I am a right-wing feminist, so reddit has banned me on a number of fronts.

submitted by ech from self.Introductions

Since at least 2010, I've been extremely online, and gravitated to both extreme-idpol (feminist, antiracist) and right-wing sites. I'm a longtime Steve Sailer commenter, for example. For awhile I posted at TRS and in some NRx forums and slacks. I started out in my late teens reading fringe political sites because of some fascination with persuasion and argumentation and the gymnastics people perform to rationalize views which are fundamentally emotive or dogmatic. But over time, I developed opinions about the content I was reading. I agreed with some of it, and disagreed with some of it.

I never considered myself a feminist until I'd spent enough time in the online right to realize that the issues Western feminism had ostensibly conquered weren't actually settled. The world's second-largest religion wants to enslave women, and Western elites turn a blind eye. Men get to beat and rape women in the context of MMA and prison, so long as they identify as low-effort trans. And an increasing number of men, including men who agree with me on other issues, viscerally despise women in a way that is disturbing and sad. When I was in school, I never thought "feminism" was necessary -- but when people invoke "feminism" to describe (disparagingly) rights as basic as suffrage or the right to refuse sex, then I'm a feminist. I also find reddit's radfem subs, like PinkPill, a refreshing rejoinder to both (i) the swamps of internet misogyny I've wallowed in for years; and (ii) the weak, pathetic libfem milieus like Jezebel that purport to speak for women while demanding we behave like subrational vain nympho conformist SJW doormats.

Over the years it is not an exaggeration to say I've probably amassed >100 banned Twitter, reddit, and disqus accounts, often with Google Voice phone numbers to match, which I tried to track for awhile in a spreadsheet before giving up. The gentrification and censorship of the internet is probably my #1 political issue, aside from maybe Islamic immigration. Anyways, hello.

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[–]GConly 39 insightful - 6 fun39 insightful - 5 fun40 insightful - 6 fun -  (28 children)

right wing feminist

Shit, I thought I was the only one. Guess I'm not the snowflake I thought I was.

Over the years it is not an exaggeration to say I've probably amassed 100 banned Twitter, reddit, and disqus accounts,

I got so many bans from so many subs. Left, right and centre, I pissed off everyone. My last haunt was the mens rights sub, where I ruthlessly corrected some if their shitty data. I also haunted the hell out of /r/incels, twox, feminism, science, psychology.. Banned from the lot. So many accounts. I got a shadow ban once because I won an argument with a mod, and he had to remove every trace of it. I really used to get under mrsamsa's and drewiepoodle's skins.

Men get to beat and rape women in the context of MMA and prison, so long as they identify as low-effort trans.

I've got some great data collected on their criminal offending, if you want it.

[–]ech[S] 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

Excellent to meet you. I think we are snowflakes to some extent, but there are more of us out there, and one thing that attracts me to the pinkpill/blackpill feminist subreddits is the hope of meeting more women who don't bootlick or grovel to woke elite consensus.

[–]RecordStory 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (20 children)

Lol, you're a bootlicker for sure, just licking the boots of cops and Trump. The reason there's not more people like you is because people aren't generally this fucking stupid.

[–]ech[S] 34 insightful - 5 fun34 insightful - 4 fun35 insightful - 5 fun -  (17 children)

Cops and Trump have never harmed me, and are unlikely to harm me in the future. They've certainly never slobbered at the prospect of seeing me fired, humiliated, or killed in retaliation for my political speech. If I malign cops or Trump, I get a book deal and retweets. If I use the wrong tone or pronouns discussing Nikole Hannah Jones, I am a pariah Karen. You are the real authoritarian menace, sorry.

[–]Themagicalmidget 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

This. People always tell me to fear Trump, but is he the one that is going to get me fired and ruin my life if a say one none politically correct thing online and my info is doxxed? I feel like sometimes we are living in a Maoist cultural revolution.

[–]Sh--t 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't like him but I don't fear him. I don't think he's smart enough to be pulling the strings with any of this. He's focused on his ego and getting his fill of praise.

So he's easily manipulated in that way but I'm not even gonna pretend I know what's actually going on in our government. We'll find out eventually...maybe. all I know is that corruption is everywhere and I literally don't trust anyone anymore haha

[–]RecordStory 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

run from this cult

[–]mharmless 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

Run back to Reddit, where your tranny mods can provide the illusion that you aren't fucking crazy.

[–]ech[S] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

Do you mean from gendercritical, or trumpism?

[–]joojoobean 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

reddit too boring now without us?

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    [–]MarquisBoniface 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Both of you should visit s/Gender_critical, run by an anti-censorship feminist

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–]GConly 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

      Bitter much?

      [–]marmorsymphata 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

      Never seen a post that gave off such intense turbo virgin vibes before

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        [–]miaowkitty 29 insightful - 2 fun29 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

        Hello sister, nice to meet you. I have also gravitated more towards the right lately. And I actually think that Islam and SJWs are the biggest threat to women in today's world.

        [–]ech[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Nice to meet you too :)

        [–]medium_tomato 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        It's a sad day when pointing out huge holes in Islam means you align with the right and not the left "liberals". I don't mean that as a slight against the right, more pointing out that the left is so self-righteous that they have become sexist, racist, and hateful.

        [–]ech[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        I agree totally. A left-liberalism based on principle and not tribalism would detest Islam. The problem is that the organizing principle of the left isn't empathy, fairness, or individual rights as they claim, but instead sticking it to the Red Team.

        [–][deleted] 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

        I don't think there's anything there I disagree with, and I say that as someone that 5 years ago was posting almost exclusively in /r/mensrights. When it comes to things like muslim rape gangs, eastern european trafficking, celebrity paedophile rings, treatment of women by other cultures and the tiny subset of angsty misogynists that still exists in mine, I find myself fully onboard with the feminist cause. But it's truly alarming that issues that should be at heart of modern feminism are actually defended by the wave of intersectionalists and marxists that have infected the cause. Just like BLM has clearly been hijacked by a bunch of white middle class communists that have tacked on a list of bullshit demands to the cause, feminism had the same happen years ago.

        [–]ech[S] 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        But it's truly alarming that issues that should be at heart of modern feminism are actually defended by the wave of intersectionalists and marxists that have infected the cause

        This is 100% true. I identify as a feminist in the ways discussed above, but I truly loathe what "feminism" has become.

        [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

        Don't know too much about MRA, but I agree that sometimes men are left behind in some places. In a Japanese documentary, I saw, they were saying how there were almost no homeless women because society intervenes before or quickly after it gets to that point while men have less resources and are seen as failures. This isn't the case for the US, because young, old, male, female all have equal opportunity to be homeless. I disagree with what I know about the MRA paternal rights though. I don't doubt that there are men who get the short end of the stick against terrible women, but the converse is true as well of men with more resources weaponizing the court against women. Two examples being, Bode Miller and Christopher Savoie

        [–]motionlessoracle 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Point of order, I spent quite some time volunteering at homeless shelters. Most of our customers were men. Poor women in the USA know they can have a kid and get housing, health care, and some money from the government. Poor men, often with severe mental illness, are just out there on the street.

        ETA: I'm no MRA, but I felt it was unfair not to help the men out, too.

        [–]Papitas 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Just like the "feminicide" problem is in fact a security problem that affects us all, the weaponized family courts is a problem of shitty people abusing the system that needs to be addressed in a non sexist way.

        [–]Feck_Reddit 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

        Brilliantly written and articulates how Reddit is now. I am sick to death of being shutdown by thugs that don’t like to hear a different opinion. Like you said, why does no one challenge Islam’s horrendous treatment of women? Also why is so much all about historical slavery when the Middle East and norther Africa enslave more now that ever before. And in my country the UK, nobody understands that the Barberry slave trade enslaved more British & European white people than the number of black African people that were sent to the American 13 colonies at the height of that slave trade.

        [–]ech[S] 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        If you try telling the average woke westerner about the Saharan slave trade they literally don’t believe you.

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          [–]Middernag 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (31 children)

          You don't think Judaism is just as sexist as Islam and Christianity? All three of these JCI (Judaism Christian Islam) religions are the same, neither of them are Western, they're all dessert cults that oppressed native European beliefs. You'll be fighting your entire life for no reason if you only fight one aspect of the three-headed monster.

          [–]ech[S] 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

          As practiced IRL, mainstream Judaism is clearly less misogynistic and threatening than mainstream Islam. I wouldn't want to live in a theocracy governed by any of the Abrahamic holy texts, but the Muslims are the only ones actually trying to make that happen at scale.

          [–]Middernag 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (13 children)

          Is that why Jewish people have male children genitally mutilated at birth? Do you know what percentage of them die each year, much higher than FGM, but I guess your feminism is the same as the other where it's completely oblivious to male suffering. When a woman has a period she has to sleep somewhere else, that's Judaism for you, not to mention sacrifice of non-Jewish children. The reason you perceive it to be less threatening is because they've already conquered you, isn't that why such a large percentage of your American politicians have dual Israeli nationality? Why isn't the SS Liberty acknowledged? Why is BDS illegal when my people, white South Africans were boycotted for killing less than 400 black terrorists between 1946 and 1994?

          Judaism has already infiltrated and exerted control over your country, to think it's Islam that is the greater threat is an indication of personal ignorance on your part. In the Talmud they admit they don't think Gentiles have souls, which is why they ritually sacrifice Gentiles. Maybe you should look up the Jewish belief that Gentiles were invented to be their slaves.

          As I said before JCI, it's one problem, not three, but when your children grow up in a worse state than you, you can tell them that you were too afraid to question the narrative and be labelled an anti-Semite to liberate their minds.

          [–]ech[S] 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

          Is that why Jewish people have male children genitally mutilated at birth? Do you know what percentage of them die each year, much higher than FGM

          LMAO. I don't support male circumcision but you've succeeded at discrediting yourself instantly, congrats.

          I've been through all the JQ shit and I actually met Kevin MacDonald IRL. I do not find JQ compelling, and would rather live in Israel or Manhattan than literally any Muslim country. If we disagree on that, then you should move to -- and enjoy -- a Muslim country of your choice.

          BDS was wrong in the 1990s, and it's wrong now. That doesn't mean it should be illegal, though.

          [–]marmorsymphata 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Hearing MRAs act like cutting off a small amount of dickskin in the hospital is worse than a little girl being forced into a hut, having her clit and most of both her labia cut off with a knife with no anesthetic, and then have her wounds sewn together so that it heals into a bizarre flesh prison with a tiny hole left for pissing so that all the men of the village know she's a virgin, and then sawed open with a knife on her wedding in front of the village for the husband to consummate-- assuming she makes it that far since a huge number of them die of PID-- is just hilarious.

          Maybe if there was a practice out there of cutting off a boy's dickhead and cutting a line up from their penis to their navel and forcing it to heal attached to the body so they can't use it for penetrative sex until they're married when the wife cuts it back off, it would be comparable.

          [–]ech[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          The oft-used analogy is true: it's the difference between cutting off the fingernail and cutting off the hand. And one is done to an infant for more-or-less arbitrary reasons, while the other is done to a much older child for sadistic reasons.

          [–]Middernag 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          Sorry little boy, this isn't reddit, it's not a popularity contest and thus I haven't "discredited" myself.

          Secondly, I don't care what you've been through, nor do I even acknowledge Kevin MacDonald as some kind of expert on the subject, he's just another shill. I actually live in South Africa, a country your Jewish masters already fucked up, so I don't need to move to a muslim country to perceive the difference between races. Nobody insisted muslim countries were great, but muslims aren't the ones that control the Western world, Jews are, and it's a fact, look at the conglomerates and who head them. Look at who you're not allowed to oppose or question in the West? Jews.

          BDS isn't wrong, because wrong is subjective. I'm a nativist who believes in Europe for Europeans, and I'm not a hypocrite so I apply the same ideals to everyone else, Palestinians are better than Jews, easy as that, and the fact that people sanctioned Apartheid while condoning Israel is the greatest contradiction in human history. But then again, since you're fine with being a Jew's bitch, you probably believe they're above any rules or standards too.

          [–]ech[S] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          I haven't "discredited" myself.

          You have, you just don't realize it, which doesn't surprise me.

          Palestinians are better than Jews

          You also seem like a misogynist who hates any kind of ordered civilization, which also doesn't surprise me. I mean, otherwise, I don't see how you could have a single favorable word to say about Arab Muslims.

          I'm curious though, who do you think KMac is shilling for? The jews?

          [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

          I don't see what is bad about BDS though

          [–]ech[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

          It purports to target Israel for human rights abuses, but ignores worse human rights abuses elsewhere. Some people say the real impetus is antisemitism, but I think it's anti-civilization. Israel is an unapologetic white-ish ethnostate willing to defend its demographics and borders. Keffiyeh third-worldist activist types don't actually care how many innocents are abused or enslaved -- if they did, they'd care about the plight of women in MENA or dissidents in China. They care about signaling against the West and white people.

          BDS against South Africa was misguided for the same reason. Nobody can pretend with a straight face that South Africa now is a better country than it was under apartheid. I don't like apartheid but in the grand scheme of things, it seems like it was the lesser of two evils.

          [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

          I think israel does run a lot of things in USA and other western countries, to say that gets you labeled antisemitic and an unperson, to instead point out human rights abuses and call for boycotts is harder for those israel supporters to argue against, and the way they put in laws against BDS while not putting in laws against these other countries you mention makes them look like hypocrites, which I think is the main point here. Trump did put in tariffs against China. A lot of people criticized China in the way they treated Hong Kong but then you saw a lot of celibrities and corporations bend the knee to support China, showing cold hard cash considerations behind it and not really caring about human rights. It's always good to use these tactics to make people look like hypocrities I think. Am I a hypocrite for supporting BDS, truth is I'd want to boycott every country out there that is not USA, it's another cold hard cash consideration because if we put boycotts and tariffs on goods from other countries, that helps American businesses here in USA. That is anti capitalism and anti competition but well I'm a far left socialist economicaly, I think most people are and that Trump is actually to the left of dems like Hillary economically and that is really why he won. One good thing about this is you can help american businesses at the same time as hurting human rights abusers in other countries, to me it is win win and I don't understand why others disagree, well I know why, due to MSM propaganda. Trump is pro israel though, and of course anti BDS. Who am I to vote for that is pro BDS though? Only a few dems like Omar support it, none for president out of Biden or Trump. If you think for yourself there is no downside to BDS.

          [–]ech[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          I think israel does run a lot of things in USA and other western countries, to say that gets you labeled antisemitic and an unperson

          Criticizing Jews qua Jews gets you this, but criticizing Israel is downright fashionable. Powerful Jewish figures and institutions ranging from Jon Stewart to the New York Times hate Israel. It's fashionable for the same reason that criticizing cops and white people is fashionable.

          If you think for yourself there is no downside to BDS.

          I see a downside to it because I applaud what Israel is doing (enforcing its borders, protecting its heritage population, and keeping Islam marginalized), and wish the West could do the same. If there's an economic upside to tariffs, then let's apply them in an economically optimal fashion, not a fashion designed to scold Israel for not wanting to get swamped by Africans.

          [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          yeah well fashiionable just because it's the only way to do that, and even that is getting towards being disallowed in all facets of society. I find it kind of like the streisand effect. Them telling me to not criticize Israel is what made me look more into it, more into conspiracy theories about jews, seeing a lot of truth in who rules us. Jon Stewart hates Israel? I did like his show and he spoke truth to power but that might be why he lost his show and isn't as in the media as much anymore. Does NY times support BDS? I suppose there must have been opinion pieces on it. I don't really read that.

          I guess I do understand too why Israel enforces borders, and I kind of feel like if Palestineans don't like it, they should just move. But if I say if black people don't like it in America they should just move, that looks racist. Both whites in America and Israelis in Judea stole land for natives. The only problem here is when Israel enccourages other countries to have open borders while enforcing their borders stringently at the same time, it's that hypocrisy again which agitates me.

          [–]Wahwah 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Muslims on average actually takes their faith way too seriously IMO, that is the reason most number of terrorist fatalities around the world generally come from Islamic terrorists. Comparing that to Jewish and Christian terrorism -almost nil, to the extent that these terms sound uncommon.

          Why is BDS illegal when my people, white South Africans were boycotted for killing less than 400 black terrorists between 1946 and 1994?

          How is South Africa is like right now, if you happen to be there.

          [–]Middernag 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          So you're telling me, that you're comparing terrorist attacks to Jewish control of Europe and the US? Dude, you people are so brainwashed...

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            [–]hector_died_of_aids 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

            christianity is sexist? you mean loving your woman tenderly, taking responsibility for being head of the household, etc? sounds like you're a faggot pagan with no actual knowledge of christianity

            [–]Girlwiththeraventat 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

            Ah yes. Christianity. Bastion of womens rights. You're "loving" women by keeping them down. Telling women they have no rights to be teachers or leaders. Saying women should never have authority over men.

            [–]hector_died_of_aids 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

            keeping them down

            how so?

            Telling women they have no rights to be teachers or leaders

            women can't lead, it's not their nature. women trying to lead is chaos and destroys society, just like dudes putting on a dress pretending to be women but aren't

            Saying women should never have authority over men

            they shouldn't. it's demonstrative of a society in its last stages before collapse. btw what that collapse looks like, every time, is subhuman primitive animals invade and rape all the women. so have fun with that

            ps: ppl who use words like bastion, spew, etc are retards

            [–]Girlwiththeraventat 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

            How does christianity keep women down? By telling them the only thing they are good for is having babies and being quiet. Please give some examples of these societies you are talking about.

            P.s. I love being a retard lmfao

            [–]hector_died_of_aids 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

            being quiet

            didn't say that, emotional cunt

            [–]Girlwiththeraventat 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

            Lol I said christianity says that

            [–]hector_died_of_aids 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

            no, it doesn't. cite scripture saying it. and i know you can't because i've read the whole bible. the closest you can get is that women shouldn't speak up in church, but instead should talk to their father or husband, because the hierarchy goes God, then man, then women, then children

            [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

            I agree on this except for using whatever words is ok, knowing more of the english language shows high IQ and shouldn't be discouraged.

            [–]hector_died_of_aids 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

            it's not about using more of the language, it's regurgitating words that are popular in propaganda d'jour. it's antithetical to high IQ

            [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

            trying to control language, the last bastion of a coward

            [–]hector_died_of_aids 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

            i'm not trying to control language. ironically, dumb faggot, i'm laughing at ppl who have their language controlled as witnessed by parroting words that are fed to them

            [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

            making fun of people for having higher IQ than you. did you really think bastion and spew were big words? You don't think I could say the same for antithetical, regurgitating and d'jour? Just admit you took an L here. Focus on legit criticisms of people.

            [–]Middernag 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

            You mean that Jewish desert religion that shames sexuality and demonizes women? Also, don't mistake European manners and customs for being Christian, just like most the appropriated holidays the fact is that most of the manners have remained from pagan times, there was only a short period of time when that was not the case, and that's what has lead to the rise of feminism in the first place.

            I wonder, were they loving their women tenderly when they were forcefully converting Europeans to their Jewish religion? Is that why there's a book about the thousands of methods they used to torture people, like raking a woman's tits off? Hmmm...

            I never said men aren't naturally the leader and doesn't assert control, but that's hardly a Christian ideal is it? That's how indigenous European people lived too. I'm a white Afrikaner who grew up Christian, so I've ample knowledge of Christianity, and how deluded and uneducated it's adherents tend to be. Christians cannot be European, because they are spiritually Jews.

            [–]marva 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            Reading this thread made me create an account! I didn't even have an account on Reddit! I'm also more of a right-wing feminist. I can't believe I'm not alone! I used to be right-wing (non religious) only until the intense levels of misogyny on display woke me up (specifically the redpill sub and the whole dark enlightenment). That's when I realized the real reason underneath my dislike for mass immigration was the misogynist cultures replacing our more progressive one. I wouldn't have a problem with mass immigration if it was exclusively women. It was a lightbulb moment. And I could never quite find a place where I fit in nor how to find others.

            [–]ech[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            Really glad to meet you.

            Regarding mass immigration, I would be willing to let in some women if they couldn't chain-migrate their husbands and sons, and if they could be vetted to ensure they reject Islam.

            [–]marva 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Sorry I wasn't clear. That's what I meant. Islam is the worst in regards to women's rights. Hands down.

            [–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (37 children)

            I've been following radical feminist stuff and white identity & white nationalism stuff

            [–]King_Brutus 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

            I didn't realize there was any cross between the groups you mentioned.

            [–][deleted] 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

            well I'm a White woman. Where else am I supposed to go? the white nationalist scene is largely anti-female, and the feminist scene is largely anti-white.

            "White people suck! They're the cause of all the worlds problems!" "Fuck this, I don't deserve to be shit on, what happened to fighting for everyone to be treated well?"

            "Oh hey someplace people are looking out for White people's interests!"

            "Women are dumb and stupid and cause all the world's problems"

            "Fuck this, I don't deserve to be treated like shit"

            "Well, I guess I'll just read the feminist stuff when people treat me like shit for being a woman, and read the pro-White stuff when people treat me like shit for being White".

            It's not really that complicated.

            [–][deleted] 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (25 children)

            Once folks start questioning a component of Critical Theory, why not question the whole thing? After all, they all spring from the same source.

            If you do question Critical Theory as it pertains to sex, is it wrong about gender? How about race? Capitalism? Eventually chasing the truth long enough will either set you free, or make you a paranoid blackpilled person. That one is still up for debate.

            [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

            yeah, this too, but that doesn't explain why I wouldn't have just left the feminist sphere entirely (which I didn't). the white-positive sphere really does have a problem with anti-female-ness. (and non-White male hangers-on often try to make it more about female-hatred than about pro-whiteness, I've seen it a few times now.).

            this is true though. there was a phase I went through when I thought that a lot of this "progressive stack" stuff is just a sort of trans-white-male-ism. I just couldn't get on board with trans being forced on people, and then I started seeing how people were using the same style of arguments for the rest of the "stack".

            People weren't asking for everyone to treat them the way everyone already treated Black men, or White women, or Black women. They were asking to be given the same treatment as White men, even though they weren't White men.

            [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

            the white-positive sphere really does have a problem with anti-female-ness. (and non-White male hangers-on often try to make it more about female-hatred than about pro-whiteness, I've seen it a few times now.).

            You're not wrong about that. I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand the arguments against universal female suffrage. Women's nurturing instincts are easily subverted into the destruction of civilizations through emotionally driven support for mass immigration and entitlements. This statement is hard to argue against because there are dozens of historical examples. Women get equal voting rights or acquire power, and a civilization is dead within a few centuries. In general people making this argument still love women, they just don't want (most) women having a say in how the society is structured. There are inherit conflicts between female nature, and the cold rational decisions a government needs to make.

            Those that are actively hateful towards women tend to be ostracized in most spaces. Many I think are just edgy incels that latched on to the movement to have a sense of brotherhood somewhere, since in modern society nobody wants omega males. This problem is not unique to WN movements and communities, but also plagues various feminist circles that inevitably fill with skeevy "nice guy" allies. The only WN space I can think of actively hostile to women is Dailystormer, perhaps some of TRS. Both are sites that have discredited themselves in every possible way over the years, including this one.

            The only thing that unites these various communities are the 14 words, beyond that they are all over the place. That those words are offensive to anyone shows how far gone we are down the path of anti-White hatred. There is nothing morally wrong with the statement, "We must secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children." - unless you think the extinction of White people is a moral imperative.

            [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

            It seems like it's pretty pervasive to me. Imo the "alt-right" and associated communities pretty much grew out of the PUA-culture manosphere communities as a reaction against feminism. Something genuinely pro-white seems to be evolving out of it, but I think it was primarily formed of anti-SJWs, by the groups attacked by SJWs (white, men, straight, christian) looking for entertainment.

            There are several male alt-right leaders I used to follow.. they had such nice things to say. "The highest form of White activism is raising White children in a healthy environment to become good husbands and wives themselves". "Go free from white guilt, there's nothing wrong with you or your people". But then I check the next day for a morale boost and find comments denigrating women. Or claiming "the essence of manhood is being able to say fuck you I don't care what you think" to a woman. Most men in these movements seem kindof low-key anti-female.

            There are inherit conflicts between female nature, and the cold rational decisions a government needs to make.

            I mean if you've got a bunch of historical examples, I haven't researched this and I don't know that you're wrong. But it also seems like it's coming from anti-female-ism.

            And it makes me feel insane and doubt my own cognitive process, instincts, etc, etc. "Am I just inherently unable to think, like they say?" Well, no, I don't think I am. And that's why it feels like the feminist spaces help, because everywhere else is saturated with stuff like this. I can see other women behaving intelligently and rationally. And then I spend less time thinking, "can I even trust my own thinking?" and go back to just getting on with whatever it is I'm thinking about.

            And it seems like there are recurring problems with male-dominated societies. See /s/crime for some recently-posted examples of patterns of failure to protect women in societies under male authority.

            Like, it just seems like radfems are right about a lot of things, in the way the alt-right is right about a lot of things about anti-Whiteness being a problem and pro-Whiteness being needed. It's like neither side gets it. They're always like "oh 13/50" or "oh 50/99" but neither discusses the other half. I was surprised to see a post in an alt-right space a little while ago mentioning radical feminism and a lot of guys there were like "yep, don't blame 'em, we're pretty violent, their viewpoint is pretty understandable."

            There's also stuff in White history in particular that's set White men and White women against each other, that we may not have fully recovered from.

            Silvia Federici documents clearly how the lower classes had their ways of making a living taken from them during the primative accumulation phase of capitalism, and in that process women were stripped of their economic activities and of everything else they had. The witch burnings were about breaking the will of women, their children, especially their daughters, and their communities. That guys went along with it, or over time just accepted the new order, is maybe the worst thing in western history because it bifurcated us. (comment link)

            There are a few people in the pro-white sphere pushing back against the anti-women stuff, too. If you find them you might find their perspective interesting.

            [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

            I mean if you've got a bunch of historical examples, I haven't researched this and I don't know that you're wrong. But it also seems like it's coming from anti-female-ism.

            And it makes me feel insane and doubt my own cognitive process, instincts, etc, etc. "Am I just inherently unable to think, like they say?" Well, no, I don't think I am. And that's why it feels like the feminist spaces help, because everywhere else is saturated with stuff like this. I can see other women behaving intelligently and rationally. And then I spend less time thinking, "can I even trust my own thinking?" and go back to just getting on with whatever it is I'm thinking about.

            Here is a starter point: https://www.bitchute.com/video/BIWnf2tqpa63/ | You can dive deep down the rabbit hole using this as a launch point. It's fair to say I don't believe in Universal Suffrage in general, other discussion within this thread on that topic. Many make the mistake of leaping from "the average of X group is Y" to broad sweeping statements that can not equitably be applied universally. I'd also recommend the book "Libido Dominandi: Sexual Liberation and Political Control", by E Michael Jones - it's rough around the edges but haphazardly points in many other useful research directions.

            Having said all that, an overarching approach to addressing any problem should be aimed at the average rather than the outlier. For instance, if I actually wanted to live in a multicultural society - I'd still wish to eliminate taboos related to race realism. I'd want a classroom full of Somalians to have a different curriculum and educational objectives than a classroom full of Japanese kids. Using the same approach for both is just setting up the Somalian kids for failure.

            There's also stuff in White history in particular that's set White men and White women against each other, that we may not have fully recovered from.

            Based on my admittedly limited exposure to Silvia Federici's claims, I'd call her a Marxist crackpot that interprets everything through her own Critical Theory lens. The accusations she levies within this work are not concordant with my own extensive research into European history.

            There are a few people in the pro-white sphere pushing back against the anti-women stuff, too. If you find them you might find their perspective interesting.

            Certainly, I'd appreciate links or names.

            [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

            Certainly, I'd appreciate links or names.

            I used to do that, but the content creators I linked got banned... so I don't do it anymore. I think if you're meant to find them you will.

            There's also stuff in White history in particular that's set White men and White women against each other, that we may not have fully recovered from.

            It's not just this author in particular (I don't know anything about her, I just thought that guys comment was pretty interesting). The witch burning stuff did happen, and many do theorize that it was about Semitic conquest. Women carry the culture both literally in their eggs and behaviorally through carrying the people's traditions. It's usually the womenfolk who like to decorate around holidays and stuff, yeah? Who teach the children about their heritage and where they come from? Who grow stuff, both plants and people. Women are stereotyped as being concerned with living things and nurturing and growing them.

            So the idea is the witch burnings were part of the conquest to destroy the old cultural traditions as part of the conquest. They had to kill the tradition, and to do that you kill the women, turn people against the women who refuse to bow to the conquestors ideology (Christianity), etc. Yes there were men burned as well, but it was mostly women because of women's role.

            Men were encouraged to view women in this horrible way, as horrible, dirty things. The medieval torture devices and stuff you see. Even today men are still excited about "burn the witch!" ... they don't realize that's their own people's women :( Some see echos of this in pornography with the way women are treated badly. ("porne" is derrived from a word for buy/sell and may have referred to sex slaves) Pornography is a continuation of the same tradition that is evident in sex trafficking problems of eastern european women in the middle east. Women look so degraded in pornography because that's literally what it is, it's viewing these women, our White women, as the spoils of war, as slaves, who it's ok to degrade. Perhaps as less than human if that's really the view of some middle eastern groups. Imo that's where "dumb blonde" may come from as well. If you look up depictions of White goddesses they have a very different aesthetic about them, but that's not how women are usually presented in pornography. Because it's less erotic? No, because it's less porn (slave)-ographic. That's also why pornography is so objectifying: slaves are in a sense seen as objects as compared to a Free(beloved) woman or man.

            For another perspective, there is also the femanon who goes around 4chan talking about how all enduring societies are matriarchal. Jews survive because they are matriarchal, for example. A race or people is, in a very real sense, it's women: she hold the majority of the biological matter needed to propagate the species, she knows the culture, etc. And men are biologically less loyal. Males of many species also often tend to travel more in search of their mate than females do, creating more opportunity for disloyalty. She points out the greater racial infidelity rates among White men as compared to White women. I suppose the reality might be that the fate of the White race has always been in its women.

            To go back to education and IQ, imo most male alt-righters have somehow too biologically fixed an idea of things. It's like they somehow don't recognize that things can be nurtured, that improvements can be made. Idk, I could be deluded about IQ but it seems like they're ignoring part of reality there. Habits of mind matter. IQ objectively changes throughout life, sometimes in response to environment. I saw a post in an alt-right space that recently women were measured to surpass men in IQ, perhaps as a result of changing roles. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a woman of Somalian origin, and ... well, she survived by protecting herself intelligently from those who would do her harm, and her friend Theo did not.

            Overall your point about averages seems sound though. I don't think anyone would want to permanently be relegated to the "dumb class". But maybe the better way to do this is more individualized and self-paced learning, as the internet and interactive stuff is increasingly making easier. And which would also be possible through home-schooling. And which is perhaps more natural anyway, letting children just learn naturally through play and exploration rather than through being told "do it exactly the way this other person says to do it."

            That was a bit of a jumbled reply, sorry. I think I got in most of what I had to say in response to your post though.

            [–]taibo14 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

            I think a lot of women get their ego tied to suffrage. Democracy is a numbers game, so it's not about whether you personally are cogent and resistant to emotional manipulation, it's about the majority of women (or x group). If your response is that the same can be said about a lot of men then I'd agree.

            [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

            If your response is that the same can be said about a lot of men then I'd agree.

            It is, I don't think mob rule (democracy) is a good system of government. Republics wherein voting rights are earned rather than taken for granted have a far better track record. That the US started out that way and has undone it all with amendments doesn't give me much hope on that front either. The US founders were right about needing to tear the government down and start over again every 60 or so years.

            The pathological altruism of Europeans has ever been our undoing. If we feel something is unjust we tend to make retarded decisions based on emotions that have dire long term consequence.

            [–]ech[S] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

            OP here. I, too, am skeptical of democracy, but edgelords who just pick on female suffrage specifically are usually lame misogynists. There's no principled basis in this day and age for granting universal suffrage to men and not women. You constantly see shitposters harp on the 19th Amendment and women's "nurturing instincts" or alleged incapacity for independent thought (males who say this are often, themselves, NPCs), but nobody mentions the antisocial, burn-it-down tendencies of unattached young males. Male voters got us the Immigration Act of 1965, and male voters are more likely to favor war than female voters. If you really want to limit suffrage, there are better schemes, such as:

            • Suffrage for families: A married man and woman with at least one child collectively get one vote.
            • Suffrage for taxpayers: Self explanatory.
            • Suffrage based on a test of cognitive ability and/or civic knowledge: self explanatory.
            • Suffrage based on national service: self explanatory.

            All of these proposals seem less popular, in my experience, than just trashing women. Perhaps because the NEETs who populate these discussions don't have families, or pay very many taxes, or distinguish themselves in any way other than being male.

            [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

            I agree on everything you've just said. I've always been fond of a "net contributor" twist on the taxpayer approach. If you pay more into the system then you take out - you have a say in how it's spent. It's fair, and to the point. My wife and I have talked at length about the first approach as well. It's decent because only people with "skin in the game" have a say.

            However, any of the options you've listed are better by far than Universal Suffrage. Hell, all of those being ways to "earn the vote" simultaneously would even be fine. Then politicians would be forced to pander to those 4 groups, and that doesn't sound bad at all comparative to the pandering they do today...

            [–]ech[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

            Exactly -- "skin in the game" is a big part of the appeal, ditto that you get to prune which audiences are pandered-to.

            I basically agree with Peter Thiel that if I have to choose between liberty and democracy, I choose liberty. But, joke's on us, because soon we're going to have neither. LOL.

            [–]Liinukkaloinen 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            Women's nurturing instincts are easily subverted into the destruction of civilizations through emotionally driven support for mass immigration and entitlements.

            Such nurturing instincts are hard to distinguish from female socialization, i.e., the idea that girls are brought up to be subservient "handmaidens", whereas boys are brought up to act independently. In this sense, the alt-right and radfems both agree on existence of "pathological altruism", although disagree on the nature vs nurture axis. To me it seems that the rise of GC ideology proves that women are perfectly capable of loosing such shackles.

            Furthermore, I doubt non-European women will soon be voting for mass immigration in their countries. Even if female nurturing instincts are real, they are still trumped by kin selection. The wholly unnatural process of manufacturing consent for ethnic self-dispossession takes decades of anti-nationalist gaslighting, as we've seen with Europeans.

            load more comments (1 reply)

              [–]ech[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              We have had similar experiences.

              [–]ech[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

              In my experience the overlap is rare, but you do run into fellow travelers every once in awhile. The overlap ought to be more significant objectively, since the best societies for women are Western (arguably, "white") ones.

              [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Would you not consider each ethnicity's society best for the women of each ethnicity?

              [–]ech[S] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

              I guess this raises philosophical questions about the nature of good and what's "best." My instinct is that societies where women are likely to be tortured, murdered, or forcibly raped en masse are not good societies for women. Like, if you are dying from complications of infibulation, I would argue you are obviously worse off than you would be as an alienated immigrant elsewhere.

              Importantly, I am not making an argument for immigration. Even if it's true that Pakistani society is objectively worse for all women than, say, Western European society, that doesn't mean it's in the interest of Western Europe to impose feminism through imperial adventures or invite hordes of refugees.

              [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

              White nationalists want you dead lol

              [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

              No, "white nationalist" just means the existence of sovereign White nations, though people can also have other beliefs.

              [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

              90% of them are fascists, who want a town down, autarky and dictatorship free of the degeneracy and filth of Judaism, feminism etc.

              No white ethno nationalists want feminism lmao, of such a state existed you'd be dead.

              [–]ech[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

              Greg Johnson essentially says: "let's have a white country first, then we can debate feminism." Jared Taylor is pretty hospitable to feminism, too. I also used to be friends with Enoch before he got doxed. These guys are reasonable on women's issues if you engage with them patiently. There are definitely #WhiteSharia edgelords out there but if WNism ever took power (it won't), it would need to do so on the back of a much broader coalition. I don't think they would ever implement feminist policies, but they're not going to be exterminating white women for posting feminist arguments on the internet.

              I personally do not identify with hardcore WNism, though. I am more of a Sailer type.

              [–]King_Brutus 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

              I consider myself not a feminist and typically disagree with a lot of what feminists say but I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm wondering what kind of mysogyny you've experienced online to see where we may differ.

              [–]ech[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

              I suspect a lot of people who self-identify as nonfeminist, or antifeminst, agree with my basic egalitarian premises above. The misogyny I'm talking about occurs along a spectrum. Most subtly (and probably most controversially for purposes of this discussion), I always noticed an undercurrent of animus among many of the MRA-type posters on mainstream websites like reddit. They seemed more interested in harming (or at least venting about) women than concretely improving things for men. But this was a mild, recurring source of exasperation -- not a big misogynist blackpill.

              I also spent significant time on chans, mostly /b/, /pol/, and /r9k/ in the 2000s and early 2010s. If you're familiar with those sites, you know what they are like. I don't mind the irreverent, chaotic old internet -- I enjoyed it. I made edgy jokes too. So if it had just been a mix of rape jokes and porn and other random content it wouldn't have bothered me. But over time it became very clear that a lot of these guys viewed women as (i) meatholes only good for fucking and degrading, and/or (ii) uppity bitches who must be brought down and harmed. This was especially true on r9k where more serious discussions prevailed and you could see proto incel ideology emerging.

              I posted on another forum I can't name because it's private, but it contains a lot of men in my professional sphere. I work in a mostly male industry. At work, everyone is polite and I have no real complaints. I have been promoted fairly based on what I believe are my merits, and if men think I'm a shrill harpy or a ballcutting shrew, they don't say so. But online, my professional peers would rate pics of women they knew (including, once, me), conjure grotesque and absurd "cock carousel" fantasies about how we must secretly have conducted ourselves before marriage, and opine that our legal rights should be taken away. Again, this occurred on a spectrum with edgy jokes on one end, and genuine mentally ill rage on the other. At least one man from the forum was arrested IRL for a sex crime.

              When I got into what eventually became the alt right, the view that women were generally NPCs who ought to be treated as second class citizens became the prevailing one. There were benevolent versions of this (women don't belong outside the home, keep them pregnant, feminists are evil for burdening them with the option of economic independence; we should protect them by treating them as what they are, children) and malicious versions (like a blog which I won't link, but is discussed here.) The latter blogger -- the sadistic pedophile -- was an influential and ubiquitous presence in several NRx sites. He had smart and interesting things to say on topics including cryptocurrency, but his view of women is deeply demented and if I personally believe he has violently raped young girls. Less grave, but still blackpilling, were my interactions with dozens of men who parroted Roissy posts uncritically, as if this was some shining secret knowledge that explained the world instead of a sleazy, reductive polemic against women.

              In the meantime, IRL, incidents like Rotherham and Cologne were getting swept under the rug.

              I don't want to portray myself as traumatized by the Internet. I'm not -- in fact, I like the Internet. But I credit it for opening my eyes to misogyny as a real force that shapes cognitions and behavior. This, in turn, made me more interested in feminism, and I've come around to the view that 1980s-90s feminists made some valid points, especially about pornography. I used to view it as a coincidence that the young men I met online who hated and objectified women had also spent years immersed in online porn. After all, I'd been exposed to the same porn on the same sites and it didn't affect me. Sitting here today, I don't think the "coincidence" is so easily dismissed.

              *fixed link

              [–]King_Brutus 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

              Never thought I would say this but a feminist is actually making sense, and a lot of what you are saying I can get on board with. I think it's a fairly common thing to believe in equal treatment of women, and especially with the MRA point you've made I have also noticed that instead of focusing on betterment of Men it focuses on why women are trash and while there are valid criticisms to be made of women especially with later waves of feminism, it's not ultimately constructive or men focused.

              I honestly don't disagree with anything you say above, the problem nowadays comes from people who view feminism as explicitly "anti-men" which isn't unwarranted due to the prevailing voices instead of "pro woman" (which is a mirror reflection of the MRA problem). Thanks for the insightful comment.

              [–]ech[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Thanks, and it's nice to meet you. One tiny silver lining of the dystopian censorious world we are entering is that different marginalized speakers can sometimes find common ground. We all have a stake in free speech. Fifteen years ago, I never thought I'd find myself fighting side by side with far-right men. Now I am, and they're my friends.

              [–]King_Brutus 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              It's important to be able to find common ground, and censorship takes that ability away.

              [–]cfptwceje 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

              This will probably end 6ft under, but let me ask a sincere question:

              Could you please summarize the right-wing part of your right-wing feminism in 2-3 sentences, without references to personalities, social circles or media outlets you draw on?

              Asking as a lifelong "leftist" who finds it difficult to spot what I would describe as "rightist" positions in your intro, and getting increasingly tired that these designators seem to have lost any useful meaning.

              [–]ech[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

              Could you please summarize the right-wing part of your right-wing feminism in 2-3 sentences, without references to personalities, social circles or media outlets you draw on?

              It's hard to do this without reference to the above, but I'll try. I think civilization is hard to create and easy to destroy, and that seismic changes to the civilizational order should be approached with caution (vs. pursuing change for the sake of change). I think individuals should be judged on their merits as individuals, and that it's desirable to treat individuals fairly and equitably, but don't respect "justice" claims by groups. Moreover, there are obvious robust, and often innate, differences between human population groups which produce different life outcomes and at a massive scale, different societal outcomes. We should stop destroying our schools and emptying our coffers trying to ensure that kids of every color get the same SAT scores, because it's not going to happen. (And no, that doesn't justify abolishing the SAT). We should also recognize that mass immigration from the third world will make our societies more like the third world, which is bad. Traditional "family values" (discouraging extramarital sex, encouraging obedience to parents, encouraging loyalty to one's family and community) generated positive externalities so although those values can feel stifling to some, we should be cautious about tearing them down. I would rather live under quasi-fascism (Singapore) than quasi-communism (Venezuela), although ideally I prefer to live under classical liberalism, which is nowadays a conservative view. I truly hate our media and political elites for their hostility to ordinary people, especially ordinary white people.

              [–]cfptwceje 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Ok, this is clearer now — and thank you for your answer.

              (vs. pursuing change for the sake of change)

              This is probably the crux of the matter: that, and related positions of caution that you express, should be self-evident.

              I feel like the online discourse has been drowned by an army of low-effort adolescents, eager to wave the "progressive" flag and loudly sling shit for brownies and internet points. It feels like an endless mosh pit.

              This tinfoil-hat site could very well end up being a place to talk, in these ideologically confused times :D .

              The rest of your comment does have quite of a lot of what I would call "right-wing" ideas, which I quite deeply disagree with, so I guess that excuses the basic "left" and "right" designators. Maybe we'll debate them at some point, but freely and at ease.

              [–]ech[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              What's funny is I didn't start out with a right-wing disposition. For example, if you are familiar with Jonathan Haidt's work (which examines psychological underpinnings of different political orientations), my scores on his exams suggest I should be a libertarian. But I'm very bullshit-intolerant, and there's a lot of totalitarian bullshit being imposed by the "progressive" camp. I have beliefs about race and IQ that are supported by evidence and shouldn't objectively have any moral content -- they're simply empirical assertions of fact that are true, or they're false -- but have been hyperpoliticized.

              Current online discourse (especially Twitter, and especially bluecheck twitter) is toxic and has probably hurt democracy more than we can assess.

              [–]slushpilot 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

              You sound awesome. Welcome!

              [–]ech[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

              Thanks!

              [–]Sheli 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Even though I would actually describe myself as pretty far left, I do agree with everything you wrote. It's been unreal to see how bastardized women's issues have become in spaces all over the internet, whether it's at the hands of the ultra-woke trans lobby or garden variety MRAs. I'm a refugee from GenderCritical. Online, I follow a radical left (not to be confused with "woke" garbage leftism) ex-Muslim activist from the Middle East who frequently posts about the hypocrisies of Western liberalism and leftism - one very glaring example being the embrace of Islam and mythical women's empowerment in Islamic culture. I committed the sin of publicly agreeing with him on social media (as a White person..!) and got to experience the joys of cancellation by a pool of mostly White peers. Funny how feminists actually from Islamic countries are becoming so wary of Western liberal feminism. It's time for more feminists to wake up to the fact that identity politics dictate who can speak truth and who has to stay blind and dumb to obvious realities.

              [–]Taveing 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

              You guys sound awesome, and I'm glad you're continuing to speak out.

              [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

              that's like log cabin republicans. You can have a majority views that are right wing but then disagree with most right wingers on things like sex or gender. Well who said you have to agree on everything in lockstep.

              I'm leftwing on most issues like economics but I guess I'm right wing on things like social justice.

              [–]neovulcan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Glad to see a right-wing feminist. Up until now I'd counted you with the unicorns.

              The treatment of women in non-Western countries should be the number one issue of modern feminists, yet I rarely find one even bringing it up as an issue. Instead we hear about the wage gap (non-existent), or the right to kill the unborn, or how damaging certain words can be. If they'd just focus on countries where women are systemically oppressed, it'd be so much easier to take them seriously.

              [–]ech[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Abortion is a substantive issue and I don't blame feminists for caring about it. The zeal to celebrate abortions up until the moment of birth is unwise, though.

              [–]EVERYBODYPANIC 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

              Somehow, this thread devolved into heated JQ arguments. But arguments are pretty rare here. There's lots of room here for intelligent discussion on myriad topics. You will hopefully stay and play here. I am all over the web aggregator world, and this is probably the safest, sanest place. So welcome to Saidit. Lots of folks here smarter and more articulate than I am. Come meet them!

              [–]ech[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

              Thanks very much! I'm enjoying it here so far. And in a weird way I don't mind JQ acrimony around the edges, because it shows the place really is uncensored.

              [–]Sh--t 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Hell I used to be democratic but at this point the left has shifted so damn far I'm probably considered right wing lol. Welcome

              [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

              Right wingers want you dead you know..

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