Just received my first mega ban from a Reddit sub because of My GC views

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

Well I knew it was only a matter of time before people would find out I'm Gender Critical but I didn't think it would affect a group I was heavily invested in. So I've been into the Goth scene for a good long while and I used to frequent the reddit group fro the subculture for years but as of today, got official banned and I feel weird. Like I had a feeling it was gonna happen but I'm still kinda shocked.

I never posted any of my GC views on that sub and mostly kept it outside of it. Even when trans-identified people in that group would talk about their problems that GC views would definitely answer (especially Trans-identified women "Transmen"), I bit my tongue and just focused on the topics of the threads. But because I'm a YouTuber who's somewhat prominent in the scene, they did take notice to how I'd comment on GC videos. With my ban ,they actually created a thread to publicly call me out and list my transgressions from my support of Maya Forstater and JK Rowling back in 2019 to me not indulging in some closet-case bisexual man who claimed to be straight for liking trans-identified men/males and me just being blunt and saying that they're men. Its funny because the way they went about the thread was like a timeline of my beliefs because they went as far back as 4 years ago to when I still believed in the trans ideolog

What really got me though are the comments people left about me which were quite a few. The one that really stood out to me was ""If you're an outcast hating on outcasts, you're a hypocrite". so simply because I'm alternative and considered the fringe of society what with being a nonconforming, feminine presenting man, I'm not allowed to be critical of an alternative ideology apparently. I dunno. Or how they don't understand how a GNC gay man like myself could even be critical of trans ideology and in my head I'm like, "How could I not be?" I really do think that we GNC men and women are the more likely ones to see through the Trans ideology since we prove that "gender" is a social construct that can be broken.

I'm sorry, I just needed to do a light vent. Like I can't say I'm surprised because when you're Gender Critical, I know you have to run the risk of being seen as the bad guy or a monster but it's gonna be a bit of a bummer since I genuinely love Goth music and it was nice to have a place to talk about it with others who liked the music as well. I was already banned from a few Goth facebook groups back during the Maya Fortstater/JK Rowling situation so I guess it was inevitable that Reddit would be next.

Anyway, done rambling. Just needed to clear my head.

If you're curious about the call out, here's a post ( https://www.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/ncn7mn/transphobes_are_not_welcome_in_the_goth/ )

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[–]GConly 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Join the club.

The sad thing is most of them think they are supporting the rights of transexuals who had childhood GD. They think they sex offend like women, have women's brains...Yadda Yadda.

They've been told the TERFs are threatening harm to transwomen, that transwomen are being mass killed in hate crimes, that kids commit suicide if they aren't instantly affirmed and transitioned...

Basically they've been lied to, and they've been told anyone who calls out that bullshit is hateful and causing transpeople to die...

So they mass ban anyone who criticises. Because we are "the bad guys" and it makes them feel virtuous.

You'll notice they don't actually check to see if we are lying, because then they might get exposed to facts that conflict with their worldviews.

I've had so many bans. Never posted one lie. I've had whole arguments deleted because the truth triggered the shit out of them. One memorable incident on gendercynical where I asked them if they could find me data to show they offended like women. Posted lots of claims of police discrimination then deleted the thread when they realised the offending was the same as male.

Yes, they do sex offend like men.

No they don't have wrong sex brain areas.

No most of them don't have diagnosed gender dysphoria.

No most of them didn't have childhood GD.

No they don't get killed at a higher rate than average.

No the kids won't kill themselves.

No the kids won't stay trans in most cases.

Yes autogynephillia is a real thing.

Sorry, got ranty. Know how you feel.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They've been told the TERFs are threatening harm to transwomen, that transwomen are being mass killed in hate crimes, that kids commit suicide if they aren't instantly affirmed and transitioned...

But this is so freaking stupid If they actually looked into these claims, they'd see what a bunch of nonsense it really is. I tell these people to find me stories of a "transwoman" being murdered by a woman. CRICKETS. I show them statistics of how most "transwomen" are being murdered by other men and are a lot of the time sex workers, a dangerous business where murder is unfortunately common, especially towards women. And the whole suicide thing that is blown out of proportion. It's just maddening.

Basically they've been lied to, and they've been told anyone who calls out that bullshit is hateful and causing transpeople to die...

Hence why they don't even bother to try to stand their ground and defend their beliefs when they come across someone who doesn't belief in them. When I asked these people to define "woman" and "man" as well as to define what "living" as either sex is and how there's this growing erasure of Lesbians and Gays. They NEVER answer, they just yell "transphobe" and think that's a valid argument.

So they mass ban anyone who criticises. Because we are "the bad guys" and it makes them feel virtuous.

Right...

You'll notice they don't actually check to see if we are lying, because then they might get exposed to facts that conflict with their worldviews.

I know this to be true because I did the same thing before I peaked with Magdalen Berns helpful videos. I would always try to avoid any content that criticized the trans narrative because in my brainwashed mind, we were told to not question the ideology but once I took that plunge and actually tried defend trans ideology, I started to see the cracks in the ideology and well, 3 years later and I'm not GC. I think that's how it works for a lot of us to be honest, art least those of us who initially bought into the ideology.

I've had so many bans. Never posted one lie. I've had whole arguments deleted because the truth triggered the shit out of them. One memorable incident on gendercynical where I asked them if they could find me data to show they offended like women. Posted lots of claims of police discrimination then deleted the thread when they realised the offending was the same as male.

That is both bad ass and sad at the same time. Sad because they couldn't accept that maybe their ideology wasn't as foolproof as they thought it was. They couldn't accept that you came with the facts and resources to back it up and they couldn't handle it.

And no worries on the rant, it's totally justified.

[–]GConly 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That is both bad ass and sad at the same time.

It's sad just how much that one sentence defines me...

I have seen some of the stuff I've posted being repeated (odd phrases, sources, my conclusions) by others so I know that my constant grind approach is working/helping.

This happened a few years ago in a different matter. It's kind of gratifying seeing people repeat your phrasing on forums.

So don't give up interacting with the TR supporters. A lot of them genuinely have no idea what's actually happening.

This is what front line activism is.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It does give some hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that maybe, just maybe people will finally wake up and see what this trans madness is really doing to society. And will do!

[–]TheOnyxGoddess 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

A kid will kill themselves, because they either have other issues, or that kid is stupidly dramatic enough to want to be seen as a martyr (e.g. Leelah the TiM), but no one seems to notice that part of the problem comes from people giving people praise and special attention to people who does this kind of stuff. That's how we get so many attention seekers.

[–]Vari4 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Lol I logged into my reddit account to give some of those subs some shit.

Only to find that my account had several warnings from reddit mods for "promoting hate"

How is it hate to say that a man isn't a woman just because he says he is but not hate to say that a white person isn't black just because she says she is?

Reddit is trash.

We should mis-gender everyone on that platform :P

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well this is the site that unleashed a wave to silence women against gender ideology as well as Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual people who don't buy into the "T" neither so not surprised...

[–]SnowAssMan 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

lol OP replied to the "outcasts hating on outcasts" comment with "you mean me?" didn't expect that self-awareness.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I did get a little chuckle from that as well lol.

[–]SnowAssMan 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I posted a reply to that post 8 hours ago now & have yet to be banned, which is unusual for reddit. Typically, they never even warn you, or reply, or try to communicate with you at all. They treat you like a re-offending criminal in a fascist state that takes people away in the middle of the night without a word. It's so weird that that's the norm on reddit.

The most upvoted post on that sub is yours. Their loss.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It all happened kinda fast really because I did get a comment before the ban and the comment was the person saying "It's not too late to stop being a transphobe" and then poof, ban.

I didn't know one of my posts was very upvoted, that's nice I guess but yeah, it's gonna stink not being able to interact anymore. First the Facebook Goth group and now this one. I hate this hive mind mentality they have. But what can you do really...

[–]fuckupaddams 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Don't feel bad, I got called out and interrogated on one of my vegan subreddits for a comment I made earlier in an askreddit thread about how Aimee Chanellor is in fact, not a woman. Completely unrelated.

Want to add that I am also a goth (username hints at that) and I agree with your GC opinions. Goth is all about gender non-conformity. Goth never said femininity and eyeliner = woman. Goth always said men and woman can look HOWEVER the fuck they want. Somewhere along the way things got lost.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Wow? Even a sub like Veganism has that TRA nonsense? Seems like it invades all over lol. And yeah, aside from Goth being about music, the scene was also welcoming of gender nonconformity. It wasn't saying that men and women are the opposite if they prefer to look nonconforming but just that they'd be welcomed and not judged for it. It's already getting annoying because I see some people trying trans Rozz Williams....

[–]gloom 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is awful Kai. I am a fellow goth. I saw you get cancelled real time yesterday and immediately thought of your posts here. Weirdly I had no idea of your views before I saw your posts here recently in the last few weeks. I just knew you from your vids which are cool. I was thinking it was brave of you to post under your main online name considering the risks. Then within days you get cancelled.

The whole thread condemning you is pretty self serving.

It is news to me that we now have to cancel other goths for having differing opinions about gender. I always thought there was one thing the goth scene demonstrates is that gender roles and expression are utterly subjective. I love the scene because it destroyed the gender policing, so common in wider society when I got into it long ago. Because it was a safe place for all genders and sexualities to flourish. Now look where we are in 2021.

A gay Black goth has been cancelled for just thinking WRONG! It is appalling.

The crazy thing is the posts they link to just show how reasonable you are and indeed how you don't actually hate trans people at all. It is like saying an atheist is a bigot and hates all Christians when he just questions Christianity.

I don't know you if you saw this from Aytakk further down in the thread in part of the thread that was downvoted:

"I also have a friend in another city who was hit on by a trans lady and she wasn't interested. When asked why she said she doesn't like dick. The trans lady kicked up a big fuss and ended up being excluded from the bigger group because of her behaviour and attempts to divide friendships over it. From what I could tell it was her disruptive behaviour that got her outed as there were other trans people in the group too."

Classic piece of predatory homophobia from a trans person. This is exactly the problem that people are refusing to admidt exists. How they hell can we say Trans people are totally safe when some pull this stuff. I have a bunch of trans people who I love, but I just can't support overruling women's safety concerns, because I know this type of things happens. Notice how Aytakk has to justify the expulsion as if it is inherently unlikely a trans person would pull this kind of stuff. It is just brainwashing. Reality is most trans people are fine just like most men are, some however are not safe and we have to admidt predators exist and support women in staying safe. Yet Aytakk somehow can justify cancelling you even though he knows this stuff actually happens.

To add to the insanity they are comparing cancelling another goth who expressed support for the Confederacy to being Gender Critical as if the two things are remotely comparable. Because supporting feminists is the same as endorsing slavery and a war which killed 100,000s of people.

If you question the narrative at all this is what can happen. It is chilling.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for the kind words, I was honestly surprised that there are goths from that sub who are on this website but if it means anything, I appreciate the comment because it shows that not all in the Goth scene are some hivemind even though that thread made it look like that to be honest.

The biggest reason why I was so surprised at the banning was because I never once posted any of my GC beliefs in that thread nor did I start fights with any of the Trans-identified people in that group. But yeah they still felt like I'm some dangerous person who needs to be hidden just because of what I said (which aren't even hateful) outside of the group on my own time. The funny thing is that I hadn't seen my old posts in a long time so going back to them was a real nostalgia bomb, especially the JK Rowling one because I had people trying to challenge my views and I accepted it. I tried to be as fair as I could by simply answering the questions and asking questions back but revisiting that comment thread, I noticed how not one person even bothered to answer any of my questions which should really show to others how the ideology is faulty.

Ans you're so right about what the Goth scene originally stood for. Aside from the music, it was also known for it's open-mindedness when it came to gender roles and how it was no big deal for men to be feminine or women to be masculine. But now in the 2010s, the w0Ke crowd invaded and now it's all about this trans insanity. Like it was getting really bad when you have people trying to trans Rozz Williams (RIP) of all people... It really aggravates and annoys me because he's one of the few somewhat prominent GNC men aside from the late Pete Burns.

Reality is most trans people are fine just like most men are, some however are not safe and we have to admidt predators exist and support women in staying safe.

Exactly. While I do mention AGPs, I never said that all trans-identified men were Autogynephiles because they aren't and for the most part are fine but just a little lost because they're thinking too much about socially constructed gender norms and I don't think it should be wrong to point that out.

And I would figure that Aytakk since he's somewhat GNC himself would understand where someone like me is coming from but it appears not...

To add to the insanity they are comparing cancelling another goth who expressed support for the Confederacy to being Gender Critical as if the two things are remotely comparable. Because supporting feminists is the same as endorsing slavery and a war which killed 100,000s of people.

That's the thing that pissed me off, I won't lie. Them comparing me to a confederate who may be racist (I haven't actually looked deeply into this topic yet) was truly upsetting but again, not surprising...

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm sorry you had this experience. It's really pathetic of them to go through your timeline like that, only toxic bullies do that.

But kudos to you for being so brave to stand up for your beliefs! I hope some of the other GC goths will have the courage to come out and support you. In the mean time i reported the post for harrasment and sharing private information. I hope some admin picks it up and removes the post but i don't have much hope.

It sucks losing a space you though was home but you will find new ones. The tide is turning. Start practicing "i told you so" in a 100 different ways ;)

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you. I had a feeling this was gonna happen eventually, just didn't think it would be so soon really. And there was one GC goth who commented here so it gives me some hope that not all Goths are TRA types who can't see the bigger picture.

The tide is turning. Start practicing "i told you so" in a 100 different ways ;)

Will do lol.

[–]RiverSong 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I sorry that a community that you've been a part of is so backstabbing. They can disagree with your views on the matter, but since you didn't bring those views into that sub, I think it's so childish to use your GC opinion against you. They act like five-year-olds, stomping their feet against something they don't like. These people should grow up!

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. I mean, I'd understand if they were doing it because I was posting my GC views in that sub and upsetting their trans-identified people that were a part of it but I made a vow to never talk about it there because it wasn't necessary and even with the trans-identified people there, they were easy enough to just ignore because I was there to socialize about the music and the scene, that's it. So I find it very unfortunate that they're acting like you have to be a certain way to be seen as acceptable to be a part there. And then they try to compare me to a confederate racist and that's what really aggravated me.

[–]Greykittymomma 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Wow how pathetic of them. I was a baby bat back in the 2000s I will be sure to check out your stuff.

I follow many types of content from as many different voices and perspectives as I can find.

These woke as a joke people are just making their own lives miserable and dull they just don't see it yet.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Aw thanks. My stuff is mostly just teaching newbies about the music and addressing some stereotypes and misinformation really.

These woke as a joke people are just making their own lives miserable and dull they just don't see it yet.

It would appear so and they don't realize it because they're trapped inside the bubble.

[–]Greykittymomma 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was so nice being part of a subculture that emphasized wearing what you want. I was able to thrift and make some weird outfits. I mixed men's and women's fashions and duh dyed my hair black.

I wear tons of colors now but I still follow goths on social media. I love the aesthetic (and we celebrate Halloween as the main holiday in our house!) Year round skull decorations are common.

It is very sad if individuals are being stamped out for not conforming to gender roles of all things. My partner and I don't always conform to gender roles of our "assigned" sexes. Oops we must be nOnBiNaRy QuEe*s!

For heaven's sake!

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well my banning was mostly because I don't believe Transgenderism is a real thing. I don't believe that you can change your sex or that transwomen are women or transmen are men and apparently that's heresy in the Goth scene.

[–]filbs111 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You seem pretty cool. Seen a few of your gaming videos. It's resentable how much power those that moderate reddit etc have to steer a "subculture".

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I had no idea they'd take it that far. I thought so long as I don't bring my views to the sub and antagonize the Trans-identified people there, it would be fine but apparently not.

[–]our_team_is_winning 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans Demands try to ruin everything.

The one that really stood out to me was ""If you're an outcast hating on outcasts, you're a hypocrite".

You're not an outcast. You're part of a subculture. There's a huge difference. These Trans Demands folks want to be outcasts. They're all about oppression points.

I don't know if you've started on the GC videos I thought (keep hoping!!!) you were gonna make? There's a niche here for you for sure -- GC males are underrepresented on YT. Subculture guys who are not on the trans train are underrepresented too.

Don't let them chase you out of Goth. No way. Spend more time developing your own YT channel with a focus on GC Goth and you will have your own posse following who don't use the word "transphobe."

[–]SexualityCritical 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so glad you're speaking up about what you believe in Kai!

Just in case you wanna know, I'm 'SunnyScientism' on Reddit. I asked you recently about that whole goth rock project thing. I've created an account here, being inspired by you, including many others. Gonna start speaking my mind on gender critical topics. It's a horrible thing what the goth sub did, but you yourself knew it was coming sooner or later. The truth is, TRA rhetoric is extremely repetitive, and almost all the time there's no arguments whatsoever. TRAs just say the same thing over and over again, with no variance. Reading that post they made on you is, in educational terms, indistinguishable from not having read the post. Nothing new has been said. It's the same old grossly offensive appropriation of intersex struggles always used.

As Loutrotte has typed: '"YoU'rE eItHeR bOrN a FeMaLe Or A mAlE, XX or XY", while conveniently forgetting intersex people born with different chromosomes combinations).'

Firstly, it doesn't make any sense as to why this would be applied to trans-identified women or trans-identified men, since they virtually always possess either XY or XX sex chromosomes, and with more people coming out as trans-identified nowadays, even less intersex people are included within such social demographics. Additionally, someone with XX or XY chromosomes is either male or female, due to possessing, or not possessing, the SRY gene. If someone has the SRY gene, they're male. If they don't, largely or entirely absent of it, they're female. Is this TRA making such a comment implying that, by birth, some trans-identified people are neither male or female, in terms of sex? What the fuck? Why'd they transition, anyway, if they were that close? An intersex individual is either male or female, and they can never, ever change that. And there's nothing wrong with them being male or female and not having all the genetic components commonly associated with their sex, the same way there's no reason for a 'feminine man' or 'masculine woman' to change their sex because they're different from most people. It's just absurd, misogynistic nonsense that spews from the mouths of TRAs.

I hope you're doing well mentally, Kai. I really hope, one day, you make that video on gender criticism. Thank you for actually believing in something, something which is the truth, no matter how many TRAs it enrages.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It nice seeing another black goth who is talking some sense.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks!