all 33 comments

[–]BEB 27 insightful - 16 fun27 insightful - 15 fun28 insightful - 16 fun -  (6 children)

Say, "I find it somewhat offensive that you can't tell that I'm a cis-male."

And then walk off.

[–]vitunrotta 18 insightful - 12 fun18 insightful - 11 fun19 insightful - 12 fun -  (5 children)

Ahah. Where I live the gendercraze hasn’t gone to those levels yet but... if they will, I’m prepared to say “I identify as a MAN so whatever I say from this moment on will be considered assertive and strong, not aggressive.”

Then they’ll have to deal with a man instead of a ~hysterically weird woman who is not afraid to speak her (oops! his) mind~.

No worries, I know it would/will backfire but damn do I want to try these maddening tactics... 👹

[–]BEB 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You sound like a lot of fun.

My question to everyone: What if it does backfire? I think (and I know it's hard) that we just have to stop giving a shit what people think of us. We need to stand up for ourselves every single time we can when we are confronted with this bullshit.

If it's a work situation and you'll get fired, then that's different. But in places where all you'll get are dirty looks, get them.

If we allow ourselves to be erased, it's now obvious that we will be, so let's now allow it.

[–]vitunrotta 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I am fun AND nuts, all at once. It’s a great deal! 100% of people recommend! (Small print: to stay away).

I do agree with you though. I fully understand that a lot of people are in figurative handcuffs because while they’d WANT to talk about things, they may risk their jobs, reputation, whatnot. But when those things are not necessarily at stake... don’t apologize. Fight. (Not with fists - words!)

I think it was Terry Pratchett (RIP) who said something along the lines “if you’re not angry, then you haven’t been paying enough attention.”

[–]BEB 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the US, we also risk our health insurance. And we don't have the social safety net to fall back on that many other countries have.

Yesterday, I was reading about the latest attack on US feminists by a British feminist (for being "allied" with the Christian Right) - I think one of the factors that a few British GC feminists (thankfully just a few) don't get about the restrictions on GC feminists in the US is that it's not just our jobs, it's health insurance for ourselves and sometimes our dependents. And we'll be out on the street.

Also, we don't have a parliamentary system of government in the US, just the two parties, and the Democrats and the media that's not Far Right, as well as academia, corporations, etc., have bought into gender ideology hook, line and sinker.

So we have no one to turn to for allies except for other women, some conservative (and they often make great allies because they are fierce) and sometimes organizations like Alliance Defending Freedom. ADF was the only organization that would take the Title IX boys in girls' sports case - everyone else - all those liberal organizations - abandoned women.

The US is also a huge country. Most of us can't just pop on a train and meet up with other GC feminists in an hour like many of the UK feminists can, so almost all of us are protesting by ourselves. And many parts of the US are radically different from others - we have 50 states and many, many different cultures - so it makes political coherence even more difficult.

WoLF has explained their alliances with right wing groups very well, and proven that it hasn't turned WoLF into some kind of homophobic, anti-abortion organization - it's just that a few GC feminists in the UK just don't seem to want to understand the incredible obstacles US feminists face.

Anyway, that's my mini-rant because I really feel attacks on US feminists by GC people outside this country have no idea of the mountain we are climbing, mostly alone.

We women need to ally across politics and across countries, and stop judging each other, because we are fighting for our lives and our girls' lives.

[–]moody_ape 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

if it backfires, just throw a tantrum about how offensive their behavior is and how hurt you are, then cry a little (or cry histerically, it's up to you), talk about how their words trigger your dysphoria and show how distressed you are by shaking uncontrollably. they'll end up believing you because trans bs is indeed that nonsensical OR they'll at least be confused.

[–]MisandryFTW 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I identify as the CEO.

[–]fuckingsealions 25 insightful - 7 fun25 insightful - 6 fun26 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

I say "Oh, no thanks, I don't do pronouns." I say it like someone has already offered me food and I've already eaten.

I'm not nanowrimo-ing, but I am regular wrimo-ing. My writing has slowed down too much for nanowrimo because I read a book that broke my brain a little. 😄

[–]vitunrotta 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Personally, I would say it is incredibly offensive to make me a CIS-something when I am, in fact, the real thing.

The minuscule amount of people who are not a-OK with their genders are the ones who need the prefix. Not us.

[–]vitunrotta 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To clarify: call yourself a female/woman. Unfortunately you may receive some backlash for this but don’t shy away.

No battle was ever won easily. Keep your head and mind and be assertive. Is it fair? No. Do it anyway. For your own good, and the good of others as well.

[–]DWD 15 insightful - 9 fun15 insightful - 8 fun16 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

I like the idea of using she/him just to make it impossible for anyone to have a conversation.

[–]Hankypants 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I seem to recall, a while ago there was a test done by a male and a female regarding how the information they gave (in IT) was perceived by customers based upon if the customer thought they were male or female. Not surprisingly the customers wanted extra information or a second opinion if they believed the recommendations they received came from a woman. It's quite likely that your professional opinion will be diminished in value you are forced to state "your pronouns" to strangers or customers. As sad as this is, it may be sex discrimination to make you declare your sex to strangers on the basis of their possible inherent misogyny.

[–]sallytomato 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have mostly ignored it and no one has said anything. If I were pressed to answer I'd say "I don't believe in pronouns. I think they are oppressive."

[–]MisandryFTW 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My work wanted to start doing this and I said, "I know you mean well, but bringing attention to pronouns and putting people on the spot can actually be very triggering for people with gender issues and does more harm than good." They decided not to do pronouns. I feel like this is a win because I work with autistic teenagers. When people ask my pronouns I say, "Surprise me!"

[–]FearfulFriend 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very good!

[–]itsnotaboutewe 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Them: You don't have your pronouns on screen.

You: That's correct.

Them: We will wait while you correct that.

You: I suggest we don't wait or we will get no work done today. (Eyebrows must be raised and the head tilted to one side while saying this.)

[–]YoutiaoLover 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"I/me. Huh? What do you mean third person pronoun? I don't refer myself with third person pronoun." While looking genuinely confused. Or "I don't talk about pronouns. It triggers my dysphoria."

JK. Jokes aside, in your situation, maybe it's better to zip your lips on this matter and say "she/her" when they press you for pronouns. Just think of it as "losing the battle to win the war"; you can subtly express your GC thoughts to them when you're there even though you feel like you're betraying reality.

I used to do nanowrimo back in college, but now I only participate in camp nano because 50k words isn't a feasible goal now that I'm a corporate slave 😂

[–]Liz-B-Anne 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yikes. Never happened to me here in the Bible Belt but I assume I'd just say "uhh, FEMALE pronouns for me" followed by a blank stare.

[–]thatradicallesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For the google forms that require a typed answer for "preferred pronouns", I just type a single space to populate the field. Could easily be interpreted as an "accident."

[–]PenseePansy 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I'd say, "My pronouns are: you/you." (Like, yanno, everyone's are in English, when they're being addressed directly.)

If the questioner replies with something along the lines of, "No, I mean pronouns like she/her, he/him, they/them," parry it this way: "Oh, you mean third-person pronouns? Well, since by definition I won't be there to HEAR them, I don't really care! Use whatever ones you want!" (Maybe throw in some lighthearted laughter to show just how silly all this fussing-over-pronouns nonsense is.)

If they're persistent enough to go for, "Well, what if I'm referring to you to someone else in front of you?", respond thusly: "Using third-person pronouns for someone who's present is kind of rude, don't you think? Like you're ignoring them? It's more polite to refer to them by name."

Honestly, just plain English grammar is your friend here; use it!

[–]Camberian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nanowrimo has practically been taken over by TRAs. I didn't continue last November on the website because of this, and have ceased participating in any event since.

My writer friends and I maintain our own website privately, where we as a staunch feminist group continue with our old writing month and camp habits on our own.

[–]Constantine 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Seems like you're into the writing community. From what I can tell following authors, if you want to be published, you have to just grin and bear it. It's a fact of life. Some of us just aren't in professional circles where we can risk being outwardly gender critical. This is true for myself and my work. It's just a fact of life, unfortunately. I need to eat, and hopefully a day will come when I'm financially and/or professionally stable enough to speak out. It sucks that you have to be at the level of a JK Rowling to speak out in some situations.

As for specific advice, I just stay silent on these issues as long as I can, and vaguely nod along when I can't avoid it. This has worked most of the time. Every once in a while I'm backed into a corner about giving my pronouns and I just give the (obviously) right ones. I actually don't mind giving pronouns much because it makes it easier to identity the crazies out there. I've run into a lot of she/theys this way eyeroll

On the flip side, not being outwardly gender critical has allowed me to build a rapport with some younger/more impressionable people, and I've been able to subtly say some things without sending off "TERF alerts" (as they call them) and open up some of their minds this way. There's a benefit to keeping on the down low in some ways. You're not written off as a bigot right away and might actually have a chance of getting through to some people.

[–]BEB 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is so sad that GC thoughts have to be hidden, but I honestly think that the tide (in the US) is turning, just probably not yet among the university-educated, virtue-signalling, navel-gazers with the "Hate Has No Home Here" signs in their front yards along with the rainbow flags that their kids draw on the sidewalks.

I'm certainly not on board with hate - pretty much left-leaning myself - and fought for gay rights for decades, but I get so incredibly irritated by these sanctimonious signs so can only imagine what someone more towards the right of the political spectrum must feel.

[–]skinsuit_haver 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I'm new here 1st post so sorry if I say anything dumb. But honestly, if I left that part of the form blank and somebody gave me shit for it, I'd probably say something along the lines of, "I don't like being forced to confirm/identify my pronouns because I feel having to do so implies I don't pass as my preferred (read: actual) gender, which is a very triggering experience for me and causes me to experience gender dysphoria.

It's not a lie. It's using their own words against them. And since anyone who brings that kind of thing up is clearly somebody looking for a fight, they'd come out looking pretty bad if they pushed it any further. For all they know there's a feminine penis hidden somewhere on your person. Who are they to butt into your business?

[–]not_mean_enough 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Oh, I don't mind pronouns, you can call me whatever feels right to you."

But seriously, where the hell does this shit happen IRL? I've never witnessed it.

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This hasn't happened to me yet. I'm extremely GNC, so I'm surprised it hasn't, but I live in a very un-woke area.

If (or should I say when) it does happen, I'm just going to say I'm female. If they press me on it, I'll say that I'm uncomfortable talking about gender in public.

[–]jelliknight 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've never been asked, but your play is a good one. Just ignore the question.

If it's pointed out "Oh hey you didn't give your pronouns". "I know."

"Oh so what are your pronouns?" "I'm not doing that."

Being slightly more stubborn than the other person is an amazingly versatile life skill. You're not doing anything wrong. You have nothing to be afraid of. And i imagine there'll be a lot of other people kicking themselves for not thinking of it first.

[–]RoundFork 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You have a lot of choices:

1) sympathy “Gender non-performing”, so it gives you anxiety to declare that information.

2) redirect the virtue signal “address me however you want (cuz reality won’t change even if someone calls you ‘sir’, you’re not so weak that you’ll buckle after getting called a slur, and outright insult would give you permission to insult them back), very pro speech, me.”

3) be a nuisance: make a 10-page guideline on your personality but replace your moods with gender, and call yourself genderfluid. Have the gender enforcer explain every time whatever the changing breeze, time of day, weather forecast does to make you change pronouns.

[–]Spicylikegumbo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would go in a rage.

[–]FearfulFriend 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think just not giving them is the best option most of the time, like you did.

[–]Marsupial 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"What do I look like?"

[–]BuboTitan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have never been asked for my pronouns. It feels like there's some other world out there I haven't seen yet.

[–]anonymale 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pronouns in Dublin:

  • yi
  • you
  • yiz
  • youiz
  • youz
  • yer wan
  • yer man
  • dem lot

Source. Since it seems I need to spell such things out for some people here: this is a comedy sketch made by Irish people, making fun of themselves/other Irish people.