differences in "woman" and "women", "man" and "men" in English language, all the time writing the wrong one.

[–]purrfect 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hate it, that this awful ideology is making scientists look like fools. Very few are speaking out against it out of fear, while most are propping it up, not with data and science, but by repeating cult-like mantras. It's embarrassing. I never thought scientists were above stupid beliefs, but I did think they tended to have some immunity and they were more difficult to get to. Not anymore.

[–]MezozoicGay[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Medical clinics and pharmacepcy are making a lot of money on this. While other people just prefer to be silent. Some doctors are rebelling against this, tho.