Numbers. I'm looking for numbers and data. I've actually started arguing IRL and they want numbers for proof.

submitted by Oof_Too_Humid from self.GenderCritical

I need advice on how to respond to demands for numbers.
Examples - how many kids are "actually" put on puberty blockers, how many teenage girls "actually" have their breasts removed, how many "actual" detransitioners are there?
How the hell would I have these numbers?

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[–]firebird 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm going to link to some articles that might be of interest. Hope there's something among it that might help!

Articles about percentage of desisters:

http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html

https://archive.is/jyQVD

Article about the amount of mastectomies in one center: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6759454/

Percentage of mastectomies for TIFs: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31624695/

Prison related numbers: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/

AGP numbers: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22005209/

Study stating that the autism/transgender overlap is higher in TIFs: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1750946719301540

There's lots I couldn't find data on, though. Or there was data, but only from sources that were biased in some way. I did find articles that referenced the fact that there's a lot not yet researched, things that aren't known yet...

[–]Oof_Too_Humid[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is wonderful!

[–]jkfinn 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://4thwavenow.com/ This site may give an idea of the extent of the harm. You can look around... maybe under all the research articles you could do word searches, or possible you can post these questions (cannot recall). But I know your quandary--been up against it many times and I often suspect the sincerity of the questions.

[–]Oof_Too_Humid[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree--I doubt the sincerity of the questions, and I'm sure that when I have answers they'll just pooh-pooh them anyway. But, I'll keep researching since it certainly can't hurt to know more and spread that knowledge around. I will go to 4thwavenow.com and see what I can find. (I've been there before and really like it, I just haven't been there on this particular mission.)

[–]jkfinn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, it's like a "mission." You feel often like they should be the ones doing the work, not you.

[–]fuckingsealions 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Off label voluntary use of these meds--I would argue one is too many.

[–]ThisReality 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's what I'd say too. One is too many, when unnecessary surgeries and off-label meds and hormones with long-term consequences are involved, for people who aren't even legally adults and are unable to legally make these decisions for themselves.

If they wouldn't think it was okay for kids to join a different kind of cult, why is this cult any different? How many kids is an acceptable number to encourage into thinking their bodies are wrong and defective and must be corrected?

[–]fuckingsealions 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm excited to "attend" Can I Get A Witness? this weekend. Hoping there will be some discussion of how to support girls. My teen will be watching with me.

[–]Oof_Too_Humid[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, I agree. I've been thinking about the "off-label" status of these drugs. Does that give immunity from liability to the pharmaceutical companies that sell them? Sweet set up for them if that's the case.

[–]fuckingsealions 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't even think of that! Sounds like roughly speaking from the FDA guidelines, once a drug is approved is ok.

https://www.fda.gov/patients/learn-about-expanded-access-and-other-treatment-options/understanding-unapproved-use-approved-drugs-label

[–]firebird 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Someone on the sub gave me this link and I thought you might appreciate it as well: https://forwomen.scot/did-you-know/

[–]Oof_Too_Humid[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is so rich with content. I'm digging in!

[–]Oof_Too_Humid[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Archived: http://archive.vn/9ZCBb

[–]firebird 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Found another one: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/article/sex-gender-and-gender-identity-a-reevaluation-of-the-evidence/76A3DC54F3BD91E8D631B93397698B1A/core-reader

The "children and adolescents" part in particular has some interesting (and heartbreaking) information.

[–]Oof_Too_Humid[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm going to read it. Absolutely heartbreaking about the kids and young people. This is purposeful experimentation and exploitation. What's behind it? One driver is money for sure. Pharmaceutical companies, therapists, surgeons -- all raking in money from this revenue stream. But, even though I know it's true, I'm having such a hard time fathoming that there are so many people in these industries/professions who are more than willing to hurt children in such extreme ways in order to make a buck. Well, we must persevere and try to shine light on this nightmare.
Thanks again for sending these resources my way.

[–]Oof_Too_Humid[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Archived: http://archive.vn/uNCOv

[–]firebird 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What's behind it? One driver is money for sure.

It definitely is, someone did some digging: https://thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/