Why Do You Want To "Drop The T"?

CJLez · 2020-08-11T10:40:45+00:00

I'm sick of being told that being a lesbian means I'm a 'feminine presenting person exclusively sexually attracted to feminine presenting people'. I'm butch and I'm mostly attracted to butch women. By their logic I guess this means that I'm actually a gay man on the inside.

I'm sick of being told that, in the UK, life is as bad for trans people now as it was for LGB people in 80s.

I'm sick of our historical lesbian and/or GNC women being erased from history like they tried to do with Anne Lister's Plaque.

Most of all I'm sick of homophobic parents being given a way to 'cure' their childs homosexuality and being applauded by the media and public for doing so.

ABlueSkilttle · 2020-08-11T01:02:02+00:00

A lot of reasons. It's inherently homophobic. By rejecting sex as real, they reject sexuality as real. Worse, they demand others believe as they do "or else". You use their pronouns "or else". You find them attractive "or else". It's a subversive, and coercive, creepy mental delusion which we treat by feeding instead of rejecting. Find me a psychologist who treats phantom limb syndrome by convincing you that limb is still real and I'll find you someone who will be sued for malpractice. Same for cutting off limbs for alien limb syndrome. Mental disorders have no place, at all, in sexuality.

haveanicedaytoo · 2020-08-11T01:45:41+00:00

A very extremely simple reason:

LGB : sexual orientation

TQ : gender stuff

We have nothing in common.

People who are TQ but are also LGB are still part of the LGB, but they need to remember where they are and stay relevant to the topic of LGB and not make it all about TQ. Being a part of a community means literally being A PART of it, not forcing your way into becoming the whole damned thing. That means not screaming and crying every time someone doesn't include you in every damned thing. When Lesbians and Bisexuals talk about vaginas, you don't see Gay men rushing in going "But what about my penis???" Certain Trans people literally do this. And it's time for them and their penises to GTFO.

MezozoicGay · 2020-08-11T07:01:05+00:00

First of all - our problems are very different problems, so we don't have anything in common to stand for.

Second - this new gender ideology is very homophobic on its nature.

Third - it affects kids, especially young gay boys and lesbian teens, ruining their lifes forever.

Fourth - it throws back all our effort on normalizing "non-conforming" gender neutral or "wrong gender" cloths. It has to do with feminism more than with LGB issues, but it has to do with LGB as well. Women were able to wear any "men" cloths, and men were slowly getting there as well (previously here people will call you gay or attack if you wear red or pink shirt, nowadays it is normal). And gender ideology is returning back stereotypes, that "some stuff is inherently men stuff and some stuff is inherently women stuff", which is not true at all. By that definition any LGB person is transgender, as liking "wrong sex" is already non-conforming to gender stereotype.

ThiccDropkick · 2020-08-11T01:55:29+00:00

I think a lot of the community's problems stemmed from TQ+. Hundreds of genders, the idea that it's all about how you feel and you become a whole different gender if you feel masculine/feminine one day. The oppression olympics and people's opinions somehow holding more weight if they're judged to have it worse off than others in some obscure and abstract way.

I believe you're either homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual. And either male or female. If presenting and being perceived as the other sex is the only way you can alleviate a severe gender dysphoria, then that's fine. I'll respect people's pronouns. But you're still biologically the sex you were born as and that will never change.

My problems with the trans community begins with them regularly competing for virtuousness and attemptint to drive the narrative further and further. First it was there aren't as many differences between males and females as you think. Then that became there are no differences at all - which of course becomes we were trained by society to like a certain set of genitals and people who only like one are superficial 'genital fetishists'. And finally - being a man or woman is completely in someone's head. Body parts make no difference. If you only like guys with dicks then you're just obsessed with them and can't see past sex

The community has become too toxic and needs to be brought back down to earth. I don't want them to bring down any other groups which is why I think they need to be seen as their own separate thing.

turtleduck23 · 2020-08-11T04:48:43+00:00

I didn't hear much about the T's and then I remember the big fuss over Michelle Dugger (19 kids and counting) made a comment that if the bathroom bill was passed men would put on dresses to spy on women and girls and i thought that was ridiculous. Then a year later I came across at least three news stories about men going into women's bathroom, one attempting to sexually assault a woman. All three claimed to be trans. Not long later, transwomen on twitter began posting themselves in womens stalls masturbating. TRA's defended this by claiming "cis" women masturbated in bathrooms too. Then came the attack on Lesbians and my introduction to "lady penis" and of course the term "terf". Then the "wax my balls guy" and rape centers being forced to accept men so long they say their women.

I am all for actual gender dysphoria people having rights and protections, but claiming sex is something doctors assign to babies, erasing what it means to be a woman and deeming it wrong and transphobic to only be same sex attracted is just too much. Gays and Lesbians never told straights that not sleeping with us made them homophobic. We never denied biology. We weren't trying to convince parents to put their kids on hormones. We weren't forcing labels like "cis" onto people or using derogatory language to describe women i.e "period havers" "cervix havers" "bleeders" "front holes". Keeping the T is going to end up destroying everything the gay community worked for. For many countries we had finally reached an age where acceptance for us was at an all time high and now it's dropping among youth and keeping with the T is just going to bring it lower as people start to get sick of the trans demands and constant validation.

BiHorror · 2020-08-11T16:43:48+00:00

The T needs to be dropped from LGB because:

LGB is sexual orientation, and TQ+ is "gender identity" (mental illness which definitely doesn't need to be associated with us. Not after homosexuality got dropped from DSM rightfully so)
They're trying to redefine sexuality
They're attacking anyone who disagrees with them (especially lesbians and other women, be it LGB or not, in general)
They're overshadowing LGB's issues
They shouldn't have even been attached to LGB in the 1st place, especially when they're actively trying to rewrite history

OPPRESSED_REPTILIAN · 2020-08-11T07:11:09+00:00

I've thought it over for a while, and, I actually want to dismantle the entire LGBT. No LGBT. No LGBTQ+. No LGB either.

Why? Well, let me explain. First of all - "solidarity" and sense of some welcoming community is a lie. No matter whether you mean a sense of community between homosexuals and transgender people, homosexuals and bisexuals, gay men and lesbians, or even gay men with other gay men - there simply is no universal community. Homosexuality is not this grandiose, complex experience. It doesn't affect people's personalities - it doesn't give people something shared in common other than "the same sex arouses me." There's a reason why straight people don't really have a "straight community" and don't bond over their mutual straightness. (And no, that's not what straight relationships are. Nor is that what the "default" is. It's not comparable.)

I also don't believe there's anything positive about gay stereotypes, or the things people do sometimes bond over in LGBT groups. Overdramatic fashion, weird memes I still don't get, "twitter stans"... yeah, what does this have to do with orientation, exactly? A lot of people who emphasize the "community" also seem to glorify and encourage the very stereotypes that have been used against me - ie, gay and/or feminine males are weak, stupid, and obnoxious, liking "woman's things" makes you gay, liking certain music makes you gay, being emotional makes you gay... the list goes on. So it kinda stings to see people back this up and, in my opinion, undo the small amount of progress some places have made since I was a kid. We went from "haha girly = gay!" to "Boys can like 'girly' things no matter if they're gay or straight" right back to "Boys liking girly things = gay or secretly a woman inside" in a matter of 10 years or so. There was a brief window of acceptance, then it vanished when trans and flamboyant gayness became trendy.

I've spent way too much time and energy trying to get other gay males, lesbians, and bisexual people to respect me and include me as "one of them" in their little clubs, solely because I've always felt out of place in the world and I've always wanted to "belong" somewhere. But as I've got older I've realized that it really doesn't matter. I don't - I shouldn't NEED their approval or their sense of community, and honestly, if the only thing to bond over is something as mundane as sexual orientation... well, it's probably not an interesting community to begin with.

I'm also growing increasingly resentful as an intersex person. Transgender ideology harms intersex people. "Gay culture" and stereotypes hurts intersex people. Guys like me are born more feminine because of genetic conditions beyond our control - it's not a conscious choice nor is it related to sexuality (Intersex males are NOT more likely to be gay, regardless of their hormone levels) and all that shit about "femboys" and "twinks" being super submissive gay bottoms can fuck right off. And/or the subset of gay males who are all about masculinity and aggressively reject anything else.

And perhaps the most important part of all (aka, if you skipped the rest of the post, READ THIS PART) - not everywhere is America. Not all "LGB experiences" are universal. Things are different depending on your background, where you are in the world, how you were raised, your culture, your own beliefs, your own experience growing up... it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a unified community due to this alone. I have a very different experience being born Russian and having an atypical childhood. The LGBT and LGB - as very Western concepts - do not give a fuck, and do not emphasize. The most they'll ever give is a condescending comment about the fake stories of Russia killing gay people randomly and saying vaguely xenophobic stuff like "oh, I hope you one day leave your awful country!"

This is something I just have to accept, just as Americans seem to understand they can't just walk into Russia half-clothed in a rainbow parade and expect the locals to be happy about it. Xenophobia is huge right now, even in it's mildest forms - and even if I wasn't Russian I'd probably find another way to be excluded.

But, like I said, a community that tries to find so many little things to kick you out over is not one worth being a part of anyway.

For the record, I couldn't care less if existing L/G/B people wanna go around making their own little communities. They're welcome to. But I really ask that people reconsider this notion of there being a universal, unified, everyone-is-included LGBT or LGB community. Because that is not true. Frankly, no, I really don't have much in common with the average gay man. Unfortunately my experience with sexuality is not even inherently positive which alienates me from most homosexuals anyway, it seems. I get called homophobic even for saying that I'm not happy and would gladly choose to be straight if I could, even though I never hate on anyone else or force others to do things my way.

So, to be blunt - if the LGBT and LGB don't want me around, then fine. I won't be part of it. I'll do things my own way, live my own life, and won't make my orientation (which I don't particularly like) my defining feature, or even just one of my defining features. Knowing both the T-inclusive and not-T-inclusive communities, though, they'll find a way to criticize me for not participating too. It's always the way.

But fuck it. I have got to stop relying on other people's approval, especially for trivial mostly-internet shit that really doesn't matter.

ArthnoldManacatsaman · 2020-08-11T11:22:30+00:00

Like everyone else here, several reasons, which I shall list now because I'm procrastinating while working:

Chiefly, I am very sceptical of the entirety of critical theories, be they about race, gender, sexuality, etc. While not educated in philosophy, I believe that there is such a thing as objective truth, and subjectivity, 'lived experience' or superstitions should not be regarded as equally valid as objective, measurable, falsifiable fact. We should be careful not to tell people their feelings are wrong, but we should not allow their feelings to dictate reality, however politically convenient those feelings might be. If you believe the sperm of more than one man contributes to the developing embryo then you are free to believe such things. You are not free, however, to ask or demand that others disregard their knowledge of objective facts to validate you. 'Science doesn't know everything', but the beautiful thing about science is, like Socrates, it knows it doesn't know everything. If it knew everything, it would stop.
The ideologues are unwilling to accept that gender dysphoria as a serious psychiatric problem that requires careful management and treatment, not affirmation and celebration. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, and it must be psychologically very painful to feel like you're in the wrong body, in the same way it must be psychologically very painful to believe that you are grossly overweight, or very painful to have people you can't see constantly tell you you're worthless. In no other context do we collude in psychiatric illness in this manner. We do not tell anorexic patients that a strict programme of diet and exercise will help them feel better. We do not tell schizophrenic patients that maybe the voices are right, maybe they just are trash and should kill themselves. This is very dangerous territory, especially when it comes to children. An adult can lop off his penis or pump a frankly heroic amount of silicon into her bottom because, we hope, they have given their informed consent. I doubt a 16-year-old girl can give informed consent about life-altering surgery, much less a much younger child.
On the note of children, we know that the trans ideologues are doing irreversible damage to children, and as LGB people we particularly need to distance ourselves from this aspect. How many gay men have been put off careers in teaching because of ridiculous fears over paedophilia? Certain segments of society are still very sceptical of homosexuality and how it 'interacts' with children and I think if the tide ever turns against this trans nonsense, people will use that to point to figure and accuse all of us of deviancy and endangering the lives of children.
The ideology reinforces harmful gender stereotypes. These stereotypes tell us that real men like football, the colour blue, don't have emotions, and are aggressive and competitive. Real women like cooking, the colour pink, have perhaps too many emotions, and are docile and submissive. Anybody who falls outside these narrow behavioural definitions isn't 'a real [man / woman]' and should change their behaviour until it aligns with the 'ideal' of their sex. Trans Ideologues have passed through the looking glass and argue that men who don't like football, or men who cry, or women who don't wear makeup should change their sex until it aligns with the 'ideal' that their behaviour says it must.
It's just so aggressive nowadays. It's a truly horrible thing to say, but in a way I look forward to when actual violence is used in support of these ridiculous views, because that will, I hope, be the beginning of the end for this nonsense.

reluctant_commenter · 2020-08-12T08:43:42+00:00

THIS is why.

Homophobia.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Sgz9aR2BxPH4JgqA7

https://lesbian-rights-nz.org/shame-receipts/

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOwetuUmIgGwmTmu9rcxDdWeOMbKpckEyvqpT49pz2yemZYS3rNYqH16pZc5IuLcQ?fbclid=IwAR1fy1NEsXmMrkiGvgbFy-vXhiMaL2g6ahSl4hPKR3PKAy6QfuIA8qhpLPo&key=VVlEX21sNXAzVEprMGZmWmNqd3RPc1RiN095STdn

https://terfisaslur.com/

Modern transgender ideology is a belief system filled with inconsistencies.

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transparadoxes-self-contradictions-of-the-gender-identity-movement/

I have a lot of sympathy for transsexuals and transgender people who are harmed by the crap that mainstream transgender activists pull. But at this point, the "T" is not for transsexuals, it's for a group of homophobic bigots trying to use the word "transgender" as a political statement.

(Sort of how "lesbian" was once used as a political statement. And that didn't last, either.)

nbailey73 · 2020-08-19T15:11:40+00:00

Every “gay space” I try to go to is becoming swarmed by the transgender community. Time and time again, i find myself defending the gay community because I see normal gay men as a dying species that are quickly becoming erased by trans ideology.

ohmy420 · 2020-08-28T01:00:44+00:00

I am tired of gay spaces and causes being co-opted by trans causes. We have very different experiences and goals.

KCStuffedAnimal · 2020-08-13T00:53:37+00:00

This doesn't answer the question, but it's very much related: LGB Alliance, the UK group that many LGBDropTheT followers know about, is interested in starting a US-based branch. If you're interested in this, too, tweet them @ALLIANCELGB. Maybe this proposed branch organization can provide the direction, inspiration and messaging that most of us are looking for; and the mission statement of LGB Alliance contains most of the valid reasons for "dropping the T".

GayNotQueer · 2020-08-29T17:42:01+00:00

Because they're too heavy a burden to carry and their burdens to bear are not ours to bear nor are we responsible for them, just as they are not responsible to us (as they demonstrate so brutally clearly).

So let's drop that load.

GeorgeEliot · 2020-09-05T23:56:21+00:00

I’m new here & this is my first post. I haven’t said anything online about Ts for years because of censorship! It’s crazy that they can label our community as “queer” even though it’s a slur!! They are very powerful. T is for Trojan Horse — they are wiping out homosexuals from within. Our celebration after getting gay marriage passed sure did not last long. TQ is a horrible backlash against gays & lesbians! They burn our flags, call us as queer & cis against our wills, assault us, & even kill us a la Dana Rivers! They’ve taken over all of our organizations from HRC, GLAAD, NCLR to even the ACLU! It’s a homophobic & misogynistic cult. They will not stand the test of time because they are based on a lie — it’s impossible to change sex! Gender exists only in our imaginations! Straight men will never experience a lesbian identity because they will never be lesbians! They have no clue. I hope people wake up from this madness within my lifetime.

CaptainMoose · 2020-09-22T11:13:18+00:00

I'm sick of gay men getting brow beaten for wanting transwomen who engage in physical violence to be removed from our bars. I'm sick of these same transwomen calling us faggots for wanting to use our bars to network with each other and find potential relationships instead of paying attention to them. I'm sick of every third gay man I meet having some sort of non-binary gender identity just because he is gender non-conforming.

I'm sick of the fact that queer theory is constantly peddled when talking about anything related to LGB people in academic fields. I'm sick of the fact that LGB people having diverse opinions is not taught so LGB students can resonate with the words of our elders instead of the mindless post-modern fuckery of a pedo apologist from the 80s.

I'm sick of the fact that same-sex marriage is thought to be our last hurdle for LGB people to focus on when there are other issues our populations have to deal with such as LGB youth homelessness, reducing the infection rates of HIV/AIDS & other STIs, our high levels of smoking compared to straight populations, and other health issues that we have. There are more important, and more tangible, things we need to deal with than fucking pronouns.

SedateApe · 2020-12-28T22:10:03+00:00

I think the term "separate from the T" would be more attractive to the.... sensitive, yet uneducated, "gay allies" out there.

Since 2005, about the time the TQ+WTF crowd pushed hard into the lime light, they have used the LGB community as their umbrella of safety. This umbrellas of protection, along with line "we're all in the same boat" also allowed the TRA to gain momentum. It's also about the time they self-included themselves into positions within gay charities and political organizations. Charities and organizations they now dominate. Something the LGB allowed to happen. We let our guard down and now we're paying the price.

Why should we "separate from the T"? For the reasons already mentioned...that same-sex attraction had nothing in common with gender identity. But the serious reason is....they don't want us to be part of "it" any longer. At least the young and excitable ones don't.

Ever notice how a discussion about "throwing the gays out" gets squashed just about the time all the villagers normally reach for their pitchforks and touches? The leadership/sub mods strangle it with the discussion with its own birth cord! They know the TRA agenda does not stand a chance of succeeding if the LGB and the TQ+WTF go two different directions.

When they pushed for bathroom choice....it was because the LGBtq+ community wanted it. Anyone here actually back that bathroom choice issue?

How about trans women competing in women's sports? Why is this being allowed to happen? Because the LGBtq+ people want it so badly. I don't remember saying this would be a good thing.

Without the LGB the TQ+ are just that 0.6%. And break it down to its basics and it's only the 0.03% and those from the 0.3% of the alphabet soup that follow the TRA also that are backing this shit.

The 95.4% that are the heterosexual population believe that we, the 4.0% that are the LGB actually support these social changes.

I'm going to say that THIS is reason enough! So the heterosexual world gets to find out who, and how many, are actually pushing child transistionings, surgical alterations before the age of 18, and the placing if one small group above and higher then any other group. In the US everyone strives to be equal. No one and no group better than any other. This is not what the TRA has in mind. They want to be placed in a pedestal.

The only real reason for a separation...so we don't get blamed!

SeahorseLT · 2020-09-20T20:10:06+00:00

I have had people outright ask me whether I was non-binary or genderfluid because of the way I dress. Hell nah, I'm a lesbian (it has always been part of lesbian culture to have all kinds of ways to express yourself as a woman!!) and I've always liked to wear stuff that I feel comfortable in, and sometimes that's more of this and sometimes more of that. And I'm okay with that because I know that underneath my clothes I'm always gonna be me.

Being a lesbian is a huge part of my story, my journey to accepting myself with this body - a female body - and what it can do, so why on earth should I try and deny that lesbian just means homosexual woman and base my self-worth on clothes, make-up and some other outwardly signs of "gender" and "femininity" to fit within their definition and pretend that this changes the immutable foundations of my being?

And I hate that I am being told that this must mean I am somehow something else than that which I am. And that I am wrong if I am like that - that it means I am something they know better about me and make me want to adopt. I've been attracted to butch women, I've been attracted to femmes. I've been attracted to all kinds of women because I like women. That's it. It doesn't mean that I am fluid and one day, am a man and the other more this or that. It just means that I am myself and like other women. That's literally it.

_Moon_ · 2021-01-02T10:59:43+00:00

Transgenderism is a reactionary, misogynistic, homophobic, and lesbophobic ideology in a shiny glitter disguise.

Transgenderism is the last stand of reality. It is an Orwellian lie, used to break people's wills and minds and prevent them from developing a healthy relationship with their bodies and their sexualities.

Transgenderism is that element of an overall rape culture that enjoys the most support of the ruling class. "Rape culture" is obviously a broad term, covering many aspects from various different ideologies. But while the idea that, say, Jesus hates lesbian women and wants them to overcome their homosexuality does not enjoy the support of the ruling class right now, transgenderism absolutely does. It is not the only element of rape culture - but it is that element that enjoys the most support from the most powerful class of people.

That being said: I am NOT opposed to transgenderism because of some petty bullshit about "unmasculine" men and men not being "masculine" enough anymore and shit like that. In the grand scheme of things, it's probably fair to say that most people opposing transgenderism oppose it for all the wrong reasons - and they are not necessarily pro-LGB just because they are anti-T. We just have this situation now in which everyone who opposes transgenderism calls themselves "gender critical" or something like that. And then you have communities full of conservative Christian housewives and incels obsessing over men not being "masculine" enough anymore, etc. Many of these "gender critical" women hate gays, lesbians, bisexual men, "unmasculine" men, gender non-conforming men, etc. just as much as they hate transsexuals.

CaptainWTF · 2020-12-17T21:53:05+00:00

Because from the moment the trans explosion started, the focus of every conversation in every LGB+ domain has been on celebrating and "validating" the identities and experiences of trans and GNC people, with the rest of us left to stand on the sidelines trying to figure out if we're the only one who thinks what's going on is fucked up.

Because I'm a woman, not a "person who has periods." And dialogues about the legitimate struggles and experiences of ACTUAL women in women's spaces are being crowded out by the struggles of trans women, which are categorically very different. Women have been oppressed and silenced by men for thousands upon thousands of years, and now we are...still being oppressed and silenced by (former) men, but being brainwashed into "validating" and celebrating it.

Because I've never presented as a stereotypical woman, and I think that there are many ways to express being a woman that have nothing to do with pretending that you're something other than what you are. If I was a teenager now, I might well think I was "supposed to be a man." "Choosing" gender-identity based on how well you conform to gender stereotypes is regressive and disempowering.

Because bi people are in the position of being pressured the hardest to date trans because you can't really legitimately argue genital repulsion as an excuse for not doing so. (In fact, we're not even supposed to be "bi" anymore because there are soooooo many genders.) But... I don't want girldick crammed down my throat.

Because I'm tired of pretending that the emperor is wearing clothes.

MatthewofHouseGray · 2020-12-28T12:49:01+00:00

1: Originally it made sense for the sexuality and gender aspects to be grouped together due to how small the pride movement started out as. But, now both groups are large enough where they should go their separate ways due to how different they are from each other. Your sexuality has nothing in common with your gender. To put it into perspective, transgenders being being apart of a group which largely consists of sexualities would be car driving enthusiasts being in a group with gun enthusiasts. The car people want to repeal the import ban and the gun people want to repeal the NFA. Sure both groups want to have bullshit government restrictions removed, bit their overall objectives have nothing in common and there's going to be people who don't support the other sides goal due to personal believes.

2: The transgenders are the biggest and main reason why the pride movement is having such a hard time on being accepted by people. I'm willing too bet more people would be accepting a straight out sexuality based pride movement due to sexuality being a common factor and it's something they consider to be "normal". Now with transgenders on the other hand there's a lot of people who are against let's say biological men using woman's restrooms and locker rooms and them playing in women's sports as well. There's also even fewer people who are OK with parents who are allowing their five year old son to be a girl because they said they are one.

ravenclaww · 2020-12-07T19:46:13+00:00

Basically the whole E. Page thing reaffirmed my stance that T is not compatible with LGB. The actress-formerly-known-as-Ellen spent the past six years standing up for and being proud of being a lesbian. A single open letter and a baseball cap, and we're supposed to rewrite history by saying that Ellen Page was actually Elliot, a Straight White Man, this whole time? But oh no! If TMAM, it means that "he" was stealing roles from actresses this whole time and belonging to that very same privileged demographic Page was criticizing in interviews. We can't have that, can we?

And so, in addition to being anything but a woman, the use of "he/they" pronouns and "qu*r" also serve to separate Elliot from being a true Straight White Man. LGB is pretty clear on what it stands for, or at least it should be anyway, but the T crowd is constantly trying to make themselves feel speCiAL because even being just a "straight" trans person is too basic now.

applaudissementsoniq · 2020-10-19T14:57:30+00:00

I want to get back to a point in history where science and medicine are respected, and objective reality isn't treated as some kind of figment of our collective imagination. I hate that legitimate criticism of the trans movement is actively treated as akin to celebrating genocide and thus we're forced to move our discourse onto a platform where conspiracy theories and right wing discourse are rampant on the frontpage. We're essentially viewed as untouchables, all for the supposed crime of wanting to stop child abuse.

StellaLecarde · 2020-11-13T08:03:56+00:00

Because I'm so sick of their narcissism and homophobia and general bullshit that I want to s c r e a m. Quite frankly, they're fucking up everything for the LGB, and while I do wish that genuine trans people (/not/ autogynphiles) get their rights, they need to go and make their own movement. I'm tired of their issues dragging us down, and I'm tired of being associated with their bullshit by proxy of not being straight.

Refugee from Reddit btw! Missed the old subreddit and I got sick of Reddit, so I'm here now

refusetolie · 2020-12-13T02:28:40+00:00

In short, because I oppose political coercion, the primacy of subjectivity, the reinforcement of sex stereotypes as intrinsic to sex identity as opposed to correlations, and the transformation of the pursuit of self-discovery and self-improvement into a consumerist technological affair.

Trans activists have declared it necessary for people to lie and pretend in order to respect them or for them to have equal rights. Gay rights was about acknowledging that we are different and that's okay, while the trans movement seeks to deny their differences to the greatest extent possible, asserting that it is NOT okay to acknowledge their differences unless it is to point out how they are victims, even when those differences are very relevant. Where sex is irrelevant, someone being trans or not also should be irrelevant. Sports, locker rooms, and prison assignments are examples where sex is highly relevant, and trans status is still irrelevant because barring physical modifications (that can happen separately from a trans identity such as doping or if someone IDed as trans then detransitioned), trans identity is a purely subjective phenomenon. Physical sex is not.

Laws need to be written around objective definitions as much as possible. Sexual attraction is itself a subjective phenomenon, but it is not the subjective component that is legislated around. Laws against homosexuality were and are against specific acts, whether sex acts, marriage, or adoption or other things. A discrimination case would be based on objective signs of your perceived sexual orientation (such as mentioning the sexed name of your partner or someone mentioning you're gay) and objective signs that you were discriminated against on that basis.

So yeah if Janet says she's a lesbian or John says he's bi, we tend to take them at their word at least initially, because in a casual conversation you don't need to probe the details of their sex life to get confirmation because it's just not that relevant. The same way if someone says they had a coffee and a bagel for breakfast, you don't tend to interrogate them to determine whether they're telling the truth. But if someone says they're a vegetarian and they're eating a steak right in front of you, there is nothing wrong with stating the obvious fact that they are mis-labelling themselves. Likewise, if a woman calling herself a lesbian is talking about seeking out sex with men of her own volition, there is nothing "policing" about saying that if she is telling the truth about one thing, the other thing cannot be true. A physically male person calling himself a woman or a lesbian is like the vegetarian with a steak in their mouth.

I hear from many people that yes, they know it is not true, but it is a kind lie. But kind to whom? To the person who invests loads of time, money, and pain into physical transformation only to find that of all those people who were validating them that they thought were in their dating pool, almost none of them actually honestly thought they looked good? There is a reason why a bunch of MtFs have felt aggrieved by the "cotton ceiling" after being told by lesbians (and "lesbians") around them that they were totally valid lesbians and looked great but in fact none of them really saw them as women and certainly would never want to fuck them. I don't blame most of the women and LGB people in these circles for nodding along on the affirmation wagon, as being honest would lead to ostracism at best and harassment, death and rape threats, and stalking and assaults at worst. But don't pretend it's the kind thing to do. And it's certainly not kind when you push the affirmation-only narrative so hard that you badger homosexuals for not wanting to be intimate with the opposite sex like that young lesbian recently bullied on TikTok, even though she was extremely accommodating and respectful of trans people's identities and simply could not be attracted to male genitalia or male bodies generally, because let's face it, even with surgeries and hormones, there are differences between the male and female frames that factor into sexual attraction for most people.

Gay rights does not mandate people to pretend that a homosexual couple can conceive a child or that people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality need to pretend they like it. I don't care what a coworker thinks of my relationships or sex life as long as they treat me professionally. The idea was that we won't force our views on you as long as you don't force yours on us. Gay rights definitely does not involve berating heterosexuals as homophobic for not considering sexual relationships with us.

I still support that idea. Even though I don't believe in the gender religion, I fully support other people's rights to practice it without infringing on other people's rights. If you want to call a man "she" I'm not going to try to get you prohibited from saying that. I will explain that I disagree and why, but I wouldn't try to force them to shut up any more than I would try to force someone to stop praying just because I'm an atheist. It's more fucked up to force your views on someone than it is to have a faulty perception of reality (which we all have to a greater or lesser degree).

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