Losing respect for people

submitted by Barber_Acrobatic from self.GenderCritical

Does anyone else find that whenever they stumble across some random celebrities TWAW handmaideny support posts to the most oppressed of all communities that they just sort of drop in your estimation. I stumbled across an actresses post about how she can like Harry Potter and still condemn JK Rowling and I was just sat there reading it like 'oh fuck off'. It also really gets up my nose whenever people try to remove JK from Harry Potter as I swear men never seem to fall under these sort of erasure attempts. Like people will condemn Woody Allen but they don't pretend he didn't make his films.

I really hope the tide starts shifting sooner rather than later, not just because of the transing of children but because if I have to read one more po faced donation to Mermaids I'm setting fire to my phone

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[–]jet199 29 insightful - 3 fun29 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's clear to anyone now that by repeating TWAW you are not only supporting trans people or protecting yourself but also attacking other people and enabling child abuse. These people are weighing up their options and choosing an immoral option, they deserve to be judged on that basis. They almost make me appreciate those cowards who go "I'm not getting involved, it's too complex/scary" because at least those people are doing something to avoid personally hurting others even if they aren't helping.

[–]jkfinn 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It doesn’t take much to disappear women, even the most famous ones, because women-as-women are already disappeared. Think of all the once-known women who were buried in unmarked graves, or who died in a welfare hotel. But Woody Allen will always persist as a “pantheon film-maker,” because it takes one hell of a lot more to disappear a male, esp. when he’s one of the renowned ones.

[–]endless_assfluff 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That unmarked graves comment reminded me of the Magdalene Laundries. Uggghhh. I can't wrap my head around the scale of reproductive abuse---still ongoing!---and how much we owe to these women whose achievements will never be acknowledged. But it's not "woke" to talk about the Magdalene Laundries because it reflects poorly on a specific religion. Oh no. The real woke problem is an author tactfully and respectfully standing up for women.

And yeah, the sexism is so obvious. They spend more energy shouting down women for saying words they don't like than on condemning men for, y'know, assaulting or killing people.

[–]BEB 18 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

I have, sadly, been exposed to quite a few famous actors/actresses. They are almost all 100% nuts, so please DO NOT pin your hopes on them taking a sane stance on any issue.

I mean, sometimes an actor will be right on an issue, but it's not because they actually thought it through. They are mostly incapable of thinking of anything but themselves.

I hope that the world ceasing to place actors and celebrities on pedestals will be one of the silver linings of this Era of Disillusionment.

[–]MezozoicGay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sadly that actors like Keanu Reeves are very rare. It is rare to see good people among rich in any case, thought.

[–]BEB 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A friend of mine was in a somewhat isolated restaurant/bar when Keanu Reeves walked in. He sat down next to my friend (a woman in her 70s - so no hot, young, trendy, person) and hung out for a few hours. They had a great time. My friend barely knew who Keanu was, but ended up adoring him as a person.

But yeah, he is the exception. Most celebrities and actors are shallow narcissists who would sell their mother for a role.

[–]Kai_Decadence 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a really nice story, nice to hear he was pleasant :)

[–]Barber_Acrobatic[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh absolutely, I think people have a tendency to link levels of fame with the levels of knowledge they supposedly bring to the table which is more than a little depressing

[–]TruBi 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Definitely. I lose a lot of respect for these virtual signaling addicts. It feels good to go with the crowd and just parrot back whatever they are told what the “right” thing to think is. It takes courage to speak out against the status quo and to think for yourself. It’s an age of ignorance where asking questions is deemed hate. Where no one can even have a debate anymore. The TRAs and modern LGBT+ community just wants everyone to submit to their sexist homophobic ideology with no questions asked.

Not only do I frown at celebs and internet personalities when they submit to the tra agenda. I also find it hard to even be friends with people who bought into all this nonsense. It’s sad.

[–]Immortallogic 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eh, take it as, at least you can see their true colors. If it's someone you personally know, talk to them about all the ways that these TiMs are damaging women spaces/sporty, etc, the insanely high amount of AGP involved, and also the porn overlap/fetishization. If they can't see it, drop em. If it's someone you really care about, agree to disagree if you can, but let them know your reasons for not supporting it. Hopefully they will eventually peak.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Losing respect for people

Does anyone else find that whenever they stumble across some random celebrities TWAW handmaideny support posts to the most oppressed of all communities that they just sort of drop in your estimation.

I agree with you, OP, but I think the larger question we all need to ask is: why do we as a society automatically give "respect" to "random celebrities" and hold them high our estimation?

I've met quite a few celebrities in my lifetime, and honestly most of them were "nothing to write home about" as the old saying put it.

Most people in the acting business are good at memorizing dialogue written by others & playacting to give the impression of authentic human emotions & intelligence. They are mimes who use words, not great minds or moral authorities. They are experts at creating a certain public image of themselves & at "virtue signalling."

Most pop stars are not deep intellectuals with humanitarian impulses, they are craven conformist capitalists out for the cash & fame. Those pop stars who do seem to display humanitarian impulses often end up doing much more damage and harm than good to the people they've decided they want to help through their naive "do gooderism" (as the story of Live Aid shows).

There's an old saying: "never meet your heroes/idols." Coz they are bound to be a disappointment. The modern version should be: never follow your heroes/idols on social media or in the press.

[–]vitunrotta 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes to all. It's truly mind-boggling how much we revere the opinions of celebrities - be they singers, actors, YouTubers etc. Many of them are in the business of entertainment and may excel in their own specific field, but that in no way or form makes them an expert in any other field. Especially when speaking of complex societal issues.

Take Daniel Radcliffe and his instant TWAWing: I highly doubt he has the slightest clue of what is even going on, and as this is not a phenomenon that is (not yet at least) affecting him in the least, I'm inclined to believe he doesn't even care. But the activist groups are relentless and aggressive and repeat phrases like "silence is violence!" and demand an answer from celebrities regarding whatever subject is the wokest right now. Currently it's the trans ideology. And so the PR experts of said celebrities quickly scramble together some "progressive" sounding letter of cancellation, send it to publications, and voilá! Catastrophe has been avoided and the celebrity in question can go on living their life just like before. They may have even garnered some woke points by their ("their") woke opinions. Double win!

I think I have made the mistake of idolizing someone before, only to be massively disappointed that they were just... normal people, or in some cases not even that: they were just famous and had nothing of essence to say about anything real, or the ability to bring any useful ideas to the table. Some of them have sounded outright dumb and wholly ignorant (and hey, I myself don't even have a high school degree, so that's a lot to say). ;)

Yet we are supposed to listen to them because...? Who knows. I've finally come to the conclusion that the less I hear about people I used to look up to, the better. It's likely I will find a myriad of opinions and past/current activities that would put me off instantly. They are, simply, just people and chances are - if you are in the business of entertainment - the only thing you REALLY care about is yourself and your own bloated ego. The show must go on after all.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, quite a few celebrities have used their status as celebrated, "widely beloved" persons seen to be "beyond reproach" to get away with committing all sorts of abuses against others - from the most heinous sex crimes to being horrible to their kids, partners, other family members, employees and friends.

Jimmy Saville, Gary Glitter, Bill Cosby and R Kelly are examples of the many men from the entertainment world over time who've used their celebrity to commit sex crimes against women and minors. Harvey Weinstein is just the latest of a long line of famous film producers who've used their status as celebrated VIPs and powerhouses in the movie industry to sexually assault tons of women and children. Mother Teresa used the revered and "saintly" status the world press gave her to excuse her being incredibly cruel & inhumane to the impoverished, extremely ill people in India who had the misfortune to be subjected to her "care." Joan Crawford used her movie star status to get away with abusing the children she adopted, and to getting other adults to go along with it or look the other way. And apparently Ellen Degeneres has used her status as a celebrated success in the TV/entertainment world, as well as a lesbian pioneer and "leading light of the LGBTQ," to set special rules that allow her to treat people in her employ poorly... And on and on it goes.

[–]vitunrotta 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

used to look up to

Ah, wanted to clarify... famous people, or better yet - celebrities, that I used to look up to. I have a lot of people I truly do look up to and think they are fantastic people with lots of knowledge and insight. :) None of them fit the "celebrity" category though, even though they may be somewhat famous in certain circles.

[–]Barber_Acrobatic[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Completely agree. I think it's just depressing that whether deserved or not they do have a great deal of cultural sway and so they'll merrily lead the rest of us off the cliff for the sake of 'being nice' about issues they'll never actually be confronted with

[–]threefingersam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I don't think celebrities are known for integrity. They have skills/talent and charisma, sure, but whether they have solid morals and ethics is a different question altogether. Internet famous youtubers are like that too. This is why I try not to get too emotionally attached to content creators.

[–]vitunrotta 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I was lurking on ButtFeet the other day (know your enemies, they say... and also, know your EMOTIONAL age by picking up a bunch of cookies)!

Anyway, they love Harry Potter, both books and movies, but were the first ones to start calling out and cancelling JKR. It's laughably stupid. Some silly little tweens also apparently burned their HP books because of the terrible transphobia of Rowling. Honey, you already spent your money on said books and JKR received that money. You burning her books means fuck-all to anyone. Ugh, YOUTH.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

To make it worse, some of them make HP themed videos (profits given to TRAs) or HP themed merchandise putting down JKR. It literally costs these slimeballs nothing to leech and virtue-signal off of someone else's work. If you're going to boycott, have some backbone and gtfo of the fandom. That means those HP communities that are now denouncing JKR. I lost all respect when a certain former buzzfeed quartet said TWAW don't listen to those hateful non-feminists.

Four men, one of them into drag, chanting TWAW. They must know so much better. /s

[–]vitunrotta 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

some of them make HP themed videos (profits given to TRAs)

The nerve, seriously. Gladly JKR has likely a LOT more money to give out to organizations and/or individuals who are against the whole TRA madness. And yeah, if you're so against something, then stand by it, for god's sake. Leech is the correct term for these types.

(Do you mean by the Buzzfeed quartet the Try Guys? I used to love their videos. Taken, this was a few years ago already... Well, I will do my boycotting the right way: never watching any of their content again, ha.)

Edit: wording

[–]lairacunda 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I would actually encourage them to buy more books to burn. New ones of course.

[–]fireweed 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I just think most people don't really think this issue through very well. They aren't homophobic and they're all for equality, so why shouldn't they be pro-trans too? It's only when you delve deeper that you start to see the misogyny. The good news is that a lot of people are starting to delve deeper. There are also more obvious TIMs out and about in public and people can see it for what it is: womanface. The tide will certainly turn five years from now when the first wave of transed children come of age and start with their interviews, books, and lawsuits.

[–]BEB 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That the general public will be exposed to transgender activists and see how unstable they are is exactly what the gender lobby is scared of.

This was revealed about a year ago when the gender lobby's hiring of a prominent international law firm, Dentons, to formulate a game plan based on passing gender ideology laws under the radar was exposed. They know that TIM activists and the laws they're trying to push through won't stand up to public scrutiny, so they get them passed by stealth.

Information on that has been posted on this sub. I can repost if you're interested.

[–]fireweed 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Laws can be repealed and overturned. I know that TIMs have been good at flying under the radar, but that won't last much longer. Those who were transed as children aren't go to give a fuck about the TRA agenda when they start discussing the horrors of what they went through. It's going to open everyone's eyes, and there is going to be a major backlash.

[–]BEB 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Laws can, but as WoLF in sounding the alarm keeps pointing out, repealing laws takes a lot of time, and to some extent, money.

In the US, the trans activist lobby has managed to pass laws at every level, from the city to the federal, and also won major court decisions at the Supreme Court and Circuit Courts. Re-fighting those laws and decisions will take feminists and their conservative allies years if not decades. And that's AFTER the public wakes up, which it hasn't yet.

And, as I keep saying, once some conservative politicians realize that trans activism is the best way to keep feminism in check they will join the gender lobby.

There's already a Republican version of the Equality Act in the US House of Representatives. It was authored/sponsored by three Utah representatives, all of whom are tied to the Mormon church.

So yeah, the public will wake up, but too late to save us and it's going to take women years to get back to where we were in 2000 even.

[–]msteacherlady 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Hannah Gadsby broke my heart.

[–]anonymale 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh god dammit! “...someone who is scared for no reason.” Come on!

[–]buttbuttinator 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm particularly upset with her for bringing up autism in that letter she wrote. Making a connection between trans and autism was really foul. Because again, they're two groups of people who can speak for themselves, and she's not allowing them to.

JK Rowling didn't make the connection, every single study on the subject made the connection.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've seen SO much gatekeeping regarding JK Rowling and talking about trans issues. First it was "she's not allowed to speak for the trans community!", and then "doesn't she know the black lives matter protests are happening? Why is she speaking about THAT at a time like THIS?", and now "autistic people can speak for themselves!"

Is nobody allowed to talk about anything??? I guess only if they're on the pre-approved topics. But (like Douglas Murray said) trans issues and policies affect EVERYBODY.

(sorry for the caps, I'm worked up and haven't had coffee yet)

[–]anonymale 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"autistic people can speak for themselves!"

I am once again saying, as an autistic person, that gender is bullshit.

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, I guess I'm removing Nanette from my Netflix list.

It probably won't be long before she declares herself a non-woman, too.

[–]lairacunda 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not Hannah! Well she's smart so. maybe she'll snap out of it.

[–]msteacherlady 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would hope so, but she's also a butch lesbian with autism. If she were also younger we'd have enby bingo for transition.

I remember watching Nannette, laughing and crying so hard with my mother, who studied art as well. It was such a great thing to share with her, finally someone so smart in her field to call out all the bullshit. I am so disappointed! I hope you are right!

[–]RedditVihaaLesboja 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, especially after how she talked about the pressure to transition as a butch lesbian in Nanette...

[–]BrokenEarth 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

H.P. Lovecraft has gone through the same stuff, but roughly a 100 years after his death.

I think the issue with JK Rowling was that she actively played to this twitter crowd by retroactively making her novels more progressive, so these angry e-activists were drawn to her like wasps to sugar water. So when she drew a line where she didn't stand with them, she was at the center of a wasp storm.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not gonna lie... when I first read the Deathly Hallows, I assumed there was homoerotic tension between Dumbledore and Grindelwald. Not many 17 or 18 year old boys spend a whole summer writing to each other, re-reading each others' letters late at night, glorifying their male friend, and waiting anxiously for the owl to deliver their next letter. I never saw an issue with her admitting that Dumbledore was gay because I figured the subtext was already there.

I wish it was more overt in the movies (esp. Fantastic Beasts) but whatever. I know Hollywood is scared to do that in "kids" movies (or movies that will make a lot of money in China). I know someone who worked on those movies and he said Rowling's scripts were like books in themselves, and the studio ended up cutting more than half of the story out.

edit: Also, for anyone unaware, the only reason she admitted explicitly that "Dumbledore is gay" is because the screenwriter wanted to write a scene in one of the movies where Dumbledore talks about a long-lost love - a young witch from his youth. When reviewing the script, Rowling wrote a huge X on the page and wrote "Dumbledore is gay" (and this is what got sent to the media). I wonder if the twitter crowd would have been as upset about the retconning if Dumbledore's straight relationship was kept in the movie. (My guess is probably not).

[–]Barber_Acrobatic[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I do always think as well how the hell would Harry know anyway? Considering the books are from his perspective and Dumbledore seemed to be a very private person. Clearly she should have had a scene where Dumbledore sits down and explains how much he loves cock to Harry, probably with the added part of 'only male cock, I don't fuck with lady dick... you can tell you know...somehow.'

[–]DivaExMachina 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yep. I especially lose respect for people who blithely condemn JK without even bothering to acquaint themselves with the basic facts of the situation. A couple of YouTubers I follow have come out with videos or statements condemning her, calling her a 'Piece of shit' or whatever but not actually addressing any of her points and it is clear they are just jumping on the bandwagon for social points without knowing the first thing about it. Just unsubscribed and don't even bother now.

[–]Barber_Acrobatic[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I will say there's almost a direct correlation to the people who would happily set her on fire and give her lifes work to Daniel Radcliffe and the same sort who put up twee statements about 'kindness' and that everyone just needs to be nice.

[–]questioningtw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I got called the horrible person the other day for thinking her essay was fine, and suddenly deciding you don't like her books is beyond stupid. I thought feminists were supposed to think it was great for women to succeed and be considered good writers? Women are expected to read books by misogynists and POC are expected to read works by racists. Why do trans people get to bully people into not reading certain books.

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm indifferent to celebrities, but obviously they have a lot of social influence. I don't ever want to get "attached" to a celebrity or their views because they might decide to go crazy or else they'll be outed as a hideous person.

But it really sucks to feel like there are no masculine women in the public eye who aren't on the gender train. I just found out elsewhere in the thread that Hannah Gadsby is another GNC woman who has jumped on the bandwagon. I also saw a cool-looking show on Netflix called Feel Good. I watched the trailer and the lead is an actual GNC woman, a rare sight. So of course I googled the actress and lo and behold the first thing I saw was her Twitter, where she announces her pronouns as "she/they," one step away from abandoning womanhood, and her first tweet was attacking J.K. Rowling.

[–]Barber_Acrobatic[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

surely she/they as pronouns are just being deliberately difficult. Does it mean either will do, because that doesn't actually make them special given I think everyone will use they now and again without much though.

[–]GCaccountforSaidit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I had the opposite today, where someone was posting about national politics and just slags off on someone with passive aggressive "calls herself [insert handle] on social media" with no connection at all to the subject at hand. Since I don't know the person being referred to, I check to see if it is a handle on Twitter.

It is.

And it is clearly and obviously GC from the moment you land on the page, with a name referencing one of JK Rowling's famous tweets. So here, we have someone slagging off another woman, apparently only for the sake of a political difference, and me finding out because of her compulsion to attack everyone different. So I suppose yes, I did lose respect for the original poster, but more respect for another brave woman on Twitter pushing back against queer theory whom I never would have heard about without bizarro attack.