all 25 comments

[–]RevengeOfTheCis 59 insightful - 2 fun59 insightful - 1 fun60 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

This doesn't surprise me at all. When I was going through my TIF phase, a therapist tried to get me on T after only 2 appointments. By the 3rd appointment she told me she literally couldn't help me with my issues if I didn't try T.

The truth is, I think she WOULDN'T help me if I didn't try T.

I'm sorry to hear about your acquaintance.

ETA: Just realized my comment will probably make people curious whether I ever went on T, and the answer is no, I did not.

[–]Killer_Danish 33 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Do these therapists get kickbacks for prescribing these drugs? Investigative journalists need to go down that rabbit hole... Because I suspect there's a financial incentive for how many people these gender therapists sign-up for prescriptions, surgery, etc...

Reminds me Scientology and the Operating Thetan levels...

[–]spicyramen 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it's a long read but there was a really good medium article looking into the pharmaceutical industry's gross part in this:

[–]InvisibleWoman 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is always a relevant read

[–]RevengeOfTheCis 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know and while I can't say much because I don't want to dox myself, I will say I later found out that therapist was a member of several of the big TRA organizations, and she participates in all kinds of pro-trans events. While I don't know whether she was getting any financial kickbacks or anything, I have no doubt she wanted the clout of working with as many trans patients as possible.

[–]jelliknight 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)


[–]PassionateIntensity 34 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 0 fun35 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's no gate-keeping anymore. We've been telling you. It's the Orwellian-ly titled "informed consent." It's not malpractice because there's no standard-of-care. Everything the left says about there being all these hoops and therapy and permissions and age limits -- are lies. You can walk in off the street and get hormones in your first 30-minute appt. And you can even get them as a minor, without parental permission. They're routinely doing mastectomies on 14/15 yo girls and genital surgery on 16/17 yo boys, and doctors and activists are pushing for younger and younger. It's the Wild Wild West.

[–]luckystar 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Literally just mass sterilization of gay and lesbian youth.

[–]Anonimouse 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But also, it's really fucking hard for women to access treatments that would improve quality of life by reduce fertility in case they want kids later. But if I say I'm a man, I no longer have that attachment to the painful organs?

[–]SanityIsGC 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My understanding is that most TIM don't go under the knife, they only take hormones. (surgery they do embrace is cosmetic ie reducing the jawline etc)

[–]luckystar 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's true for adults but in the case of kids/teens, once they get put on the hormone blockers they get railroaded into the hormones and then the surgery. Jackie Green, Jazz Jennings etc being prominent examples. It's actually quite weird that for adults the argument is "you don't need bottom dysphoria or surgery to be VaLiD" but then for kids the argument is "chop it all off as young as possible".

In both of the 2 cases I mentioned, the boys never went through male puberty and thus never developed an adult male body (so they were 16/18 year olds with the penis of an 8 year old), and as such there wasn't enough material for the construction of the vaginoplasty, causing even more complications. (And we only know all this because both of them have creepy moms insistent on spilling every detail to the media to grab more attention). Jazz said [s]he has never orgasmed or even felt sexual arousal! idk how common that is but you'd think at some point they'd start to think maybe this isn't actually the best course of treatment for having a son that likes to play with dolls and wear dresses

[–]MarkTwainiac 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

IMO, none of the doctors doing trans-related surgeries on reproductive organs, or medically unwarranted double mastectomies on girls and young women, can be considered ethical or reputable.

Now that a lot of surgery is being done in free-standing clinics or suites rather than in hospitals, it seems many of these doctors don't have to abide by the same ethical standards or go through the same review processes and oversight procedures that doctors in hospitals used to all be subject to routinely, and still often are subject to in many medical settings. Also, many surgeons who do trans surgeries seem to be running their own shops with no supervision, nor even any peer-level colleagues likely to challenge or question them.

When these doctors do get into trouble with supervisors and regulators because of their own lack of ethical standards, or because too many medical malpractice suits have been filed against them, it seems they customarily move to another state and begin anew there. Curtis Crane MD is one such doctor. So is the guy who used to be at the U of Miami Med School & Center who lost his position for posting on social media pics of his patients' severed penile skin that he'd made into heart shapes on a tray. However, I don't know if the "top surgeon" who's posted pics of buckets filled with all the breasts he's removed has been professionally censured for his vile behavior.

Is your acquaintance female? If so, and she's still young (teens to near 50), she's not already given birth to at least two children, and she has no life-threatening or other serious, major medical condition for which hysterectomy long has been considered a reasonable and prudent treatment, she'd find it pretty much impossible to get her reproductive organs removed by a reputable ob/gyn and conventional hospital.

But use the magic words "trans" and "gender affirming," and the usual rules are being thrown out the window nowadays even by decent doctors and hospitals with otherwise high ethical standards.

If your friend is male, there might be different standards when it comes to removing/reconfiguring the reproductive organs. The custom of doing "sex reassignment surgeries" that involve castration on males goes back much further, and until recently most of the patients seeking "SRS" used to be males. (Now it's the opposite: hardly any males get their dicks and balls messed with nowadays, and amongst the younger population today, girls and young women are much more likely to seek trans medical surgeries affecting reproductive organs than boys and men are.)

Ever since trans-affirming genital surgeries first became a thing, a good number - in fact, the majority - of the males seeking out such surgeries have been middle-aged men who've already fathered a number of children. Jan Morris, Renee Richards, Jenner, Marci Bowers, Zoe Tur, Martine Rothblatt, India Willoughby, Debbie Hayton, Jennifer Pritzker and thousands of other men like them are typical in that they decided they were really women born in men's bodies after they had been been putting their dicks inside female bodies for years or decades and had succeeded in impregnating their wives/partners - in most cases, multiple times.

As a result, the issue of fertility loss/preservation seems not to be as much of a core consideration in "trans medicine" that got built into the field from the very start the way it is in most other fields of medicine such as oncology and, of course, gynecology. Moreover, the doctors doing trans-related surgeries today tend to come from medical specialties and have mindsets that aren't necessarily concerned all that much with such matters as their patients' fertility, sexual functioning, or longterm health.

Traditionally, removal of female reproductive organs have been done pretty much exclusively by extensively-trained ob-gyns because these are major operations that involve removal of internal organs. Whereas castration of males involves only removal of external organs, and is a much simpler procedure that was done worldwide long before modern medicine and surgery were developed: hence the castrati, and the routine castration done to black African males taken into captivity during the Arab and Ottoman slave trades that go back to the 7th century.

Today, a lot of trans-related genital surgeries done on males - and now apparently some done on females as well - are being performed by urologists and/or cosmetic or general surgeons, not specialists in the female reproductive organs. Similarly, all the labioplasties, "vaginal rejuventation" surgeries and other such procedures now being done on the external genitals of females for aesthetic reasons are not being done by ob-gyns whose focus is on women's health. They're being done by cosmetic or plastic surgeons for the $$$.

At the same time, many of the doctors willing to do trans-related genital surgeries on young people before they've procreated nowadays might be a bit more blithe about destroying a male's fertility than a female's because of sexism. Sexist people tend to think being able to be a father is not as important or central to male psychological well-being as they assume being able to bear children is to female mental health.

This could be one of the reasons that the various doctors who rendered Jazz Jennings infertile by putting him on puberty blockers at 11, and estrogen at 12, and then surgically castrated him when he was only 17 were all so breezy about it. If those doctors - and Jazz's parents - truly did see Jazz as real girl/young woman, I doubt they would've been so quick to destroy Jazz's ability to procreate. On the contrary, they very likely would've cautioned Jazz against blocking puberty and having his gamete-producing organs surgically removed, saying that many girls and women who have zero interest in having children in their teens and 20s find that later on in their 30s they change their minds and decide they do want to have a child after all.

[–]divingrightintowork 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

A doctor friend of mine brags about how good it feels rubber stamping the cross sex hormone / cross sex surgical procedures of patients who come to see him as a GP, no questions asked, and how good it feels when they tell him that he's not like "other doctors."

I hope he gets sued for malpractice because he didn't do any due diligence and some woman came around post-manic episode only to realize that she doesn't really have a 'male gender soul,' and anyone could have figured out she was just having a manic episode if they had done any due diligence (I don't hope he gets sued because I hope he doesn't greenlight anyone who isn't going to benefit from these procedures but we all know that's highly unlikely)

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is there a quote? I've read it and it's a long article - is there a doctor that is like "I'm just helping people be their best self" ?

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I know this is selfish but it really pisses me off that doctors bend over backwards to cater to trans people yet at 28 and of sound mind I can't get my tubes tied because "yOU MIghT REGreT iT!!11!!ONE1!! YOu dOnT knOW WHaT yoU wANt!!!!111!!!"

[–]Shinjin_Nana 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or that women who have had cancer don't get reconstructive breast implants.... but some moid in prison has a human right to them.

[–]Iridescence 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to frequent the childfree sub on Reddit (still childfree, just don't participate in the community anymore) and there would quite regularly be posts (mostly by women) about how difficult it was to get their doctors to agree to sterilisation processes. Maybe if they just tried saying they felt non-binary instead!

[–]materialrealityplz 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In a few years, there is going to be a tidal wave of women who will realize they were lied to and fucked up their bodies for nothing.

[–]dandeliondynasty 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yiiiikes. I really hope this person doesn’t regret it later. What country/region are you in if you don’t mind?

[–]Criticalofgender 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, that's terrible. In my country you can access to T with just a 15 minutes consult but, wow, this has to be another level. This is truly horrifying.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, just want to add that this laxity is not new in the field of "transition medicine." It's been built in from the start. So it's a feature, not a bug.

Georges Burou, the physician in Casablanca, Morocco who was the first surgeon in the world to pioneer penile inversion "vaginoplasty" in "transsexual" males in the 1950s, operated on thousands of males from around the world over the following decades. Burou was well known for not doing any psych or extensive medical evaluations on his patients. If a guy had the money, obtained proper travel documents, made an appointment, booked a flight and showed up in Burou's clinic and had healthy BP, a normal EKG, and no glaringly obvious risk factors that would've made surgery super risky, he'd be admitted and prepped for surgery the next day - no questions asked.

However, Burou did refuse to operate on minors. Officially, Burou claimed "all of his vaginoplasty patients to have been prepared, to have undergone psychiatric care, and hormonal therapy," but in reality he did not. From the entry about him on Wikipedia:

...patient Jan Morris wrote that Burou did not bother too much with diagnosis or previous treatment. Burou later confirmed that he did not ask his patients too many questions, but sought to fulfil their wishes, and that he did restrict his services to male-to-female (MTF) transsexuals with a distinct “feminine” appearance or character. He refused his services to minors even if they had parental consent, because he felt “the operation is definitive and irreversible and one… could not risk making a mistake.” His international patients were often admitted the afternoon they arrived at the clinic, and were prepared for surgery as soon as that evening or the next morning.

Burou died in 1987, but by then tons of other "sex change" clinics had been set up around the world. Most of these have very lax standards. When Johns Hopkins started doing "sec change" operations in the USA in the 1960s, it made extensive psych evals mandatory and instituted strict gatekeeping in order to try to weed out males with "unseemly" motives.

In part because the Hopkins program was the basis for the fictional Baltimore hospital where Hannibal Lecter worked in "The Silence of The Lambs" - and it rejected Buffalo Bill from "sex reassignment surgery" due to his being an AGP with sociopathic and murderous tendencies - many people think that "gatekeeping" has always been the norm for all clinics, hospitals and physicians involved in "trans medicine" throughout the world. But in fact, this is not the case.

[–]Oof_Too_Humid 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The DSM-5 requirements for a gender dysphoria diagnosis:
--"involves a difference between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, and significant distress or problems functioning".
--it has to last "at least six months" and
--is shown by at least 2 of 6 criteria.

But hey, maybe a diagnosis of gender dysphoria isn't required before they start carving up body parts.

[–]Nona_Biba 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

jesus christ