all 43 comments

[–]FediNetizen 37 insightful - 1 fun37 insightful - 0 fun38 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Where is this narrative coming from? The sexual assaults are only part of the issue. Ellen has been known for being abusive towards her staff (and just generally unpleasant when you meet her in person when the cameras aren't rolling) for years, and it's finally catching up with her.

[–]Anon123[S] 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I already explained this. Neo-liberal idpol cancel culture is the narrative. Existing as a rich, white woman is the ultimate crime, according to the "left" (I say this as a leftist), let alone being a gay woman that isn't considered woke enough. She committed wrong think that the left didn't like, so they came for her.

I read the stories, bro. She's not "abusive". She an asshole - which has been known for years - but being an asshole is not a fucking crime, and it's fucking height gaslighting and misogyny we're focusing on Ellen being an asshole when the male producers of the show were sexually assaulting women and the network was apparently not paying workers enough.

[–]terfy_delight 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've been trying to find out exactly what SHE did before I form an opinion and literally all I can find is that she's mean. Seriously that's all I can find about her. Is that really the extent of her role in all this? I've been struggling to understand why these men behind the scenes sexually assaulting women aren't being put on blast. And as messed up as this is, the workplace complaints about sick time and whatnot are par for the course working in America w/ our shitty labor laws. That's a widespread labor issue. Of course it should be address- but how do we get cancel Ellen from that. I'm still going to try to get more info before I get an opinion, but it really just sounds like more woke, lets attack the "mean" woman bs.

ETA: I also think most people don't even understand what exactly the accusations are against her, bc nobody clearly states it. I think they're just having fun dogpiling on the mean lesbian who is successful despite not performing femininity.

[–]PassionateIntensity 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't know what I think of Ellen but it feels like bullying and reminds me of her being blackballed when she came out. I don't believe the people cancelling her have good intentions or care about real issues.

[–]Anon123[S] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, thank you! See, I'm not saying Ellen is a perfect person...but people are literally blaming Ellen for sexual assaults that had nothing to do with her and a toxic workplace environment when there's a team of people that handle staff relations and work duties and a network whose responsible for pay and workplace culture, and I find that misogynistic and insane. They just couldn't wait to take a powerful woman down.

[–]uroborosjohnson 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know where I stand on the Ellen issue yet, but a good illustration of your point is this Washington Post article about the situation.

It didn't get to anything even potentially cancel-worthy until the very end, and instead presents a series of tweets from other people (and a YOUTUBE COMMENT) as supporting evidence. What the fuck is happening to journalism.

If she's really an abusive boss and then okay, but a photo with a republican, a conversation with someone who made homophobic remarks, and some joke about a birthday party (?) should not justify the cancelling of a gay icon. We already have enough of a communication problem in the modern world. It's not like Ellen doesn't know the hurt and pain of homophobia.

[–]Bananastic 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Exactly there is a smear campaign against her and the worst they found about her was that she was sometimes rude lmao. And yet that didn't stop them they consider a woman not being smiling and polite 100% of the times is a good enough reason to try to ruin her life.

This is honestly one of the biggest sexist joke of our time.

I remember even misogynist men of reddit were kind of suspicious after the 147 article saying she didn't say hello to someone once and that's telling a lot. The one time bodyguard recounting the story of her not saying hello to him at the oscar ceremony like he was having war flashbacks is one of the funniest.

The only thing really interesting thing in this story would be to know who wants ellen out of the picture and for what reason.

[–]FediNetizen 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Exactly there is a smear campaign against her and the worst they found about her was that she was sometimes rude lmao

No smear campaign, she just actually sucks. This goes beyond mere rudeness; she's been known to be abusive to her staff and random service workers for years. I first heard about this stuff years ago as well, but here's a Twitter thread of stories about Degeneres being mean. There a quite a few of them.

[–]LilianH 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Most of the ones I can see are nonsense, as if they were expecting Ellen to pay personal attention to them and because she didn't then she is rude and distant. Oh and another claiming she is cold because she has the air conditioning turned up on stage. There is so many outright lies and made-up stories in that thread it's impossible to tell if any are actually real.

[–]FediNetizen 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are certainly some nonsense ones in there, but it's not like everyone thought Degeneres was great until this twitter thread; the stories have been circulating for years. Here's one of Chris Farah in 2014 talking about when she was a waitress that served Ellen, and Ellen complained to her manager because Farah had a chip on her nail polish.

[–]Anon123[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Dude, did you not read what I said? I already referenced that thread and why it's bogus. He was literally offering money to a charity to people if they tweeted bad stories about her.

[–]sudd3nclar1ty 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a very thoughtful post OP, you've definitely provided context and powerful facts that highlight how and why a successful lesbian entertainer is being targeted.

Most importantly, it is to shift attention away from institutional abuse by men, both sexual and financial.

Secondly, it is related to wrong think as you indicated so clearly. In particular, TIMs wanting to burn the witch.

Ty for writing such a persuasive and well-researched post. You rocked it!

[–]jkfinn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And yet that didn't stop them they consider a woman not being smiling and polite 100% of the times is a good enough reason to try to ruin her life.

That's always been my biggest problem with her--too facile a smile, too facile laughter, over almost everything no matter whether it deserves it or not...those watery blue eyes smiling & roaring over all kinds of things she should refrain from promoting. That, and that she definitely follows "the different strokes for different folks" philosophy, as do most of the people whom she interviews. Who wants to wade through 100 shows to find one with a little challenge and controversy.

[–][deleted] 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The attack against her started right after she had that TIM on her show. It’s just culminating over the past few months. Apparently the TIM has been bad mouthing her in his country’s channels and TV show calling her distant and cold. I don’t think this is happening out of the blue.

[–]LilianH 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Early than that, when she made Bruce Jenner look like the homophobic bigot he is for highlighting that he was against gay marriage.

[–]denverkris 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I always responded to those people by saying, "Well, I'm against divorce", and then just give them a shitty ass look like they're some sort of sicko for being divorced.

[–]Hard_headed_woman 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I read that Ellen was rude because she didn't visit with her guests before the show. My educated guess is that she prefers a spontaneous greating that is real when she meets her guests for the first time on camera.

For that she was described as "cold" and "unfriendly."

Seriously?

I wonder how many guests Johnny Carson chatted with before they came out on stage?

[–]Killer_Danish 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Misogyny sells, ladies. That's why there's "Karen," but no male equivalent. And on this one, the lesbophobes can pile on!

[–]fijupanda 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thanks for this. I had no idea what was going on with the whole Ellen "scandal". Shit, I thought she beat someone up or something.

[–]Criticalofgender 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I mean, I personally don't like Ellen. From her friendship with Bush to her complaints about living in her millionaire mansion during the pandemic, she doesn't seem like a genuine and "nice" person. I absolutely don't support the harassment and the "cancel culture" in any way, shape or form, and I'm sure she's receiving this treatment mainly because she is not "nice enough as a woman should be", however, as a host, and an entertainer, certainly you have to be at least friendly to your audience and your guests. And last but not least, I absolutely believe that she can be a nightmare of a boss, and more in the Hollywood world.

Despite that, she's is not responsible for any assault or any violent encounter made by men, I don't know if people are really assuming this but I've not read anyone blaming her for any assault. I've always thought that people didn't really like her because of how entitled and condescending she was.

[–]uroborosjohnson 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If I'm not mistaken, she mentioned that covid lockdown felt like "jail". Now if people want to interpret that in the least charitable way possible and think that she actually meant staying in her home was as bad as being in jail, then I have a hard time taking them seriously. There's something to be said for good faith interpretation. I really don't think that Ellen thinks her house is as bad as jail, and if I did I'd also have to cancel just about everyone who jokes that something "makes them want to die" any other common hyperbolic turn of phrase.

[–]Criticalofgender 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To be honest, you're absolutely right about that! I guess I've been influenced by what the majority are saying! However the Bush comments and her condescending tone it's a no from me, but I totally agree with you on that!

[–]uroborosjohnson 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I definitely don't think the backlash against her is totally unfounded, but just that the social media pile-on is exaggerating things a bit

[–]Veneficca 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Ellen stories remind me of how I've seen female executives treated over the years. There are always stories about them being snobby or cold or demanding, while truly terrible male executives are accepted until they get physically abusive. Exalted men are expected to be brusque, give commands, ignore low-level staff, maintain alliances with powerful men of dubious integrity as part of "playing the game." But high-achieving women must constantly demonstrate humility and deference to prove they don't feel superior to others.

To me, the question isn't "is Ellen rude? flawed?" but "is Ellen behaving more rudely than other male celebrities?" I virtually never hear about famous men being "mean" and "staff are told to never look them in the eye" and that kind of thing, only sexual harassment/abuse stories are circulated. Yet most of the male celebrities I've met act like gods and everyone scrambles to take care of their needs with jaw-dropping subservience. So whenever I hear that a female politician, actor or celebrity is arrogant.... Maybe they are but I'll start giving a shit when people hold male celebrities to the same standard.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If Ellen is being canceled for being a two-faced asshole, every two-faced asshole in Hollywood should be canceled. That will never happen though, because cancel culture only works if the person being canceled is a woman and/or a poc.

[–]denverkris 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

As a woman who's kind of an asshole myself, I can sympathize with her on this point. I work in a male dominated field, and I can assure that I get accused of being a bitch/asshole/whatever else in MANY circumstances where no one would even bat an eye if I was a man. Why are women expected to "be nice" all the time? So she's an asshole. So what? No one is forcing you to interact with her.

" She said she has friends she doesn't agree with politically. Even if we disagree about her saying this (which I do)"

Wait a minute, so you disagree with someone having friends that they politically disagree with? Or you disagree with her saying it aloud? I guess it's just me that doesn't enjoy life's echo chambers?

[–]Anon123[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, I meant I disagree with her assertion that hanging out with politicians that have literally effected millions of people is the same as having friends that simply disagree politically. A politician has actual power. The problem with GWB isn't that he has bad views, it's that he's committed atrocities.

Now, on the other hand, she may have a different approach. She maybe open to being friends with him because he's a powerful person that has powerful information...in the same vein as people that don't want to turn down being invited to the white house just because Trump is president. These are significant opportunities. So, while my first inclination is to disagree, I don't think it makes her bad person. I have no idea of the context of her relationship to him and her thoughts/feelings behind it. It's certainly not cut and dry.

[–]denverkris 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ok ya that makes sense.

[–]Femaleisnthateful 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't doubt there's truth to the fact that she's a mean/ abusive person. Reddit always references that infamous clip of her pushing champagne on Mariah Carey when she wouldn't admit she was pregnant.

I'm old enough to remember her coming-out in the 90s, and how she was pilloried by the Religious Right as Public Enemy #1 ('Ellen Degenerate'). I'm sure she has a lot of anger and misanthropy from her younger days.

That said- why now? Her behaviour has been a known issue for a very long time. What's behind the sudden 'cancellation'? OP raises some interesting points.

[–]marmorsymphata 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Do you guys not remember her slut shaming Taylor Swift until she cried live on air?

[–]Anon123[S] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

What does Ellen being mindless while talking to Taylor Swift have to do with Ellen being targeted by a misogynistic hate campaign?

[–]sallyseton 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol please. No misogynistic campaign when she's risen to the top and hosted the Academy Awards, Grammy Awards and Emmys. Her chat show has won 61 awards and has been on TV for 17 years. She's also a nasty piece of work and people are finally speaking up because of the current climate calling out abusive people.

[–]marmorsymphata 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You seriously believe slut shaming isn't antifeminist?

[–]Konradosho 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wait, what? I remember a few years ago (maybe 2014 or 15) when Taylor Swift was on the show and there was no crying involved. She like, sang a number and did an interview and I think they wore similar clothes. When did this happen?

[–]emptiedriver 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

there are so many comments like "I never liked..." or "I always heard..." but how many of the people who say things like that had anything like contact with her? How much is just rumor based on whether they like her show, or exaggerations of moments that would have been dismissed if they felt differently about the person? Take one of these anecdotes and imagine it's told about Obama or Seth Myers or Anderson Cooper... does it change everything or is it sort of a vague rumor you want to know more about the source of?

On Wikipedia, it says she had 135 employees - were they spreading this information? or busy working and it was just people who didn't like Ellen that made these claims - I don't know how to tell.

That people were angry about the Kevin Hart interview is so annoying to me. She is encouraging forgiveness and moving forward. What other way is there? Didn't the left just celebrate John Lewis, who forgave a KKK member who came to his office to ask for that second chance...?

I don't know much about this situation, to be fair, but it doesn't sit well with me. Thanks for bringing it up at least.

[–]Oof_Too_Humid 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a valuable perspective and a good reminder. I never liked Ellen's show and the totality of the things I've heard about her do not make me feel sorry for her. However, you are absolutely correct that women are held to different bullshit standards than men. I see it all the time and I've seen it for decades. As a young woman I came to see that women in the workplace were assigned roles like "bitch", "mom", "flirt". It's been galling to see how men can just "be". They don't have to constantly check themselves or their words or their demeanor.
I guess one final point though is that we should be careful to not give "get out of jail free" cards to people based on their "intersectionality". To me, Ellen was too much of a shitty boss to get a pass because she's a woman. Man or woman, I wouldn't want to work for someone like that. So I'm not going to defend her. But like you say, you just don't hear these types of stories about male celebrities--mainly because it's "OK" for men to act like "bitches" (ha!).
Anyway, thanks for this good food for thought. It is absolutely worth pondering.

[–]sallyseton 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah Ellen owns this. She's finally being called out for her abusive behaviour.

[–]Overdrive 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Was Ellen the one who didn't want employees to chew gum? I think a while ago, those were the kinds of things people were "speaking up" about and it was bullshit. No one should be damning someone for being a hard ass boss. If you don't like them, and you don't like the pay, then leave.

If you ever work directly for a celebrity you won't believe the amount of strange quirks you'd be dealing with. Like Snoop's personal joint roller lol

[–]Complicated-Spirit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

People should totally be damning people for being a hard ass boss. No one has the right to make other people feel like shit over petty requests.

My take on all this is that I think it’s been pretty well established that Ellen’s a shitty person. I think it’s probably been swept under the rug because one, it’s expected of Hollywood celebrities to be shitty people, and two, it goes against her friendly, down-to-earth image. But even just seeing the way she interacts with guests makes my skin crawl. Being a lesbian and being a woman doth not make one untouchable for a feminist. You can be a lesbian and still be a shitty person and deserve to be called out on it.

However, it IS notable how sexual assault against women by men on her staff has allegedly taken place, and that’s taken a far back seat to stories of Ellen behaving rudely and in a mean-spirited way. We can’t help but notice that, when comparing the mass reactions, it seems that society is far more appalled (and enthralled) at the news of a privately surly lesbian talk show host than they are at the idea of men raping and groping women. Go figure.

[–]Overdrive 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Of course they have the right to. They are your boss and they are paying you. You have the freedom to leave just like they have the freedom to fire you. Shitty work environments exist on every damn street. The pretense of a lot of positions are this way. In fact they will make people feel tired, stressed, hungry, irritated, sad, and all over petty requests. That is why we get paid for them.

Go ahead and call her out on it, that'd be your right if you thought you were unjustly treated. However no one is suing Ellen for being an asshole. She did nothing wrong and broke no laws by being an asshole. Best thing you can do is avoid her, not damn her.

And idk it seems like the rape allegations are pretty much in the forefront right now. However there has been this unshed anger at Ellen that is now all coming swimming back and wrapping around it. Kind of swallows it so I agree to a point I guess.

[–]Jksmiddlefinger 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She did plenty wrong and deserves to be fired. She is ultimately responsible for what happens behind the scenes on her show because all staff ultimately answer to her. How do you think those sexual predator producers were able to operate for so long and with impunity? Because Ellen had a sociopathic level of distain for her own employees to such an extent that they were too afraid to speak out about actual sexual abuse and harassment from her own producers for fear of getting fired just for trying to speak to her! It was that level of toxic. And that’s if we believe she never heard any rumors of their behavior in the nearly 2 decades the show has been running. She made her career off the back of representing an oppressed minority group, pushing for inclusion, kindness and tolerance in society but failed to walk the walk in her own life.

Seriously she can sod off and that’s about as politely as I can put it.

[–]Jksmiddlefinger 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m not going to waste any energy on defending Ellen because I can’t, she deserves the criticism that’s come her way. This is the Ellen who fired her camera crew during the pandemic and replaced them with non union staff, the Ellen that fired her comedy writer of 7 years that wouldn’t break a writer’s strike for her because her writing career would have been screwed if she did? the Ellen that wouldn’t allow her own employees to even look at her? or the interns to even be in the same room? That Ellen?

These things in of themselves, whilst assholish, aren’t illegal but what they show is someone who has no empathy or care for her own staff. This is significant because her behavior has directly fostered an environment that allowed sexual predators to act with impunity because staff are literally unable to talk to her without fear of getting fired. That’s if we accept the narrative that she didn’t know about any of it during the 20 years the show has been on the air. What tops it off is the total non apology email she sent out where she played the victim and refused to accept any responsibility.

She’s been called out not because she’s a woman or gay or because of some patriarchal conspiracy but because she’s a piece of shit and the media company that employed her are canning her before they get sued.

[–]sallyseton 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fuck yeah. To all of it. I remember when she fired Karen Kilgariff. I bet Ellen quits before they finish the investigation because hooo boy there are stories.