What's the deal with TIFs?

submitted by msteacherlady from self.GenderCritical

I'm sorry, I just had a mildly obnoxious observation of a TIF clerk at my co-op today and it's brought up some stuff. I don't know if it's the T or what, but they tend to have certain behaviors that rub me the wrong way. It makes me really curious what it's like for detrans gals and if they've noticed the same thing in themselves.

So, there's this co-op I've been going to for over a decade. It's liberal bastion, I mean, I fit right in. Over the last few years, it's like they add a new TIF every year. You know, you get your little training ENBY pin on your apron, shave one side of your head, and then once you sign up 10 members you start wearing co-op baseball caps backwards and graduate to MAN. That's my pet theory anyhow. One of them seems fine and works at the customer service desk, but the other two are so damned rude. A few years ago there was a massive store reorganization and I asked one of them where the apple cider vinegar was at. She couldn't even make eye contact with me. She just grunted and pointed -that a way-->. Like, a year before she had grown out her mustache she was able to talk to people, so what gives? Is this supposed to be what men act like? Cuz...the men that work there seem capable of putting together a sentence. Today wasn't that big of a deal, just watching one of the TIFs at the other register being rude to one of the female checkers (who is always friendly and efficient) as they changed shifts. I'm sorry, I just think their attitude stinks, and their claim of personal suffering is no excuse. I've been through shit in my life, and while I've had my days of weakness, in general I can still treat the people around me with some humanity.

So I'm reminded of this one gal who I crossed paths with every other day at the community gym. She just looked like your typical butchy lesbian. After not seeing her for awhile, she turned up again, sans breasts, and with some faint facial hair. She never worked in the weight room before, but suddenly, there she was pumping iron. We didn't interact much but there was one time that just made me laugh. So it was leg day and I was taking up space in front of the mirror doing one-legged deadlifts for warmup. Did I mention I was in my 2nd trimester? She was pacing behind me and sighing dramatically before finally setting up her own deadlift bar. I went to get a big girl plate off the rack but she grunted in front of me rudely and grabbed a 25 and then sighed at me again like I was in the way. So my pregnant ass got my 45s, set up my bar, and did my workout. Went all the way up to 210lbs before I was done and cooled down for some yoga on the mats. (Yes, my baby turned out fine). Her deadlift routine never went higher than 115. I mean, I do not judge anyone's workouts because everyone should do what's right for them (hell, my husband doesn't even squat as heavy as me!) but it's pretty fuckin' rich when someone's acting like you're taking up their rightful gym space when they ain't even lifting as much. I don't put up with that bullshit from men trying to pull that attitude and from my experience, no one, men and women, likes those guys either. Why would you want to copy that? I think this little slice of life really demonstrates how fucking stupid gender is anyway. If a pregnant chick can still out-lift you then how the fuck is lifting heavy gender affirming? Makes you feel like a real man don't it, until I mince around with the bar just as well. Get outta here with this gender conforming bullshit.

Oh, and I saw some dumb thing on Reddit where a TIF was complaining about a TIM taking up all the air at some LBGTQ+ meeting and that was an indication of female privilege...amiright fellas, females always be talking right? Right? Just why, why do TIFs want to have a go at misogyny? Like, that's the part of masculinity to perform.

Anyway, thanks for giving me the space to dump a big ol' tl;dr

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[–]Comatoast 39 insightful - 5 fun39 insightful - 4 fun40 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

It might be that some of them are thinking misogyny is part and parcel of being a man, which would be pretty shitty. Maybe for some that are dysphoric, they feel so negatively towards the parts of themselves that they found feminine that it extends to anything or anyone feminine at all. It kind of reminds me of extreme cases of homophobia for closeted people, that extreme aggression towards something that you're secretly a part of but hate so much.

That said, damn. Kudos for having a core and pelvic muscles strong enough to not straight up give birth by prolapse on deadlifts like that.

[–]msteacherlady[S] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reminds me of my husbands alcoholic buddy who early in his recovery was absolutely hateful towards anyone else with addict behavior. I guess when you make a big change like that, you have to kill the external remnants as well? Now the guy works in recovery, so at least he came around.

[–]ShingleShake 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I might be able to give you a little insight (obviously it's based on assumptions but it sounds similar to what I went through). So I'm detrans but when I was transitioning there was this metaphorical staircase to "manhood", and it was like everyone was pushing me up it through their snide remarks and judgements (Ultimately it was my lack of self-identity and confidence that made their words hit as hard as they did, but anyways). I did something too nice? That's feminine. Which would send a pang of guilt and shame that I was female. So I would keep upping my "masculine" personality features slowly until I was basically a non-functioning asshole. It was quite the spectacle. I was so afraid of any judgement that I became a judgemental, socially inept jerk to protect myself. As a dear friend once told me, I was a "child wrapped in a blanket of manly plaid" or something along those lines.

It could be what they're currently going through. In my opinion it seems those that are lacking any control in their life and in how others perceive them can get extremely obsessed with how they're perceived to the point of analyzing everything they say before it even comes out of their mouth. I know I did. Obviously it makes conversation a little difficult.

Whew this is a bit embarrassing to admit, haha.

[–]Comatoast 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We've all done embarrassing things, but you're making an effort to understand how you treated others and that's a massive step in itself. Understanding what made you feel the way that you did and sharing might help others that may be feeling confused about what's going on with themselves too.

[–]msteacherlady[S] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing! That has got to be an awful pressure to put on yourself, the oppressive self-editing. I hope you're feeling freed from that! It's just such a no-win situation. Men can be kind and not have their sex questioned. They may have the misfortune of encountering an asshole policing their masculinity for being too kind, but the general population still knows the guy is a man. From what you're saying, I can see how transmen end up becoming a caricature because how else can you differentiate what's simply just "you" from what might be a trait that gives the charade away. Exhausting.

[–]SanityIsGC 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for posting. A very insightful post that applies to more than just this whole trans phenomena. You are also very articulate. Have you thought of writing a book about your experience or doing some you tube videos?

[–]our_team_is_winning 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'm in awe of your weightlifting ability. And pregnant! As for TIF, I honestly did not know there were so many these days. I feel like it's men who enabled the whole AGP thing, but at the same time it might be other men who shut it all down if TIF intrude on their spaces too much. It would be nice if women had a say in any of this, but the only women I see in "power" (I mean politics or the boss of a company or such) seem to be hardcore libfem champions of TiM. Cutting off healthy breasts -- that's just mutilation. I don't see how it falls within medical ethics to do that. To me, it's a more extreme version of cutting. My friend's daughter went through a disturbing period in her teens, sneaking off to put slashes all up and down her arms. I guess it makes the person feel "in control" (?) to be able to self-harm? I used to be anorexic, and for me I got a "rush" out of being frightfully skeletal and then lecturing other people for eating at all. I was honestly disgusted by people who ate. I wonder if TiF have a similar level of disgust toward women who have any female traits. It's like they want to disappear, so they want you to disappear too? Sorry you've had so many encounters with rude TiF. I wish they could understand that misogyny, facial hair, shaved heads, whatever still doesn't make a woman a man. It just seems to make a hateful woman. Please let all this insanity stop soon.

[–]msteacherlady[S] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I wish it would stop soon too! I started teaching right when the self-harm baton was being handed from anorexia to cutting. Now I'm witnessing the trans thing with girls taking off. I still remember when a favorite student of mine "accidentally" let her sleeve slip and I saw the marks. I got counseling on it and they got her help. Still in touch with her and she is living her best life, it's really wonderful to see. But you see, I can't make that intervention with this trans shit. The first official trans boy in my class had the team of counselors meeting me ahead of time to warn me about pronouns, deadnames, and the problem of the unchangeable photo still in the system that showed her very much presenting as a girl. Had to carefully watch all documents and keep my computer screen from snoops or be sued. But you can't express concern like I used to, because I'd be the asshole. It's very hard to safeguard kids these days.

Oh, side-note, a family friend has a TIM boss who loves warmly "educating" people, but when he can't answer a question, draws a line and chastises the asker for stepping over a boundary before recommending resources for self-educating. By golly that person is a whole post for another day!

[–]our_team_is_winning 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Excellent post and tragic. You see students hurting themselves and you're supposed to intervene. Keeping young people safe is the responsibility of all who work with them. Yet mutilating their bodies and participating in delusional fetishes is NOT on the list of self-harm. Unreal. She cuts her arms = warning sign, needs help. She has lost twenty pounds in the last three weeks = warning sign, needs help. She comes to school with bruises all over her = red flag! Get this girl help! She wants to cut her breasts off = let's celebrate her transition!

[–]msteacherlady[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There are so many things that bother me about the trans movement, but I have to say this is the thing at the top of my list. I feel so powerless. The SWERF crap gets to me as well. My school is a hub for foster youth, and they are heavily targeted for trafficking. No joke we get notifications of incidents where our girls were accosted or contacted and it happens at least a couple times a year. One of our students was actually taken a few years back. It was awful. I'm truly afraid our ability to intervene is being eroded.

[–]our_team_is_winning 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

My school is a hub for foster youth, and they are heavily targeted for trafficking.

That breaks my heart. And knowing the men who would pay for an abused, underage girl are out there roaming freely, standing in line behind me at the supermarket..... how can any of us feel safe?

[–]msteacherlady[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's another layer that really gets to me. The horror of so many vulnerable girls getting taken guts me the most, but it sickens me that it wouldn't happen at all if there wasn't a demand for their bodies. I don't know any exact statistics, but if every man themselves haven't patronized a trafficked prostitute, then they must at least know someone who has. So many men I know and trust swear they would never buy sex and don't know anyone who has, but they have got to be lying.

[–]our_team_is_winning 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The male sex drive needs to be toned way way down. Imagine being a slave to your penis 24/7. Part of me is disgusted by sex doll robots, but at the same time, maybe they'll save lives? What's sad is a lot of women believe sex workers are there of their own accord and just "regulating" the industry makes it all well and good.

[–]msteacherlady[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I seriously think some men get into such a bad habit of treating libido like sneezing and farting. Pair that with objectification of women and well, here's the sad result.

[–]meranii 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

First of all, congrats on the healthy baby! And also congrats on your strength, dayum.

A lot of TiFs have very strong internalized misogyny and, though they always deny it, it plays a large role in their transition and it's why they say "oh I always knew I wasn't like other girls!". When they transition they think letting that misogyny hang out makes them all the more manly, and they probably also bond with shitty bio men that way. TiFs are also generally completely uninterested in feminism or supporting women in general, they really try so hard to be "tough" bros.

[–]msteacherlady[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! The irony is, they will find very little support from men when it comes down to it, and it will still be feminism that gives any damn for them in the end.

[–]PassionateIntensity 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's self-hatred directed outward.

[–]shveya 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

TIFs often have these weirdly cocky attitudes, like they're trying to mimic dude bro behaviour. Fujoshis also have the added layer of being bratty on top of that. You'd think that someone getting roided up on the daily would be physically stronger. lol

[–]jelliknight 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Theyre self hating women. Thats why they transition in the first place.

[–]TurtleFuzz 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Damn girl, you stronk!

[–]msteacherlady[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hell yeah sister! :)

[–]lairacunda 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cuz 'girls are dumb'. It's internalized misogyny.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Co-op shooting themselves in the foot with their hiring policies. You just don't hire people with untreated mental illness for customer service positions.

[–]msteacherlady[S] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Hey all, thanks for the compliments on the weightlifting. It is truly the only exercise that I find "fun" and it's just so good for women to do! Not something I would start while pregnant, but I'm so glad I was able to continue safely for the majority of my pregnancy. It's been a few years, and I'm still working my lift numbers back up. I tell you, while some mothers bounce back like a boomerang, giving birth can really knock you on your ass!

[–]emptiedriver 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have known a couple of trans men who had been butch lesbians, and I also was bothered by attitude shifts I witnessed. I never knew if it was due to biological injections or social concerns, but those rude, space-taking, presumptuous and non-sympathetic ways of behaving became so obvious.

It did also seem like they were encouraged, though - that it was clear when they were being "manly" and that there was a kind of nudging fist-bump approval to a good performance by a lot of those who wanted to support either the friend or the movement... I mean, despite hating it, I even found myself pushing things along in that direction at times, like just saying "dude" more or giving more chin nods, even when I don't do that with male friends and I didn't think they were male. To be nice I approved the stereotype they were trying to live, to a point.

[–]Agodachi 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The TIFs I knew either were big narcissists or really depressed tomboys. This one TIF convinced another girl she was trans, I'm not sure if this other girl had some sort of trauma she was trying to run away from by creating a new identity, but it was SO ODD since she was REALLY feminine- I'm talking wearing the most girly things to school everyday. Anyway, this other girl transitions (gets the whole haircut, dyes hair blue, wears "boy clothes") and one day she decides she's no longer trans. The original TIF was yelling at her saying "you are trans! You are a boy! You are (new male name)!" Plus this other TIF has other girls transitioning too. This girl who apparently detransitioned still goes by her new name sometimes but all I see is that she is so miserable online, making suicide jokes constantly. Scary to see the domino effect happening there. TIFs should be held accountable like their male counterparts.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I believe that if a TIF is a toxic person as you describe, absolutely. I also believe that girls are more likely to be victimized than boys, which might lead more young girls and women to try to become men to escape what they see as a prison of weakness, a body that can only be used at will by others. TIMs can also be motivated by victimization, but are just as likely to simply be AGPs.

[–]Literallyawoman 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Your gender identity is one facet of your whole being and these people think changing it will magically change their lives for the better as a whole-when they’re still the same person with mental health issues and the same life, when they realize no one is going to hand them happiness on a plate just because they have personal struggles, they become even more bitter and self-victimizing.

Their whole concept of gender is incredibly stereotypical and false and they don’t know themselves or accept themselves so they’re miserable.

Self-love doesn’t come from changing your genitalia or dressing a certain way.

[–]Daraincork 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I asked a young guy , late twenties bi , his views on gender. He said Joe Biden was asked how many genders there are . After a pause ' at least three ' he said. 'Now ' said my young friend ' he could have said 300. Or 3000. Because gender is just what other people put on you. Its not real or intrinsic. I don't identify as any gender. I'm biologically male and bisexual. The end'

[–]SameOldBS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A lot of trans-identifying girls are on the autistic spectrum - up to 40% according to research. That would explain, at least in part, the lack of eye contact and seeming rudeness.

[–]msteacherlady[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think this is a great point and it's worth being sensitive to this in general for the autistic people in our community. In this case, when she started working there, she wasn't like that at all. After that encounter I had with her, I told myself she was probably having a bad day. After running into her time and again at the shop I realized this was just her new personality!

[–]Complicated-Spirit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve actually witnessed this at a local pet rescue organization (the organization is still AWESOME, btw) as well as at a local grocery store (two locations, not just one place). Also, an acquaintance witnessed it while they were in the juvenile psychiatric ward in the hospital, a young TIF going off on how she wasn’t a girl because girls were stupid. I think a part of it is internalized misogyny, like this sort of “Hmph, I’ve risen above your level - your pink-wearing, glittery, shallow, gossip-mongering, feather-brained level”, as well as a reminder that no matter what, they’re always going to see you that way. Especially as a self-defense mechanism, if you’re not embodying a womanly gender role like that, like they can “see through you” in the way some men claim to be able to “see through” supposedly intelligent, strong women. Another part is that I think many people, including TIFs, think men just behave that way. That men are just shitty and rude to everyone.

Also, tbh, a lot of TIFs are women that have endured abuse and trauma due to their sex in the past, and now have depression, anxiety, and a whole slew of mental conditions due to it, and they’ve been promised that transitioning will fix everything. That usually means that none of that trauma is being addressed effectively. So they’re still upset. They’re not dealing with it.

[–]divingrightintowork 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

eQaLiTy iS hErE