All male bonding is rooted in the destruction of women

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[–]not_mean_enough 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

So when two male musicians are jamming together and having a blast, it somehow destroys women? Nah, I'm not buying it.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Me neither, but this brings up some thoughts I struggle with. I love classic rock and prog, but there's very little female representation that I enjoy in those genres. In general I tend to not like music produced by women anyway. I think a couple of things are at play - music being highly marketed means only certain kinds of women's music gets produced (and I happen to not like much of what producers think women's music should look and sound like) and in general men have more time to noodle around in the garage with the guys or whatever so they get more opportunity to practice and make a career happen. But no, I don't think some guys jamming have any intention of destroying women!

[–]not_mean_enough 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The times when the music industry had any control on what kind of music gets produced are gone – people can make their own music on their home computer and upload it on various platforms. Why would you care what gets marketed if you can find stuff on your own? Out of all the music I listen to, only a small fraction is something I've ever seen marketed in any other way than being listed on a small underground event. There's plenty of music out there that never gets played on the telly or the radio or appears on billboards and posters, and it's within the reach of anyone who has access to the internet. I think the argument about someone deciding what kind of women's music is being produced is like twenty years out of date.

Bloody hell, I recently made a song using a PC, a microphone, and some free software, and I uploaded it to YouTube for some silly memey challenge.

BTW, just a few days ago I discovered a really cool prog rock/jazz fusion project that uses strings and a full big band brass section: NYChillharmonic. Sang, composed, arranged and organised by a woman. Check it out if it sounds like your jam.

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't have the time to go hunting for music, and I feel like even before the internet it's been that way for me. My friends could introduce me to some cool and not so cool things because they were willing to spend hours combing through stuff at Tower. But I am exposed to, whether I like it or not, tons of terrible mainstream/lamestream music just by existing in public spaces. What gets played the most is still what's marketed. My average student is mostly interested in what's marketed and popular as well.

I will be checking out your rec though, thanks!

[–]msteacherlady 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ha ha okay, so I put Bjork on Pandora often enough, and this fits right in with some of the artists that get mixed in on that playlist. But the big band backdrop is new to me and I'm really digging it. I'm going to keep listening, thanks!

[–]Skipdip 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I mean clearly this is not black and white. I mean a big part of male socialization does include bullying and elements (sometimes quite strongly) of misogyny. But she must be talking about gender indoctrination here, because obviously you cannot boil down the bonding of sexes like that. It’s like saying all female bonding is based on wanting a man.

[–]jet199 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Being mean and joking about the outgroup is a tactic for bonding in pretty much any group.

You say female bonding would be based on wanting men, not in my experience. Most of the time I'm in all female groups men are being slammed, even more so among non-political women. I've literally never sat in a group of women taking about men and it been a purely positive conversation (of course the majority of the time women aren't talking about men, which they'd probably find more offensive). I mean maybe that's a specific cultural trait though.

[–]not_mean_enough 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Being mean and joking about the outgroup is definitely not a universal tactic, and in many groups it is considered immature and petty. I've witnessed plenty of bonding over common passions, common experiences, or common hardships.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

No.

[–]MarkTwainiac 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just coz Andrea Dworkin said something - or supposedly said something (no citation for the source of this quote is given) - doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Or insightful.

[–]vitunrotta 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh lord. Not this fringethink of feminism, just please no. It's the stigma of exactly these types of (IMHO quite idiotic) simplifications that are still today used to invalidate feminists: they're all just man-hating crazies and have nothing constructive to offer.

That is not true and I personally wholly reject the message. I have brothers, male friends, nephews... And a boyfriend of 7 years. I am not OK with this type of commentary. Someone already stated she suffered abuse from her husband so she probably has a reason to come to these types of "conclusions." Yet - to me it sounds like she should go to therapy, deal with the terrible things she endured, and hopefully come out on the other side without the need to make hateful commentary about the entire male sex. And I say this as a woman who has also gone through a lot in the hands of men - both verbal and physical abuse. I still don't see them as some Global DudeBro Movement that only exists because they bathe in the blood of women every other Saturday.

May I ask: what would you think if the words were reversed, and this was a MAN speaking of WOMEN?

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ever read The Second Sex? A good point the author makes in that among many is that where there is one, there is also the other. Locals and foreigners, family and strangers, hot and cold, gay and straight, men and women. We naturally form groups socially and define others outside of those groups in relation to ourselves. So it makes sense that some of us sometimes bond with our "in" groups by antagonising the Others, since the distinction between the in group and the others is what creates the in group. But by no means does it mean that that's the ONLY thing those groups bond over or that its unique to men. This quote is ridiculous lol

[–]vitunrotta 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What?

[–]jkfinn 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They say you can live or die off quotes. This is one I can live off and others here say they're dying off. Think of a TiM who has made it a female world at so many levels, so convincingly (this is what he fights so hard for), and yet.... yes, and yet, he is still very much a male, and experiencing more male bonding for that. He's kind of a hero in the war on women because his groundwork in EROS assures that. He's a new sexual system not unlike pornography, prostitution, or s-m sex... bonding down the road with the guys.

[–]yishengqingwa666 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, pretty much. The male screeching in the comments only confirms it.

[–]hfxB0oyA 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the words of some famous person; opinions are like assholes - everyone's got one.