Why do you think your friends and aquaintences got swept up in the gender craze and you didn't?

submitted by fuckupaddams from self.GenderCritical

This is what I'm trying to figure out for myself. I am a young person living in one of the most liberal cities on the planet. When I say I'm the only one of my peers that has gender critical views..... Believe me.

But I cannot for the life of me figure out why. literally every week another friend is coming out as some kind of trans. Why can all of my friends and aquaintences sit around with a straight face talking about gender bullshit and I can't? Why do they see the "empowerment" within it and all I see is offensive regression? Why am I the only one who forms any critical opinions? How did this happen? What do you think the difference between you and all the people in your life who buy into this nonsense are? Why did they, and you didn't?

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[–]CastleHoward 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I was raised in a hippie commune. I can spot a dangerous situation for children from 500 miles a way. As soon as I hear shaming language my ears perk up (uptight/educate yourself) or dismissal of reasonable requests for safety (we are a peaceful community/we just want to pee) but the main one is the protection of the group above all else. They hate it when one of their own talks about the bad parts. Detransitioning means exile.

[–]fuckupaddams[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I was raised in a hippie commune. I can spot a dangerous situation for children from 500 miles a way.

That's interesting, was the commune a dangerous situation for you?

[–]CastleHoward 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, a hippie commune is a dangerous situation for everyone. Even the predators got taken down by vigilantes sometimes.

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I totally didn't know which way you were going with that at first... I was raised by hippies, not exactly in a commune but at least in the warm months in very "outside of society, back to the land" style living, grow your veggies, cook over a fire, swim naked in the lake, and I think of it as giving me a strong ability to think for myself. I had friends who lived that way year round, but we went back to the city for the school year once we were old enough. But some of those childhood friends now raise their kids on group-owned land in the same way. Why is that dangerous - not enough interaction with different types of people? You get that living in a liberal bubble too, really... I never met a Christian or a Republican in the city I lived in, either. It just seems like in the US there are so many places where you are segregated less from a diversity of skin color etc, but from a diversity of politics or viewpoints.

[–]blahblahgcer 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So I did fall into the trans mess when all my friends did (I was nonbinary for a year). None of my other friends have detransitioned. Everyone is a full blown TRA.

I think for me it's because I had a lot of chance to hear differing views. I was raised by the internet and my very conservative church. So I was very used to hearing differing views. There was a point I was both an active tumblr user and an active /r/tumblrinaction user lol. My private high school also had a lot of logic and philosophy courses.

I still fell into the bandwagon, but even then, I was way more critical than others. I tried to dismiss my opinions bc they were considered transphobic, but eventually I couldn't anymore.

I think there's a problem with society where we can no longer have debates or discussions about anything at all. Anything is immediately touted as somethingphobic. And I think I managed to escape that with my upbringing. For example, Gay rights? I heard why it's bad from my family/church and heard why it's good from the internet and others, and decided for myself that I support gay rights. This is true for a lot of subjects. I try to understand the other side and why they believe in what they do. Unfortunately, trying to do that makes you a phobe or whatever.

Nowadays people are told "if you're not this, then youre a bad person, and if anyone is this, you should hate them and never listen to them". It's exhausting.

[–]lefterfield 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So much this. I find it disturbing that many of the people I talk to on social media will say things like 'Trump/Conservatives wants them dead'. I am definitely not a conservative or fan of Trump, but having bad ideas and implementing bad policies is not the same as wanting people to die. But if that's the mentality you take when listening to opposing arguments(if you even listen) then you have NO IDEA why the policies are bad or why you oppose them. Nor do you really know why you support your own.

I think this is what it ultimately comes down to. If someone is willing to listen and debate rationally, they won't fall for the gender cult.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

'Trump/Conservatives wants them dead'. I am definitely not a conservative or fan of Trump, but having bad ideas and implementing bad policies is not the same as wanting people to die. But if that's the mentality you take when listening to opposing arguments(if you even listen)

This is an aside, but i wish those dumb assholes cared 1% about the hundreds of poor iraqis we killed as they do about pronouns in the bathroom, and whether men have pregnancies.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For sure :( Because that's usually what it is for them - Trump/Conservatives don't "respect the pronouns" and thus want them to die. None of them are in any danger, none of them will ever be in war or live in a country where homosexuals risk being beheaded... yet they're so privileged and self-absorbed they could give a shit about people who ACTUALLY need help.

[–]fuckupaddams[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There was a point I was both an active tumblr user and an active /r/tumblrinaction user lol.

I feel that hard. I got sick of that subreddit though bc of all the blatant fucking sexism eventually. But I get the general concept of being on both ends simultaneously lol

[–]blahblahgcer 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I still browse it occasionally but it can be too annoying sometimes lol

[–]redditbegay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This, we have a generation of mentally regressed coomers who have no ability to think for themselves, they latch on to the first group think they find, whether it is TRAs or neonazi activists. We can see this all over the internet, or just over a few minutes on Youtube. I think its proof that our education systems have regressed into full fledged cavemanism. And we need a NEW system for our future generations to thrive.

[–]fuckingsealions 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I grew up atheist surrounded by fundamentalist Christians who were always dragging me along to church, trying to save me, and telling me about their beliefs. I had no faith. I found a lot of the bible stories very interesting but none of them really seemed believable. I felt lonely a lot and thought I might feel better if I could just drink the Kool aid or communion wine. I learned later that you can have community without faith and was less lonely. But the lesson was there--i stuck to what I knew was true. I wasn't trying to get anyone to quit their religion. It seemed to be working ok for most of them. I was the weirdo and did not join in prayer circles, but we coexisted. I didn't insist they make room for me.

I did get in trouble for wearing a shirt that read the Satanic Army (spoofing the Salvation Army logo), and pointed out it was hypocritical that dozens of kids could wear their God themed shirts. That was probably my only battle and it was short lived.

I got drafted into debate club in high school, where I had to argue for things I found heinous. When I was in college I got interested in different religions, political systems, and philosophies. I thought I was looking for my "thing" but fortunately I found an education instead.

Because of my upbringing and being deliberately taught critical thinking, I question new ideas and I consider my gut and life experiences.

I was actually happy when the whole Boomer asshole, "special snowflake" discourse started a few years ago. I was glad people were being more careful with what they would say in terms of sexism, racism, ableism. I thought it would make people more thoughtful. But now people just seem very credulous and fragile when it comes to any ideological questioning. What are people so afraid of?

[–]blahblahgcer 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think people are afraid of being wrong. If they were truly confident in their beliefs, they wouldn't mind you reading into the other side.

[–]fuckingsealions 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We've been taught that one of the worst offenses is to ignorantly offend, I think.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I was actually happy when the whole Boomer asshole, "special snowflake" discourse started a few years ago. I was glad people were being more careful with what they would say in terms of sexism, racism, ableism. I thought it would make people more thoughtful. But now people just seem very credulous and fragile when it comes to any ideological questioning. What are people so afraid of?

I think that the goal of censorship that you wanted was achieved, (at least for those worshipping the temple of social media and trendiness). ALL censorship is bad. Always.

Whether its by a dictator, or for "good" reasons. Dictators always have those, too.

[–]fuckingsealions 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mm I think that's kind of a leap. I don't really see a problem with not being blatantly offensive when face to face with someone. I don't think I should call someone a slur in the name of never censoring myself.

[–]Eurowoman24 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I only snapped out of it when I left an environment with a constant feedback loop and thanks to JKR. I think there's several elements at play here, social conformism, and a general thinking of : poor minorities let's help them. People close to me are still fully immersed in this shit, due to always hearing the same pro - tra rhetoric and never being forcefully exposed to other points of views until it knocks some sense into them even gradually.

[–]Constantine 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Being raised by a women’s studies professor in an environment with no gender roles and where I was encouraged to question and argue any and everything just for fun helped. I always was told to see all sides of an issue, even when I vehemently disagreed.

I always thought I was super far left growing up in a conservative, religious town. Then I got to college and saw that all the other “super far left” students didn’t believe in free inquiry the way I did. It’s just two sides of the same ideological coin. The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle.

[–]redditbegay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I always thought I was super far left growing up in a conservative, religious town. Then I got to college and saw that all the other “super far left” students didn’t believe in free inquiry the way I did. It’s just two sides of the same ideological coin. The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle.

IMO, you can still be far left even if the current version of it is a mockery of free speech, free thinking, and pure liberalism. While there are so many differences between the two political opposite extremes, being a free thinker on either one is an accomplishment and an honor.

[–]Constantine 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've found that extremes tend to lend themselves to extreme thinking, i.e. wanting the other side to be censored. The only group that has consistently not been this way, in my experience, are those closer to the middle. Not the lame, uninformed "independents" who just say that they "don't like labels" to sound smart, but people with actually nuanced views. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they just serve to prove the rule in my opinion. The more I've looked into extreme views on either side, the less sense they've made sense to me. I'm still on the left, especially by American standards, but I've found that when I say that and when others do, we often mean very different things.

I think my favorite quote about all this is something along the lines of, "the day after the revolution, the radical becomes a conservative." I much prefer slow, gradual change that sees every extreme ideology as obstructive to real progress. Ironically, I think we get more done this way. When we have fast, extreme change we become susceptible to all kinds of nonsense, case in point being gender ideology.

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think I was predisposed to look upon it with skepticism due to my conservative background. My friends and acquaintances haven't been swept away by the craze. I've watched the progression of trans issues over the past 5 years with increasing discomfort. Because I always considered myself a moderate person and couldn't see any reason besides religion to reject gays and lesbians, I figured trans people would be similar. I started off uncritically pro-trans, even pro-child transition, because I figured there were safeguards, there was gatekeeping, and everyone believed in caution and moderation. I peaked because I ended up learning that isn't the case anymore.

As a gender nonconforming woman, I probably would have been more susceptible than most. Gender identity was appealing in a way because it allowed me to consider renouncing womanhood. I've always struggled with internalized misogyny and abhor the female social role, so that could have led me down the trans path. But even when I was trying out terms like "genderqueer" on Reddit, I could never get it to make any logical sense. When I found gender critical thought, it all came together. Gender identity is too much like a religion, and I never bought into my family's evangelical religion either, so maybe that also had something to do with it.

[–]fuckupaddams[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gender identity was appealing in a way because it allowed me to consider renouncing womanhood. I've always struggled with internalized misogyny and abhor the female social role

I can't understand how we stopped fighting for feminism to counter this, and have instead chosen to abandon womanhood completely instead.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I suppose it's because we've all internalized the belief that women are inferior. Porn culture has made this worse. I don't think it's a coincidence that this mass flight from womanhood is mostly affecting the generation of girls that was the first to be raised on hardcore, violent Internet pornography.

[–]threefingersam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My friends haven't turned trans but they're still supportive of trans ideology. I jumped off the trans support train thanks to TRA loons on twitter and finding r/gendercritical. Then learning about how the gender cult was polluting real life - trans preying on children and destroying women's rights. I found out what was happening overseas, and what was happening close to home - like men in women's sports, men in women's prisons, "pregnant people" etc.

There isn't a big difference between me and my friends, except that I decided to dig deeper and read about the implications/consequences of trans ideology. They tend to stick to mainstream media and don't read around much on the internet. Afaik, my friends have only been exposed to pro-trans media.

[–]MinisterOfTerfery 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I guess because I have more critical thinking skills and are aware at how much media manipulates, controls and brainwashes people and thus I am less likely to fall for it. Unfortunately if the media presents something as a majority view most people will fall in line because they want to blend in with the majority. And with this issue the media also pushes the idea that being anything less than supportive of everything trans makes you an evil bigot and of course no one wants to be an evil bigot.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely this. And looking back recently, think of all the covid crisis coverage, just how much of your media do you remember talking about sweden fondly, or how Canada and other allies of ours are paying their citizens ~1500-2000/mo AND their healthcare for as long as these shutdowns last? Now how many blame one party or the other without mentioning ANY of these things?

of course no one wants to be an evil bigot.

[–]PassionateIntensity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My age and experience as a GNC tomboy who would've been transed in our current environment. I've been there, and I know it's harmful, sexist bullshit. I'm not actually sure people I know have bought into any of this. They tend to dance around and be vague. I think they're mostly just afraid.

[–]MaleFriedanFan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pure luck. I read the first half of The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan and didn't get around to the rest until later, so I didn't have to grapple with her own struggles to understand homosexuality, while still getting to absorb her other ideas. I also got into blogs when it wasn't quite clear if they were supposed to be public newsletters or semi-anonymous diaries, so I read a lot of young women's semi-anonymous diaries, which helped make them seem more like me rather than being Women with a capital W, a strange other group. These combined together to help me realize that The Problem With No Name was a problem we all shared.

I was also lucky in that I am a bad photographer who struggled to understand hashtags, so I wasn't on a lot of the social media sites where the influencing was heaviest. I also found a Facebook filtering plug-in because I was annoyed that Facebook no longer showed posts from my friends in chronological order, and I happened to check the "no memes" box because I'd seen some annoying ones. This reduced one of the main probable vectors to much lower levels of risk for me.

If none of these things had happened, I would have been the exact same; the building blocks are all there, after all.

[–]penelopekitty 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most people lack critical thinking skills. They also like to fit in with the cool crowd and be seen as virtuous. I have never been like that, I would rather be alone than spend my time with inauthentic, intellectually challenged people.