all 18 comments

[–]lairacunda 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you are going to sue for custody of another woman's child, you'd best have a damn good reason. And unfortunately for you, your husband and the boy, a crazy, unstable, narcissistic mother who wants to trans her kid will not be considered a good enough reason. Find another one, or better yet, several. Prove that she endangers him in tangible ways the authorities will recognize. And don't even mention transing and the dresses. Because like you said, dresses, so what?

[–]halebop[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah this is exactly why we haven't taken any action. The bar is incredibly high and would require that she actually do some damage and we aren't willing to just allow the kids to be harmed so we have always stepped in and called her out so she's either fixed it or done a better job of hiding it at least. The only real tangible thing we had was educational neglect but now no one is going to school so so that won't be helpful anytime soon.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not sure where you live— but document everything. Talk to a family lawyer before the laws get changed to push/allow transitioning. Don’t let her become aware that you’re doing the above until lawyer says so.
She’s abusing him.

Of course, all the above would have to be initiated by the father, since you’re not his bio-mother.

[–]halebop[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We are both concerned I'm just the one asking here because I happen to follow this (is it still called sub here?) and I know there are people that are very knowledgeable about this topic that contribute here as well. I'm sharing the responses with my husband and he's very appreciative as well

[–]jet199 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If I were you I'd start keeping a diary of her and the child's behaviour as well as screenshotting the crazy stuff she posts.

You might need evidence of escalating behaviour.

Have a read of this https://www.transgendertrend.com/young-children/

[–]halebop[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you! She tends to start and delete and change a lot of social media and blogs fairly often but I do have screenshots of her talking about being a sex worker and things to do with the kids. Makes me thankful for my ex and he's no saint himself or anything, lol!

[–]jelliknight 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Munchausen by Internet

Great term

I don't know how to push back on this, especially in the current social climate.

Maybe try getting in ahead of it with non controversial teachings. Like, explicitly teach him that boys and girls can both like all toys and do all things. Maybe your husband can demonstrate that by playing dolls with him or baking with the kids or something and just teach him that anyone can play with and do whatever they like. If he comes over wearing a dress, point out that you're wearing pants, and not long ago women weren't allowed to wear them but now everyone can wear whatever they like isn't that great? Have a spare outfit of comfy clothes for him if he wants to change so he can play more comfortably. Teach him the difference between boys and girls, men and women, is physical. Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina. Teach him that only boys can be dads and only girls can be mums, but dads and moms can do all the same things (except dads can't be pregnant or breastfeed).

Hopefully if you get in early enough with enough clarity he won't be easily swept along. The push back will have to come from the kid himself in the current climate. You will just have to support him in being who he really is; a perfectly normal boy who likes and does all kinds of things.

Take photos of the dresses though, and record conversations with the kid and the mother. Hopefully you'll never need them as evidence and they can be just for him when he's older (and talking to a therapist about his mother's issues).

[–]halebop[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is actually really helpful and it's nice that it's something we can put into practice right away, thank you! He has clothes of his own here and generally changes almost right away because we give him a bath when he gets here (because she doesn't help him in the tub anymore and his hair doesn't get cleaned otherwise). Luckily my husband and I both enjoy cooking and baking with the kids and other things already but I hadn't thought about just talking about these things in really clear terms with him yet because it's never come up (because he doesn't even think about gender let alone changing his gender) but I will take those opportunities that you pointed out that I hadn't noticed before. Thanks so much!

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]luckystar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly if the child's biological mom is pushing this stuff you're gonna have a huge uphill battle, probably impossible, to convince her. The best you can do is show your husband stuff. I find myself returning to this page again and again: UCSF Hospital Guidelines for Trans Youth It's a bit of a long read, but you'll notice that they repeatedly mention the lack of evidence for the treatments efficacy while they are urging for them. The UK NHS has recently updated their guidelines too, here is an article that summarizes the changes, they've gone from being super gung-ho to much more conservative about this stuff. Note: The article itself has a clear editorial bias, but the content they've drawn from the former and current NHS websites word for word does not.

I think that's an important bit: even the most pro "transing kids" institutions concede that evidence is unclear or insufficient. You can't argue that major medical institutions in the most progressive pro-trans parts of the world are biased against trans kids.They already express support as strongly as they can while still having to admit there isn't actually good evidence. You won't convince someone by showing them a source that already is primed against trans people, show them how neutral sources are also admitting the same issues.

The case of James/"Luna" Younger might be of interest to you guys if you're in the USA. Link to article with details. Basically, a male child's mom thought he was a girl and the dad disagreed and they divorced and had a long drawn out legal battle over the child's treatment. The conclusion was ultimately that a neutral third party would make medical decisions if the two parents couldn't come to an agreement, and that currently no treatment (like hormones or surgeries or what have you) was being forced or recommended. The court also found that neither parent was abusive. The dad is not going to be forced to call the boy "Luna" or use female pronouns. If your husband's ex really starts going gung ho about the trans thing, that might be the route your husband will have to go down (taking legal action).

Ultimately though, if this is a very new thing, I don't think there's too much to worry about. Maybe an unpopular opinion here but I don't care about social transition for kids, like if they want to change their name and wear dresses then go nuts. I'd have a hard time using different pronouns but to me the bottom line is that as long as no medical interventions are taken, then it's just another phase. Like if you had a teen child claiming to be bisexual when you knew deep down they were straight, you'd let them experiment and learn for themselves right? The real issue is the puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and surgeries. Those medical treatments mean PERMANENT lifelong changes. If any of those are on the table, that's the time when hard discussions up to and including legal action may be necessary.

For puberty blockers in particular, you can google "Lupron", one of the most common kinds. There are TONS of lawsuits against the maker of Lupron that come mostly from women who as children were prescribed lupron for precocious puberty. Now realize those women just delayed puberty a few years but ultimately went through their biological puberty, and imagine how much worse the possibilities might be for kids that take cross sex hormones (which do have tons of documented side effects) on top of that.

Another case that might be "fun" to dig into is Jazz Jennings, a MTF trans youth whose entire life is on a TV show on TLC. From that show we know that the puberty blockers + hormones combo meant that he never went through male puberty (so he was a teenager with a child's penis), and when he got the genital surgery, there was not enough penile tissue to form a vaginoplasty, so they had to take tissue from elsewhere in the body (somewhere in the stomach I believe?) and he had major complications and his new "vagina" somehow collapsed. He also has never felt sexual attraction or an orgasm, is permanently sterile, and has major depression. And Jazz is the one they hold up as the model case of a "successful and thriving trans kid". There are many clips from the show on YouTube where you can learn more.

[–]halebop[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't worry about the social transition per se, it's the brainwashing vibe I'm getting from the whole thing. I'm not worried if it is his choice, I just don't think it actually is his choice, I think she is manipulating him into it. He's very malleable as people go, not very strong willed, and if this is getting him attention from his pretty disinterested mother I think he will develop positive associations with it without it ever having been his choice. I do agree though that the medical intervention is the biggest concern we have though and luckily her "tendencies" were a concern from the time of their divorce when he was one year old and written into the divorce is all medical decisions must be agreed upon by both parents. I think my husband is afraid that medical transition will become something that no parent has to agree to and children can do themselves because in that case she can just take him and say that it was his decision even if it isn't. Thank you for all the links, I will definitely look everything over!