More Concern Over the Online Art Community

submitted by Sistersovermisters from self.GenderCritical

First post, long time lurker of this sub and the GC subreddit (rest in piece). I am a digital artist, and I have already seen a lot of the trans community ingrain itself into the online art communities. But today, I was just left shocked. I've noticed in the past few years that there has been a trend with art portraying top surgery for FTM individuals. Like, these characters feature these scars as part of their character traits and whatnot.

I feel that this is a very concerning development, and I am curious to hear your opinions on this matter as well.

I actually just watched a video that was uploaded today by a youtuber I have followed for a while (I was picking up on trans-positive language from the artist for a bit now, but I respect other's individual creativity so I stuck around), and this video had a character. With flowers. As their top-surgery scars. Excuse me -- WHAT?!?

I have some examples of this art that I've noticed, and I understand double mastectomies exist for women who had to remove their breasts due to health concerns, but this feels like normalizing this kind of body mutilation for FTMs to a whole other level. I am very concerned, as a woman and as an artist in her early twenties.

Examples of this top-surgery art that features scars:

-https://www.deviantart.com/paodraws/art/Comm-Loki-Ref-742532211 -https://www.deviantart.com/wateredplants/art/Pepper-Ref-752701284 -https://www.deviantart.com/punkocalypse/art/Oct2018-Reference-JD-767547556 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY_KpOR6IA8&ab_channel=Quiet-Stars (The video that shocked me into making this post)

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[–]MarkTwainiac 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

OP, after our recent exchange on this sub, I am so glad to see you not just posting, but starting a thread! Good for you.

Yes, double mastectomy scars in girls/young women seem to be getting normalized. Worse, they're seen as a badge of courage and coolness, the ultimate symbol that "I'm not like other girls."

Please keep looking, thinking, raising concerns and objections and posting here. Finding your voice as a young woman is hard especially nowadays, and given the current cultural climate finding the courage to speak out is difficult for all of us regardless of age. I am impressed that after just recently expressing tentativeness, you've started a thread. Best wishes to you.

[–]LasagnaRossa 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Worse, they're seen as a badge of courage and coolness, the ultimate symbol that "I'm not like other girls."

I wonder if these girls hate breasts because they're the symbol of sexualization. "Remember girl, you're not a person first, you're an eye candy, a fucktoy".

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I've also seen multiple detransitioners who no longer wanted to be male but loved their double mastectomy and did feel it relieved all their dysphoria. I understand completely why girls would hate their breasts, even if I don't think taking them off is the first go-to.

Meanwhile, I notice that multiple detransitioned females first loved their changing voice and now it's their biggest issue/regret. I figured maybe it is at first loved as sign of regaining control over your body after the turbulence of puberty, a traumatic event for everyone. Not capital T traumatic, but something that happens to you quickly that you have no control of and changes everything around you. But after it's a big reminder of how you chose to do something to your body that you didn't fully understand.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've also seen multiple detransitioners who no longer wanted to be male but loved their double mastectomy and did feel it relieved all their dysphoria. I understand completely why girls would hate their breasts, even if I don't think taking them off is the first go-to.

Growing and having breasts can be disturbing and distressing for girls for a host of social reasons. My hunch is that when ASD amongst females is better studied and understood, it might emerge that the experience of growing breasts also causes special sensory issues for girls with autism or autistic traits.

Puberty for girls really is hard: it brings bleeding on a regular basis from one part of our body, often with painful cramps and unpleasant physical symptoms like sore breasts and water weight gain beforehand. Plus two new appendages pop out of our chests - entirely on their own, whether we want them to or not.

Males' penises and balls grow in puberty, and the testicles drop too. And they get spontaneous boners and have wet dreams that are embarrassing, confusing and often distressing to them. But males don't grow two new body parts in puberty - only females do.

[–]lefterfield 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Could also be in part because of the novelty of it. But then they start to realize that it's permanent.

[–]Sistersovermisters[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you! I felt encouraged and figured it was time to take a leap into more discussion. I felt a lot of detachment from my breasts for such a long time and idealized removal, back when I idealized transition as an escape from previous things that had affected my life. I just worry that there must be way more of those kinds of people like me, around a similar age and considering the radical change/removal of the breasts. I'll try to speak out on anything I notice that is verging into concerning territory, even if it's just furry art or something like that.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You should go onto lolcow artist salt most of them share the same pinkpilled viewpoint about what's happening in the art community. A couple months ago I binged read most of the recent threads and it was pretty therapeutic. There has been a lot of recent trolling so you can't really talk about trans artists drama anymore but it's really nice that lolcow is only for women and how tired they are with the current artist community.

[–]Sistersovermisters[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh gosh, I've frequented a few major lolcow artists in the past few years. Funny enough, I think I found them when I was just discovering the GC subreddit. Reading it definitely helps, and I think it really shows the delusions that a lot of trans artists go through at different stages.

[–]emptiedriver 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm older and not at all familiar with anime/ trans related art, and I have to say this would have gone completely over my head. They just look like random cartoons to me and I would not have noticed whether they were male or female or meant to represent someone who had mastectomy scars. It's intriguing that it stands out as so glaring and upsetting to people more involved. I think if I decide on the sex of a cartoon, it's based on the voice... though generally, cartoons are just sexless.

It is still sad to see mastectomies normalized or made to seem like a symbol of power. Breasts should be normalized, not seen as any more or less sexy than men's nipples. Not wearing bras, not wearing tops if you don't want to, should be normal. Men sometimes have more shoulder muscle, women sometimes have more chest flesh. Cosmetic surgery isn't brave.

[–]threefingersam 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've seen a lot of that stuff online too. Lots of characters with top-surgery scars, not just on deviantart, but twitter and furaffinity (furry-themed art site) too. I'm not surprised that furry and trans crossover so often. It's about the escapism and fantasy. But yeah, body mutilation shouldn't be aspirational.

[–]Sistersovermisters[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is most definitely about the escapism and fantasy with furry and trans crossovers. I have left a lot of communities where it was prominent (one of my major peaking moments), and I fear it's just going to thrive on Twitter and other social media where art like that is shared.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Every generation has to learn the hard way that their idols are fallible. For whatever reason for these socially awkward young people it's furry artists who they idolize. I don't think it helps in the SJW culture that adults are scorned for not understanding or having concerns about 'trans-issues.' When I deal with kids, I make it a priority to show that it's possible to be a misfit kid but a very happy and secure adult. There are so many GNC lesbians here who know what it's like to go through the struggles of being GNC and other people who would love to help be the role model they wish they had. But the glam of getting a lot of internet praise is more tempting to young people.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When I deal with kids, I make it a priority to show that it's possible to be a misfit kid but a very happy and secure adult.

The other thing I try to make kids aware of is that even the other "cool" kids they assume to have it all together and who in their eyes don't have a problem in the world often don't experience themselves that way, nor do they necessarily have problem-free lives. Lots of kids who seem happy and "perfect" and popular and carefree on the outside have difficult home lives where they are subjected to various kinds of abuse, suffer trauma like grief, or ongoing tragedies like the protracted illness and dying, mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism or deterioration into disability of a family member is going on. Most people in adolescence feel awkward and experience a lot of shame and think there's something wrong with themselves. It comes with the territory of growing up as a human being in modern society.

[–]Sistersovermisters[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Every generation has to learn the hard way that their idols are fallible.

I think the unfortunate reality of this situation is that these furry artists can prey on awkward young people and win them over to their side of trans rights and AGP-esque hypersexuality. It's not like every furry in the community is like this, but I have found it is not isolated to myself in experiencing this kind of situation. I know this too well, as I was groomed and abused by the furry community when I was a bit younger. It seems like a very repeated action in the community, where they isolate lonely and 'weird' individuals, and try to get them to attach to the artists or whoever is popular in the fandom. It's that feeling of wanting to fit in, which I am sure most generations deal with. It is very much a disgusting feeling though when it feels like you have found a safe place, but you are actually integrated into oversexualization and TRA cult-like behaviors.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It seems like a very repeated action in the community, where they isolate lonely and 'weird' individuals

My impression is that it's even worse than this. These communities seem to be hell bent on trying to convince kids and young adults who are having feelings and thoughts that are predictable, customary, commonplace and entirely routine in adolescence and early adulthood that such thoughts and feelings mean these kids and young adults are "weird," set apart from and scorned by their peers, and will cause no one in their own or older age groups ever to understand or accept them - except for the furries, gender cultists, kinksters and predators.

This is abusive, wrong and not based in fact. Most people can relate to the thoughts and feelings of those who are lonely and considered "weird." Loneliness and alienation are things most human beings have experienced. Same goes with feeling weird, awkward, out of place, embarrassed just for being.

If you and your peers were to encounter me IRL, I imagine you and your peers might regard me as boring old woman your gran's age - and that you'd assume there's no way I (or many/most older women) could ever relate or even imagine the issues you are dealing with. But we actually can. We dealt with this stuff when we were young, and this was true of "GNC" butch lesbian women as well as more conventional looking (mostly) het women like myself. But our solution was feminism and the rejection of sex stereotypes. Whereas today's young people are being taught that the solution is misogyny, pornography, "sex work" and the embrace of sex stereotypes.

I am so sorry you are coming of age in this horrible time of backlash. Please keep looking askance at what's going on and speaking out. Young women like you finding your views and voices give me hope.

[–]Skipdip 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah that is quite a bit disturbing. Didn’t think it would bother me, but yep it does.

[–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, kinda disturbing. DeviantArt has a very similar community to Tumblr, so its unfortunately not surprising. Fantasizing about cosmetic surgery is now 'woke'.

(Annd as a biology nerd, that's not even anatomically correct for the type of animal that the character is supposed to be...)