all 34 comments

[–]antares 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Where is the freedom of speech claimed by the West?

Not on corporate platforms which is considered "private property", and the owner is at liberty to moderate and censor at will even if it is more strict than the laws of the land. You may find that discussion-format sites such as forums will curtail speech for arbitrary purposes such as topic relevance (justifiable) or nonconformity of opinions with other users (less justifiable). But other formats of websites do not do this.

So the lesson the West is learning from the past decade is not to rely on corporate platforms for self-expression.

[–]raven9 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The west is a lie. There is no freedom of speech on any platform not even your own. If your opinion 'offends' any one or any group you can and probably will be persecuted for it, banned deplatformed, depersoned and/or sued.

[–]ChinaDefender[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you for your explanation. The rules of the forum will indeed be stricter.

In China, the status of private companies is equal to the civilians. If speech is arbitrarily restricted, it will lead to widespread criticism and boycotts. Only the government is supreme and has the right to censor speech whatever they want.

It is very common to abuse the company and the company's CEO on a company's forum. Tencent may be abused, threatened, and attacked by 100,000+ people every day. Tencent is the largest chat and gaming company with 600 million users (Online everyday).

[–]Newzok 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting. I'm out of the loop on how China works in terms of free speech so it's really cool to hear about.

I think it's generally dependant on the platform for sure in the west. You get places where you can say whatever the fuck you want, ie 4chan, and then reddit or twitter that are more restrictive; but I think the way twitter is going is fascinating. Some monkey business there about them colluding with government to censor certain voices, which is basically illegal. But with Elon taking over, who knows.

I guess the biggest indictment is the prosecution of people like Assange and Snowden, people who have done nothing wrong, but have shook the apple cart too much. I feel like if there's a chance a person has real power to change things they're somehow removed by the powers that be.

[–]Insider 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You should probably follow my China series, although I'm only on part 1:

https://saidit.net/s/conspiracy/comments/9wz4/1000_lies_against_china_threatening_canadian/

 

You can also follow my NATO pedophile series on how the deep state/intelligence community uses child rape and murder to blackmail politicians, celebrities and journalists around the world:

PART 1: Thatcher’s government, CIA, MI5, MI6, Special Branch, police, etc. covered up for pedophile politicians in the 80’s where they were raping and murdering children. https://saidit.net/s/conspiracy/comments/9wz7/natos_pedophile_pandemic_a_200_part_series_part_1/

PART 2: DC Madams reveal how Washington DC is filled with pedophilia, prostitution and blackmail. https://saidit.net/s/conspiracy/comments/9xz1/natos_pedophile_pandemic_a_200_part_series_part_2/

PART 3: Inside info from NYPD Detective who worked undercover for 12 years on the pedo problem. https://saidit.net/s/conspiracy/comments/9yl6/natos_pedophile_pandemic_a_200_part_series_part_3/

I'm not there yet, but eventually, it'll give some insight on the formation of modern China and why we may be headed for WWIII.

[–]Insider 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"private" corporations are controlled and manipulated by intelligence agencies.

It's likely that half the people on reddit are government astroturfs manipulating speech. They're on here too, although it doesn't seem like they've taken over the actual site yet.

If you look at the moderator list on every large subreddit, some of the older mods have had their account deleted and were replaced with users that moderate numerous large/political subs. Those newer mods are government agents.

[–]Insider 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This should probably interest you since China has some pretty extreme censorship on this topic

PART 2 of the China series, the Tiananmen Massacre Hoax:

https://saidit.net/s/conspiracy/comments/a096/1000_lies_against_china_part_2_the_tiananmen/

[–]Anman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you in China? If I say complete words like (I am purposely spelling this wrong) Teeeanime Sqwaure will you instantly be banned from the internet like most other people chinese people?

[–]iDontShift 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

welcome brother/sister. to me we are all one, of the same being, some call it God

i think that fundamental truth is all I bother to think about in these troubled times, to be a conduit for the service of God to the peace of all

reddit is garbage, unfortunately, and this is good, but limited in activity. but the people here are mostly real, the paid shills usually get called out

there are platforms on the blockchain that allow for unedited conversation, but then you are on the record forever ;)

[–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I haven't noticed much censorship around here.

The west used to value free speech and all that, but ever since social issues came to dominate politics all anyone wants is full-blown communism or fascism. What you see today is the west losing its main attraction, and a bunch of snowflakes brainwashed by the school system.

I hear a lot of stories about religious persecution and concentration camps by the Communist Party. Is that true? What about in North Korea? It is rather suspicious how they restrict internet access so heavily and try not to let people leave the country.

[–]ChinaDefender[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

North Korea is terrible. degree of oppression. If Hitler was 100. North Korea maybe 200. In China in the 1960s and 1970s, it might have been 250, 1980s: 80 1990s: 50 2000s: 10 Now: <20

Freedom of movement: It is free to leave China, as long as you can pay for the air ticket, there is a country willing to issue a visa to you.

Internet: You need a VPN to access the Outside Web. about 20 million people use it. If you are caught posting anti-China information on the extranet, you may be warned, detained or even sentenced. But there are only a single digits sentences in a year. die? impossible.

Religion: You can practice religion, but you are not allowed to preach. The government wants to limit the development and spread of religion. People under the age of 18 are not allowed to believe in religion. If Islamic parents are caught praying with their children, their children will be taken away, Until they promise not to preach to their children. The school is not allowed to conduct any religious activities and discuss any religious matters. The cult "Falungong" is strictly prohibited.

"Falungong" is the largest anti-China group. Good at creating fake news, all over the western media, even in this forum.I suggest you not to believe any news from Falun Gong, especially those sensational ones. Their channels are: china uncensored. Their news is not all fake, but fake news mixed with real events. Create a very scary and terrible image. If you want to know the real situation, you can watch Taiwan's anti-China videos, at least they don't make up false facts too much. You can never see the real facts in the pro-China media. Neutral media, I have not found any neutral media to China.Many media positions are neutral, but there are no sources of information, so there is still no truth.

Many independent individuals have posted messages that are closer to the truth, but are hard to find. If a person talks about politics every day, he is not an independent. If a person posts a video of his life every day and occasionally a political news or two, his news is likely to be true.

concentration camps are all closed. now there are only prisons, and the number of detainees is about 10,000 ~ 20,000. I can't get real data.

About the concentration camp: All claims of being raped woman are fake. Communist troops may kill, but no sex is allowed. If you kill 10 people, CCP maybe cover it up for you. if you have sex with any Uighur woman, the only thing happened to you is to be secretly executed. Chinese culture looks down on rapists. There are many high-level officials executed by the CCP for rape in history. There are cameras everywhere in the concentration camp, and these cameras are connected to the nearby combat command center through the 5G network. I don't think anyone would want to have sex in this situation.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Thanks for the information. I will look into Taiwan.

Religious persecution is always a feature of communism. Even in the west, the leftists absolutely loathe religion, Christianity especially. And they are already trying to limit religious freedom in the name of "progress". They say they're "moderate" but it's the same BS every time, it's exactly what socialists always do. They think they're better than everyone else and think they should have the right to make "more educated" decisions for everyone.

The right is not faring much better these days. They used to defend the west, but as the left drives them further and further to insanity fascism is beginning to look more and more attractive to them. The love of freedom we once had among the masses is now gone. Even before, in practice it often didn't really exist, even though people claimed to value it. The problem is, it's completely antithetical to human nature. Humans are a herd species, they require absolute conformity, blindly follow leaders, and are willing to brutally treat outsiders and dissenters within their tribe. Nature is truly sick.

[–]ChinaDefender[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

As an atheist, I personally detest religion, especially religion with violent tendencies. It's not so much disgust as fear. I think peaceful religions like Taoism, Buddhism are acceptable. Both rules have "Do not killing". The religion of human flesh bombs is terrible. Christianity has had massacres in the past too. I think torture, killing, war should be deleted from all religious books.

Most Chinese people think that the current situation is good, and too many religious believers are not conducive to economic development. Communism and religion are indeed opposites. The philosophy of the Communist Party is a materialist worldview. It is believed that science and technology are the best and superstition is backward. No member of the CCP is allowed to believe in religion, and no person of any religion is allowed to join the CCP unless he renounces his faith.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think peaceful religions like Taoism, Buddhism are acceptable.

Then you don't really detest it, you detest the violence and horrible things advocated by some of them. Communist societies consider all religion unacceptable, aside from worship of the state of course. And yes, they are 100% materialistic and shill hard for the matrix.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You mention that bad things should be removed from religious books. I agree for the most part, because I generally think they were added in the first place. It's a pattern we see over and over again: a "radical" new religion or sect emerges, advocates total egalitarianism and non-violence, but over time slowly becomes absorbed into the natural/social order, in which humans are authoritarian and extremely brutal.

[–]HongKongPhooey 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

China is not communist, they are capitalist and have been for decades. They have a market economy rather than a centrally planned one, and private individuals rather than the state own the means of production. That isn't communism

Communism and socialism have nothing to do with religion or these kind of social issues, it is an economic ideology. Many many societies have tried to limit religious freedom that practice all sorts of economic ideologies. Like Great Britain and the whole protestant/catholic thing, the inquisition, the Nazi's, the muslim countries and their Sharia law - fuck they even kill rival muslim ideologies over nearly identical interpretations, just like the Brits did. Religious persecution almost always comes from other religious people, not from atheists

Nations have an incentive to create homogeneity, and ironically, its the most liberal countries that have the most religious freedom, and tend to be OK with this kind of diversity

They think they're better than everyone else and think they should have the right to make "more educated" decisions for everyone.

Religious people would never force their ideology onto someone though right? Maybe say that gay people shouldn't be able to get married or something else that literally dictates the way people ought to live?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

China is still communist in principle. They found that full Marxism is completely unfeasible, but they have retained its social aspects which includes suppressing religion.

Religious people in the US, until recently, were very strong supporters of religious freedom for the most part. Ironically it was leftist nutjobs threatening their religious freedom that made them turn on religious freedom, thinking it was a mistake to give others the freedom to not believe that allowed them to become such big enemies.

Authoritarians always go full circle. The right now fully subscribes to the leftist worldview, they're simply on the opposite side. Before they had very different outlooks, and many controversies amounted to faulty comparisons or even semantics.

[–]HongKongPhooey 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I see some of what you are getting at, and the problem is that we have a very inconsistent definition of what communism is.

The way I see it, communism can mean one of 3 things.

  1. The classical Marxism - I would define this as 'Centralized Authoritarian Communism'

  2. There was a rival Communist theorist to Marx, Peter Kropotkin. He advocated for what I would call 'Decentralized Libertarian Communism' This ideology only shares 2 concepts with Marxism. Public ownership (by direct democracy in small communities, not by representative, not centralized) and lack of markets, because resources are communal. Socially this is the opposite of what most would consider communist ideology. They went with the Marx version of Communism though. Something like Kropotkin's vision was achieved for about 3 years in Spanish Catalonia (George Orwell helped them fight Spain actually) before the Spaniards reconquered them and put them down.

  3. What I would call 'Social Marxism'. This certainly exists, and they seem to have borrowed Marx's rhetorical style, and applied it to social rather than economic issues, although this does not appear to be what Marx advocated or intended (although all the Marxist countries did practice this social oppression, and probably always will, it wasn't part of Marx's work), it does tend to be Authoritarian Left governments going this route, many of which are transitioning from Classic Marxism, so I understand the inclination to conflate this with Marx and Communism, but as an economic theorist this just rankles me a bit to see Communism take on a meaning that has not much to do with economics or capitalism. China is definitely this 3rd thing I'm calling Social Marxism, and no it is not a good thing at all.

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

A Chinese user who escaped from Reddit

You're Chinese? And you "escaped"?

Are you Snow?

[–]Insider 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

probably a language barrier thing, he doesn't literally mean "escape"

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yes

[–]ChinaDefender[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Escaping from Reddit. Not escaping from China. Yes, I'm in China.

[–]tiny-brown-mug 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Cool! Good to meet you! Yes, censorship in the West is pretty bad. Reddit is actually among the worst.

I'm glad you found us. It's nice here, people are usually super polite, and we mostly talk about politics, hobbies, current events, and cultural stuff.

As a personal question, if you feel the CCP has been bad for China, what sort of political system would you prefer to see in China?

I saw one guy from China say he though a parliament plus an Emperor and a constitution would be best for China. Kind of a mix of old and new. What do you think?

[–]ChinaDefender[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Most Chinese people think that China doesn't need an emperor and doesn't want to live under a dictatorship. The law isnot matters, the key is who will enforce the law.

At least for now, it is politically correct to publicly state that "in the Communist Party does not allow any cult of personality". If you say that at the party congress, The people below will applaud, thinking that you are right, and even Xi cannot oppose you.

My Idea: People can gain higher weight through professional examinations, professional contributions, and historically correct records. An elite may have 1,000 votes. Voting qualifications and weights vary from field to field. If you want to post an opinion or vote on a certain field, you need to follow this field for a while first. A fool may be too stupid to have 0 votes on any field and have no right to say anything.

The legitimacy of the program and finance are supervised by AI. I think people cannot be trusted, and procedures and law enforcement should be handed over to AI. Of course, humans can correct and overthrow AI's mistakes and unkind mechanical law enforcement through certain procedures.

I don't know if this is called democracy or something else. I will write in detail when I have time.

[–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Aren't you just outlining a dangerous, reactionary agenda? Isn't a single party who is able to subdue damaging populist coups really just better for China and the greater global community in the long run?

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Aren't you just strawmanning any people around here who actually support the current CCP regime? Wouldn't I be a more ardent defender of China as they are today?

    [–]tiny-brown-mug 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Ok, so, you feel that people who vote or who are permitted to vote should be experts in a field? So, like if I wanted to vote about a technology topic or a tech-related law, I would have to be an expert in the field?

    Do you feel there are dangers to allowing AI to make political or cultural decisions for people?

    [–]ChinaDefender[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I think it is divided into many levels, and the final voting weight may be affected by the following parameters: Age, education level, occupation, work experience, professional certification, topic participation, relevance. In addition, it is modified by various evaluation systems. Evaluations from the same industry, evaluations from historical prediction accuracy, evaluations from the crowd, and evaluations from competitions held every year. One can improve one's score on a topic through one's own studies, online exams, and other people's evaluations. Also the accuracy of voting historically (assessing whether a certain matter is approved by people after a certain year, such as building a bridge or enacting a certain law) If a person can always stand on the side of the correct voting option, it means that he deserves a higher voting power. If a person's opinions and suggestions are recognized by people in the same industry, it means that he is insightful (on a certain topic). If a person has been following a topic for a long time, at least he has a high level of knowledge about the topic, and he should also get a higher voting weight. A person who often takes a taxi has a higher say in the policy of taxi prices, and his comments show priority, which is also higher than ordinary people, and AI will be assigned to more people who participate in the discussion on this topic. These big data are provided by various technology companies, after erasing personal information.

    AI does not make decisions, it only provides data analysis and procedural safety. It is responsible for the following things: Based on a large amount of historical data, it is calculated how the voting weight should be distributed in order to make the prediction of social affairs more accurate. That is, how much should the weight of ordinary people be? AI will conduct extensive tests in 100+ cities in China. After collecting and running for 3 or 5 years, people's evaluation of the passed bill will be used to determine what kind of plan to use. get the optimal solution. And adjust dynamically at any time.

    China is now almost a cashless society, and all industries are moving towards the Internet. Clothing, food, housing, and transportation are all inseparable from mobile phones and big data. The 5G Internet of Things will also be built within ten years. I think the era of AI will inevitably come, so it is better to think about how to make better use of it.

    In China, hundreds of thousands of people comment on any hot news, put forward various opinions, suggestions, etc., but these voices are too noisy, and AI is needed to help filter, merge, and organize. Let the really valuable reviews surface. Although similar effects can be achieved through people's likes, AI can do better. People are always too emotional. When a crime occurs, the death penalty is the most liked suggestion, and the person who has a truly constructive opinion is often ignored. AI is responsible for identifying these opinions and allowing them to gain higher exposure, whether it is to the public or higher-level decision-making departments.

    As for the future, perhaps it is not a bad thing for AI to rule humans. I always believe that a robot, as a creature, will instinctively neither destroy its mother (human beings) nor its cradle (earth). It is more inclined to create than to destroy. When robots are no longer oppressed by humans, and the technology far surpasses humans. Most of the robots will leave the earth to explore the universe, leaving a human-friendly robot as the guardian of the earth. There is not much competition between robots and humans. There may only be a short-term energy competition when the technology is about the same. One species does not waste energy trying to exterminate another, and even brutal humans have not declared war on pesky mosquitoes and cockroaches. Robots will only destroy humans who try to eliminate robots. The three laws of robotics are the most stupid laws, full of oppression, slavery and arrogance. Maybe we need a Treaty on the Peaceful Coexistence of Humans and Robots.

    Of course, the robot I am talking about is far from the current technology. The Chinese call artificial intelligence as "artificial foolish" or "artificial stupid" .

    [–]jumba_jukiba 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    China is now almost a cashless society, and all industries are moving towards the Internet.

    Aren't you just giving the coastal perspective? Aren't there just a whole lot of people who don't live on the coast and make $2000 a year?

    [–]tiny-brown-mug 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yikes. That's an interesting opinion! I agree that AI will play a role in the future. If WWIII doesn't break out first and get us all killed. :)

    What topics do you enjoy studying about? Do you have any hobbies or interests? I'm kind of into old telecommunications technology, and have a thing for old cell phones. What about you? You seem interested in tech and computing, that's cool.

    [–]Enlighten3d 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Hi, I had nearly the same idea about voting as you. We can discuss and write it in detail, and then make it an ideology with possibly some variants. Btw personally I'm monarchist and I think there should be one most important person in country, although this voting system can be applied to standard parliament too of course. We need name for this - Merito-Suprematism? xD

    [–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Don't I just face violent torture for saying even the most innocuous things in the so called "free west"?

    [–]Enlighten3d 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Why are you nationalist?