all 12 comments

[–]SeasideLimbs 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One possible explanation for this difference is that, at their core, the two movements have entirely different goals:

For lesbian woman, gay men and bi people, it was always about being allowed to have relationships and sex without being assaulted, imprisoned or even murdered. It was about being allowed to do something that largely occurred in the private realm without it being dragged into the public realm by others who then seek to punish through violence, harassment, loss of one's job or of one's home. It sought a small minority of intensely homophobic people to stop actively harming LGB people. From the majority, it didn't ask much other than basic respect. Gays, lesbians and bi people weren't asking the straight majority to cheer on public gay sex or something to that effect.

The trans ideology is the opposite. It seeks for everyone - literally everyone - to actively participate in behaviours they wouldn't normally do (such as calling someone who looks obviously like a man "she.") They themselves make what happens in their private lives a public matter, by arguing that behaviour that in no way affects them actually does affect them, through nebulous arguments like "misgendering kills trans people."

[–]Hard_headed_woman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I always think of the two movements as

1) LGB people want to live their lives exactly as they are, and to be accepted legally in society including the right to marry.

2) TRAs want to force society to validate them exactly as they aren't, and we are demanded under penalty to play along with their delusions. They are demanding that women give up some of their legal protections to include male bodies in women's spaces, sports, scholarship lists, awards, etc.

(I am happy to use the term transwomen and use the corresponding pronouns, but your trans rights should end when you infringe on women's rights.)

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

We just have different goals with them.

We want to be like everyone else, so no one notices us or does any harm to us, so we be like any other people, and silently live our happy lives in society, not asking to change anything.

They want to be special, they wan't other people change their views and sexuality for them, they want others change their language, they want laws to specify them and override others rights with their, and demand, demand, demand. Old transsexuals I know had same goals as we - just live silently like everyone else, thought.

[–]les4leshomonormative 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One of the more irritating tenets of transactivism/"queer" activism is its response to old-school gay activism as homonormativity ie. they looked at gay men and women who were sick of persecution and wanted to be allowed to live their lives as normally as possible and said "but WE want to be treated DIFFERENTLY because we're special and queer" and then built their personalities up around their superqueer microidentities. I do think this is because of social media and internet activism these days though, to answer your question somewhat (sorry, this is more of a rant than a response.)

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My impression is that while their were diverse interest groups, gay rights was being led largely by gay, lesbian, and bisexual people who wanted to be seen as and treated as normal and would otherwise blend into society. The activism that won us our rights was drawing comparisons between us and heterosexuals to show that we were not that different. The rights that gay activists sought were access to the same rights heterosexual couples had or were about forebearance like not being kicked out of the military. Gay rights activists did not demand that anyone else change anything about themselves, call themselves anything different, or change their lifestyle. The movement was about tolerance more than approval. I think earlier transsexual rights activism was more like this too. It wasn't about denying biological sex or being unable to hear it without immediately suiciding.

Arty Morty did a video on this:

[–]jiljol 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The core difference that separates transgender activism from every other civil rights struggle (racial justice, women's rights, gay rights, etc) is the fact that it is centered around compelled behavior. Every civil rights movement has positioned itself as a fight for basic accommodations and equal status under the law. Transgender activism goes way beyond this, clamoring for a complete and total upheaval of the way human beings perceive reality. This is perfectly illustrated by their demands to codify "misgendering" into the law.

Do women freak out and call the police/lawmakers/social media if they are "missexed"/"misgendered"? No, even though there are millions of women who pass as men.

Do black people freak out and call the police/lawmakers/social media if they are "misracialized"? No, even though there are millions of mixed people who pass as white.

Do gay people freak out and call the police/lawmakers/social media if they are "missexualorientationed"? No, even though there are millions of gay people who pass as straight.

Transgender activism is a struggle against perceptions. They want people to completely ignore what they are seeing with their very own eyes in favor of a collective delusion.

[–]luckystar 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

-Medicalization (no hormones, surgery, or therapy needed for LGB).

-Trying to become another rather than defining oneself as different (LGB didn't campaign to be considered straight but rather to have LGB have equal rights as straight ppl; TWAW and TMAM by definition is redefining two other marginalized groups: women and LGB, by claiming to be the same as members of them)

[–]KCStuffedAnimal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Medicalization of identity, yes. Another difference is the closet. We wanted to come out! Transfolk, by and large, seem to want to go into the closet. They want to forget that they're transgender and dammit, they want everyone else to forget, too. Recognition of difference between biological sex and sex determined by gender identity? Das ist verboten!!! Society is supposed to help them keep their closet doors shut. And I might add, Trans concepts of what it means to be a man or a woman seem wedded to the worst gender stereotypes. We fought against that. LGB folk tried to expand the range of appropriate ways to express one's gender. Now you can't be a nelly guy or a butch lady without some jackass wanting to label you "genderqueer" or "non-binary".

[–]notdelusionalbased faggot[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Nelly! I haven't heard that in ages!

[–]KCStuffedAnimal 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I'm an old fart. I've got a lot of vintage words like that stored in my pillbox.

[–]Silverdarling 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the main one for me is that the gay rights movement was a genuine grassroots movement, led by ordinary people who were genuinely brave in making a stand and risking threats, violence and social ostracism to push society forward. It was another non-violent civil rights movement to make Western democracies fairer societies to live in, and that notion of fairness and equality was something everyone (including conservatives and straight people) could respect and aspire to.

The 'transgender' movement is not respectful or democratic and doesn't seek the consent of the society it operates within. It seeks to bully, harass and bludgeon anyone that opposes it and because it has the backing of powerful vested interests it can do so by public shaming or economic punishment. It is not a grassroots movement - it has been suddenly surgically implanted as an idea internationally at the same time by co-ordinated lobby groups who have already co-opted national governmental infrastructures with shady laws (which are still largely unknown to the man on the street). It is an elite faction foisting a full frontal assault on the existing rights of others by non-democratic, immoral and corrupt means. It is autocratic and degrades everything it touches (eg. medical ethics, scientific rationalism, history, biology, linguistics etc).

It's also interesting to compare the 'spiritus mundi' of the gay rights heyday to that of today. The gay rights progressivism I would think is related to the post WW2 vision of building a better society (and maybe the Cold War need to show that Western democracies were free and fair and superior to communism?). It was successful partly due to the optimism and positivity of the young people of that time to make that progress happen, and the fact that everyone back then believed in Western democracy. The 'transgender' movement made its sudden big gains after the economic crisis of 2008, when ordinary people across the West were becoming more scared, angry and disgusted with their political class. It's fundamentally motivated by anger and alienation - rather than hope - and possesses a post-modern nihilism that is arrogant and domineering.

Young people today in the West are being economically squeezed like never before (by a political class they largely didn't vote for) and their ensuing rage and desire to punish others is being co-opted by bigtech perverts and corporate kleptocrats to maintain their control of the system. At heart, I think a large part of the youth of today want to wage a war on the Western democracies that they think have hurt them, failed them, and stolen their future. These young folk want to destroy all that remains of that failed Western tradition for the 'greater good', and elites hope that these people will be placated by unisex toilets, pronoun policing, and witch burning JK Rowling on twitter.

We all need a revolution but what we'll get is more anti-women, anti-gay and anti-intellectual persecution while the mob burns down our libraries.

[–]GaiusHelenMohiam 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Gay agenda: we are not perverts.

Queer agenda: pervertry is good.