To those of you who lost friends when you came out as Gender Critical, would you ever take those friends back if they came to see the truth of transgender ideology and tried to come back to you?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

This is something that I have thought about ever since I started slowly losing the few friends I've had over the year of 2020 ever since I came out as Gender Critical. I've been thinking about what I would do if for some reason my ex-friends finally learned the truth of Transgender ideology and tried to speak with me again. Would I take them back? See for me, the most upsetting thing about losing my friends is that as soon as I defended JK Rowling & Maya Forstater, I got dropped just like that outside of a few debates before they dropped me when they couldn't rebuttal my points but especially with 3 in particular who didn't even try to talk to me and see why I felt the way I did. It was quite painful.

And I'm not even sure if I could take them back seeing how fast they were to quickly drop me without even a talk at least. Keep in mind, this is all online friends so I mostly got blocked. Anyway I was just curious what you all think?

Would you take back your ex-friends who dropped you for your Gender Critical views? Has that ever happened to you? What would you do?

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[–]just_lesbian_things 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I wouldn't. In fact, I also have friends who are "neutral/undecided" who "don't want to hear about it" because just hearing about the reality of the situation I'm in makes them feel conflicted and uncomfortable. They don't want to know how shitty the trans community is to me because it makes it harder for them to retweet those shitty woke hashtags. I'm dropping them too. If you can't count on your friends to stand by you through thick and thin, or at the very least, to hear out your woes, what good are they, really? Some people are low quality.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Very fair point. I especially cannot with the "Don't want to hear about it" people. TOUGH. If you can't handle an ideology being criticized and it's faults in logic being challenged then don't act all high and mighty on a pedastal when you yourself are too mentally lazy to even listen to the opposing side because when it comes to this whole Trans community cult, newflash not everyone who's against it are people who hate trans people like these people so foolishly buy into. In a way I suppose I could understand because when I first watched Magdale Berns' videos which was during the time I was drinking trans kool-aid, I didn't know how to process what I was hearing until I bit the bullet and actually listened to what she had to say in her videos and it was just eagle soaring from there.

But it just also showed me just how much people don't want to see reality because it goes against the "WOKE" brigade...

[–]purrvana 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I remember watching my first Magdalen Berns video. I remember feeling SO uncomfortable because I, too, was drinking the TRA kool-aid. But literally after the first video, everything started clicking and I just kept watching and watching.

Man, I miss her.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Haha same. It seems she had that effect on a lot of people. You don't know how to process what she's saying because you're told that you're not supposed to be criticizing or questioning the ideology but Magdalen just could not give any less of a damn than she already did and you can't help but find that endearing and so you decide to go ahead and watch and you're mind is just blown lol.

I really miss her as well, she was an icon more than she knows. But on the topic I did come across another channel on YouTube who kinda is like Magdalen, very outspoken and to the point with a little bit of wit thrown in. Definitely check out You're Kiddin', Right? She's quite good :)

[–]aldoushuxleyghost 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I just found You're Kidding Right and I second that she is amazing.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Haha awesome. Nice to see more outspoken women not putting up with the bullcrap.

[–]lefterfield 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Nope. I can't be friends with people I have no respect for. I'd probably forgive them if they apologized, but frankly all I feel for them now is contempt.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I can understand. It's such a horrible feeling having to feel betrayed like that.

[–]lefterfield 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Part of it is the betrayal. Part of it is seeing a person you thought you knew in a different light. It makes me so angry to think that they went blindly along with an ideology that's sterilizing kids and taking back women's rights and safety. I was fooled too, sure, but I still listened to those who opposed it, did my own research, and came to my own conclusions. Some of my friends(that I'm still friends with) did that too. For the ones who didn't... what sort of people are they, really?

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right I agree with everything you said

[–]our_team_is_winning 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This has happened to me. Well I mean I've lost friends because I wouldn't drink the Koolaid and was very vocal about it. If they saw the light, I would be very happy. At the same time, people who cut you out of their lives over woke ideology are maybe not worth having in your life. In my case, I actually had to work with two TiM and the two friends who cut me off didn't actually know any, yet they were willing to cut ties with me on behalf of this demanding group that they had only read about.

The one particular friend, of 20 years (we're not teens, we're "old"), is very big on virtue signaling online I noticed. She puts whatever hashtag is currently trending. The other is mostly wrapped up with her husband. After having been very close to them for many years, it hurt to be written off because I think for myself.

I miss them because we had good times together, but that lack of loyalty hurts. You realize you can't trust people who would drop you on behalf of people they don't even know.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing your story, I can relate. It's the lack of loyalty that really hurts. I mean when you know that you'd never treat your friends in such a dismissive way. I mean it's one thing if you found out if said friend was a racist, rapist, molester, etc. but ideology? No. And yeah I mean, I would be happy as well if my ex-friends finally saw the light but at the same time, I just don't think I could ever take them back because it just shows where their loyalty lies, especially when you know that disbarring actually unforgivable things like Racism, Rape, etc., you wouldn't have done that to them.

[–]Tikiri 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If this happened to me, I would be happy that they finally “saw the light” but I would never resume friendships with them, even if they wanted to. Why? Because with people who are quick to drop you over some woke ideological difference that offends them, there will always be something else that comes along that will offend them, and if you don’t have the ‘right’ opinions about it, they’ll drop you again. How much of that can anyone take? It’s just not worth it.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very true. The trust is pretty much broken. I mean it'd be one thing if said ex-friend actually LISTENED to what you had to say before dropping you off but those who just dropped you without a notice? What is that? No thank you.

[–]NDG 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, because they compared being GC to being a racist. I might accept their apology, but I wouldn’t want to be friends again.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's fair. Forgive but not forget sorta thing (only also not want to associate anymore). I probably would do that for 2 of the friends who dropped me like that, accept their apology but not want to associate with them anymore.

[–]Marigold-plate 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wouldn’t. It’s not about this one issue. It’s about the thought processes that went behind this issue.

They thought it was an acceptable action to not to hear you out and consider your viewpoint. I can’t respect them after that. I’d like to know I can depend on my friends to be able to think critically. Else, why are we friends? We like the same hobby? Big deal.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a very good point and I agree. It's more about the thought process with how fast they were to drop you when they wouldn't even at least try to hear you out. They just drop you like a hot potato because associating with you is considered "Wrongthink".

[–]oh_hello_satan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Lol wtf I was thinking about this earlier today. I was imagining having someone reach out if this ever became a tipping point that was mainstream. I imagined saying "please go and fuck yourself" to them so yeah I reckon I wouldn't be friends with them again. I certainly wouldn't with the ones who did agree with me to my face, but then dropped me because of what their friends said about me. Those people are spineless. Yeah maybe it is a good thing, I realise now all these friends who dropped me were fakers. They always acted so self-righteous on believing in certain issues, anyone with differing opinions (ESPECIALLY women) were seen as conservatives, or nazis. For example they would tell me things like not to listen to Eric Clapton because he's a misogynist, but then gladly hang out with someone in real life who beat up his ex girlfriends and made my life a misery after I dumped him. Fake fake fakers. All they do is virtue signal. Hang around talking about their stupid ideas that they'll never do anything with. Find ways to criticise you when you do try and get into activism. Some of these even were activists, fighting with Extinction Rebellion (it's how I met them) - but a real, evident crisis facing women's rights is ignored? Worse, even - it's vilified. And they have the audacity to say I'm on the wrong side of history? Silly idiots! They clearly know NOTHING about history.

[–]MinisterOfTerfery 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The wrong side of history argument is so hilarious to me.

These people think that the right side of history will be the one that is in favor of cutting off a boy's penis because he likes dresses, letting convicted male rapists into women's prisons ,men breaking records in women's sport?

Like how do you get to a point where you actually think the people in the future will look back at this and go "Remember when that man was allowed into a woman's prison and then he raped 15 female prisoners? That was so progressive!"

"Remember when all the records in women's sport were broken by men? How great was that, I hope society never regresses back to women holding records in women's sport!"

[–]our_team_is_winning 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Trans Movement will hopefully be in the same Dumpster of Horror as the mass lobotomy craze (I'm willing to bet most people under 40 are not familiar with that -- imagine if schools had a lesson on abuse of women in the past instead of teaching pronouns!); yet I don't wholly believe it will be. Transing children might slow down, but the TiM movement is going to grow and they will continue to get firmly rooted in places of authority.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so sorry you had to go through all that and I totally understand why you wouldn't take them back. It's just painful seeing how people you thought were your friends would drop you so quickly just because you don't buy into the ideology and worse is exactly like you said, the ones who say they agree with you only to silently phase you out after. Worse if they're spreading lies about you...

[–]our_team_is_winning 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

PS Kai, I just realized this was your post. Seems like I hadn't seen your name in a while. I totally respect your honesty.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Haha yeah I've been a little busy so I haven't been on here as much but yeah, this topic just came to my head when I learned that one of my ex-friends who dropped me was giving out about how awful of a person I was and it just genuinely hurt me at the time.

[–]our_team_is_winning 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You're not an awful person. These people try to bully you into accepting their sexual fetish. They know it's wrong. That's why they need to hear other people agreeing with them. I'm vegetarian and it reminds me of people eating meat and telling me "do NOT spoil my dinner! I do NOT want to know where it comes from!" They don't want you to spoil their kink. I was even going to do a post on that myself. I am tired of being called names when I am the sane one.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The thing is though that this friend is not trans, she's a straight woman. But she was always very liberal about things pretty much "You do you" type of mantra which I liked but then when the whole TRA stuff popped out with the Maya Forstarter/JK Rowling situation, things went a little south. I never got to explain to her why I didn't believe in Trans ideology but I feel like she's one of those people who thinks that just because a minority of trans-identified men have perved and/or assaulted women doesn't mean that trans ideology is not valid or something like that...

[–]fuckupaddams 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm finding it interesting how it's really primarily straight women willing to back this movement, to the detriment of women. Being a feminist is no longer in.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. Most of my friends... Well the ex-friends I had were mostly straight women (and two "Pansexual"...). That's the hard thing about trying to speak out against Gender ideology when you get shouted down by these mostly women.

[–]purrfect 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't have any friends, who believe in gender woo woo, so I consider myself very lucky. I used to follow some twitter accounts, that turned out to be trans activists and I lost interest in them, but, to be honest, there wasn't any friendship there. That doesn't mean I haven't been in similar situations, so here's what I would do: Forgive, yes. Forget, no. The way I see it, these people managed to get out of cult thinking and people like that can be very helpful in the pushback against this ideology. The more assets in this fight, the better and rejecting them wouldn't help anyone. That would be the practical reasoning behind accepting them back. The emotional one would be that, this cult has been very clever in its disguise as "oppressed and downtrodden" and in painting us as right wing phobes. TRAs have taken advantage of gay rights activism, using it as a shield and camouflage, and hijacking people's best instincts. And, let's face it, people tend to go with the flow, until they hit the inevitable rock. All of this is reason to forgive. However, I don't see how forgetting or trusting them is an option. After all, they were ready to believe the worst of you without giving you the benefit of the doubt 🤷

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a very fair way of looking at it and yeah, thinking about what you said and how incidious the trans cult is and how it tries to self-victimize itself, it's a little understandable (but still a tad frustrating) with how people outside the cult can be easily swayed to join it. They try their absolute best to shut down any "wrongthink" that will peak trans people and what not so I do get it. So I could forgive my ex-friends who abandoned me but as far as trusting? I'm not sure because for myself of them up and ditched me without even hearing me out and one of which even went on to say to others just how terrible of a person I was. So I don't think I could ever accept someone who did that with no second thought back but nonetheless, your point of view was great.

[–]Chronicity 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I haven’t lost friends per se, but I’ve just been defamed as a bad actor on a message board community I’ve been a member of for over 15 years. My crime? Expressing skepticism that the informed consent model of care has improved transgender health and well-being. Because TRAs on the board can’t handle this viewpoint, the mods have indefinitely banned me from posting on transgenderism. It is surreal.

It doesn’t matter that I was respectful. It doesn’t matter that I supported my opinion with reputable cites. It doesn’t matter that I posted my opinion in response to a thread topic eliciting opinions about how trans are treated. It doesn’t matter that I know a thing or two about medical standards of care. All that matters is that my opinion was considered threatening to the gender ideology cult.

To add insult to injury, the message board’s credo is about fighting ignorance. Suppressing critical ideas only promotes ignorance, but you know, it requires some amount of critical thought to understand this. Newspeak is what the board is about now.

So I’m walking away from that community. Fortunately since JKR popped the cork in June, I’ve found other outlets for my opinionating. I’m posting here now so that I won’t be tempted to post there. But I’m still sad that I will be leaving it behind.

To answer the OP, I wouldn’t go back to any friends that cast me aside unless they apologized. I wouldn’t accept any passive merging back into my life without some kind acknowledgment of what they’d done.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so sorry you got banned but hearing what you said just fruther proves why the whole Gender ideology is a cult. It has all the signs of one but the most important one being suppressing thought Can't question the ideology otherwise you tamper with the thoughts within it.

Yeah I suppose if they apologize, it could be forgivable but it really depends on what they said in the aftermath...

[–]marmorsymphata 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These people are deeply brainwashed. You have to be to accept that genitals aren't sex indicators with nothing in it for you. Just no other way to explain how these ideas have spread. I mean, there are libfems out there that lose it when you propose laws against sex selective abortion because they think saying ANYTHING negative about it makes you a forced birther evil harpy spy. The woke movement hammers these people with propaganda so much every day about the whole world being black and white, sometimes it's not 100% their fault. These movements tell them that anyone who even says one word against the trans ideology secretly literally wants to lynch them.

I would accept tentatively. They would have to be 1. properly sorry, 2., not have tried to ruin my life over it, and 3., a quality enough friend to make me want to expend the effort.

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You guys are all so lucky. In my community, my industry, my background, the woke view is so mainstream and standard that it is very hard to find people who don't think that way. I have made my GC attitude evident to some people here and there, either in subtle ways or one to one if I had felt things out and thought they'd listen (not necessarily agree but be open to discussion anyway), but probably still the majority of people I know I just avoid the topic.

The few friends I have stopped interacting with bc of the issue have been kind of "dropping away" than any kind of big confrontation and I absolutely would take them back if they changed their minds. As I said for now I just keep most of my addressing of the issue to message boards or people I already know are open to talking about it, which is a minority. I don't have a lot of crazy level TRA friends, but I have plenty who are general virtue signaling, full rainbow rights for everyone oppressed, Trans people suffer so much and I support the underprivileged, types... It's always dangerous to poke at that at the wrong moment bc a lot of people don't actually want to think about it. They just want to feel good about doing the right thing.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You guys are all so lucky. In my community, my industry, my background, the woke view is so mainstream and standard that it is very hard to find people who don't think that way. I have made my GC attitude evident to some people here and there, either in subtle ways or one to one if I had felt things out and thought they'd listen (not necessarily agree but be open to discussion anyway), but probably still the majority of people I know I just avoid the topic.

Believe me I totally understand and relate, it's the same for me. Aside from losing my few friends I had, I'm a apart of both the Online art scene and the Goth scene and Transgender ideology crap is VERY prevalent in these spaces. So I totally understand how hard it is to meet people into similar interests as you but they're also drinking the Trans Kool-Aid and you know if they found out that you don't believe in the ideology, they'd shun you.

The few friends I have stopped interacting with bc of the issue have been kind of "dropping away" than any kind of big confrontation and I absolutely would take them back if they changed their minds. As I said for now I just keep most of my addressing of the issue to message boards or people I already know are open to talking about it, which is a minority. I don't have a lot of crazy level TRA friends, but I have plenty who are general virtue signaling, full rainbow rights for everyone oppressed, Trans people suffer so much and I support the underprivileged, types... It's always dangerous to poke at that at the wrong moment bc a lot of people don't actually want to think about it. They just want to feel good about doing the right thing.

Right. When I came out about my views during the JK Rowling/Maya Forstater case, I only had 2 big confrontations (though DM, most of my friends are online friends). The rest were the "Dropping away" variety. Slowly stopped interacting with me like whenever I'd comment on a post they made (that was unrelated to the virtue signaling), I'd never get a response but yet they'd respond to others.

t's always dangerous to poke at that at the wrong moment bc a lot of people don't actually want to think about it. They just want to feel good about doing the right thing.

Yep I noticed this as well when I had a few of the ex-friends tried to debate and they couldn't answer the simple question of "What is a woman/man?, Define them without using stereotypes" and some even blocked me. So I totally think you're right here. They simply don't want to think about it because they've been told by the Trans cult it's heresy to do that.

[–]angelduster 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm still neutral/undecided on some things but I know for a fact if I were to come out as Gender Critical, I would lose several friends. I already know one person who would be disappointed and jump to the conclusion that I'm "invalidating her existence" or something along those lines. So instead, I listen, ask questions, try to see things from their viewpoint even if I have a different one. I act like I'm unfamiliar with certain topics and words just to see what others think. I would only "take back" friends who show the same degree of respect and legitimately apologize.

I wouldn't take back friends who immediately drop me or go around to the rest of our group like "HEY EVERYBODY she's a TERF!!" I don't think it'd get to that point, but once someone's decided you're a TERF, it seems like nothing else matters after that. Then again, if a friend were to just take someone's word without speaking to me, then they weren't really a good friend after all.

[–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I would honestly. My male “nb” friend would need to show some serious self-awareness about straight white male privilege though because I’m irritated with him.

Overall we all make mistakes and get mislead, it’s juman. All we are looking for at the end of the day is connection and we do whatever we feel it will take to get it. So yes, I would take them back. I love them.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Would you take them back if they actually spread misinformation about you to other people though? Like they think you're a Terf and they tell others that you're awful and not to be trusted...?

[–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think the amount of crow they would have to eat to realize they were duped, would be enough of an exercise in humility that I could forgive them. We’re all doing our best I think. But also to my knowledge no ones been badmouthing me. If they were doing that it’s a good indication they are pretty dysregulated and it might not be a positive relationship to hold on to.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right. Yeah only one person has done this to me and it just really hurt and I'm not sure I could take them back if they ever see the light about this trans crap but yeah, I think your explanation is totally understandable.

[–]threefingersam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hasn't happened yet, but it depends on how deep my friends are into the TRA cult. If they were quick to 'cancel' me and all that, I'd be wary about being friends with them again. But for friends who are at least open to discussion, even when disagreeing, I wouldn't drop them.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I was mostly referring to the former. They just up and drop you without even discussing things with you. Or they say that they don't agree but publicly say they won't drop you but secretly they start limiting contact with you until you're just not talking anymore