all 32 comments

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Alright. In my (very very uninformed) opinion, if I had to guess what you might be based on this post, I'd say you're probably bi. You mentioned in the post that you've crushed on both men and women in the past. The "comp het" as described in the LBL doc is a steaming load of bullshit. Societal pressure cannot force attraction. If you get crushes dudes, that's entirely you. It's not unusual for women who are into guys to get a bit nervous at the thought of taking things further with them, due to fear of being vulnerable, not wanting to be seen as a sex object, etc. The good thing is that contrary to what an unfortunate number lesbians say, there is nothing wrong with being bisexual. Being into dudes doesn't make you less of a person.

That is, if that's what you are. But that's something only you can figure out, internet randos reading a reddit post can only take a guess at it. It's also not necessarily very productive to get caught up on labels anyway. Love is love, after all.

[–]Constantine[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is very helpful, thank you!

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Glad I could help :) Just remember that there's no rush to figure this sort of thing out and it's also okay to not be sure

[–]szalinskikidproblematic androphile 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's great that you can see through the bullshit that's being spread in LGBTQ+ spaces (by mostly non-LGB people). Sexuality is actually not that mysterious or complicated, and doesn't have to be a 'transformative journey' resulting in some sort of enlightenment. And most important of all: you don't have to challenge yourself or step out of your comfort zone.

If you look at men and their bodies, do you like what you see? Not necessarily any man, of course. But have you ever felt arousal or sexual attraction towards a man, or the longing to be kissed by him? Does it feel good to touch or be touched by a man, or at least the thought of it? Do you find male sex characteristics appealing? If yes to any of that, then you're definitely not a lesbian. If you've ever felt those things in regards to women, too (on top of the attraction to men), then you're bi, and if not then you're hetero. The ability to romantically feel anything for another person, being able to be in a relationship with them or perform actual sexual intercourse, is actually not a defining factor. It can be influenced by many other things outside of your sexual orientation (upbringing, trauma, mental health, (in)experience etc etc). You don't have to have sex to know what you're into, what your "deal" is, and you don't have to have romantic feelings or be in a relationship to have your orientation officially certified.

I'm a gay guy and I've never had a crush on a woman. There's nothing there, no feelings beyond friendship and platonic love. Same goes for lesbians, just the other way around. I can imagine that it's hard for a bisexual person in a monosexual society (with a heteronormative bias) to figure themselves out. It's probably easy to dismiss a slight same-sex attraction when you feel "normal" the other 95% of the time. Only you can know how you feel about men and women, and if your attraction to one or both is of a sexual nature. Trust your instincts.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a great answer :)

[–]Constantine[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It is almost impossible to say someone's sexuality through the internet. By your description with crushes, you are most likely bisexual. Homosexual person never have real crushes into the opposite sex, same as heterosexual never have real crushes into same sex. We just can't do that, even if we really wanted to.

There nothing bad in being bisexual as well.

Main problems people have with bisexuals, is that bisexuals are very often still more heterosexual leaning and they are dating with homosexual not seriously. Society hates bisexual men even more than gay men. And Lesbians don't like bisexual women, as often bisexual woman can be in relationship with man and go on dating apps to date lesbian for a bit, their man can even know about that, but they both will have "lesbian sex is not real sex, so it is not cheating" attitude.

That is main reasons why homosexual people are often very suspicious about bisexuals. So it is more about other people's bad experience, than about you.

I also think that for whatever reason I just really don't want to be bisexual. Mainly because I feel like that group is over-sexualized, and people would expect me to be interested in poly relationships when I consider myself very monogamous. Or that "transbians" would be even more likely to want to date me and feel even more entitled to my sexual interest than if I identified as a lesbian.

Does not matter how you will identify yourself, those sick men in dresses will always want to get into your panties. So you should just not care about them and ignore, as they will be there in any case.

And in general, labels does not really matter that much, they are there only to make communication easier. Saying "I am gay" means "girls, you have no chances here, and maybe there some boys around". Trans cult want to change meaning of those words, to include women in "gay men" and to include men in "lesbian women". And they want to transform "bisexual" into "pansexual". Just remember - you not owe anything to anyone, and your sexuality is not something you need to prove to anyone.

[–]Constantine[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is helpful and hits on most of my concerns, thank you!

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Don't let anyone on the internet tell you what you are. It is impossible for them to definitively say because they don't know you. I can't tell you what you are or aren't based upon about 300 words. I promise you that you won't figure things out by reading online forums and trying to puzzle things out in your head. My only advice is to go out and meet people and see if anything happens. If nothing is happening then move on. You should feel attracted to them and you should start falling in love. Love is intense and you brain goes on a chemical trip— you'll know when it happens. It's a lot more than just thinking someone is nice and caring for them a lot. You don't need a label all figured out to start seeing someone, if you meet someone (man or woman) and there's chemistry that's all the answer you need really. You don't seem very impressed with the men at the moment, so ok try dating women? If it's not working for you then stop seeing them. Also, would it help to pick up some activities (after covid) like volunteering or hobbies where you meet people and can get to know them in a non-dating context? I find this easier than dating because there's less pressure and you get to know people a bit first.

[–]Constantine[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is very helpful, thank you! And yes, I have definitely decided that I am done with online dating for the time being regardless of my sexuality. That was not a good experience. I would prefer to meet someone in person and do make an effort to go out to activities and things, but have found this is a bad way to meet men because of the aforementioned everyone-assuming-I'm-a-lesbian problem. But being open to dating women solves that.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This post is very relatable.

Growing up, I had strong feelings for the same-sex but repressed it/tried to hide it. I grew up in a ultra relgious/conservative household so it was big no-no.

Anyways, I did a crap job of hiding it lol. Many people assumed I was a butch lesbian. So...I thought I might be at one point and wanted to transition to be "normal"(I know, crappy reason) and because in my culture, women are not treated well, women are told "no, you can't do this because youre not boy/man". There is much mysogyny and much "male chauvanism"(I think is the translation to english).

Anyways...I left household as soon as i was legal adult, then i find i have an attraction to MEN apart from women which was new and different. Before, I used to be VERY envious of men, I wanted to BE like them and get intelligent, charming, beautiful girlfriend(how the hell did they pull it off?! Im jelly). Then...I want to be with them??? This was new lol.

I try to ask out the guys but they dont like...except for the one i am currently with lol. He told me he thought i was a lesbian and was surprised I asked him out for drinks and paid etc.

I don't know why everyone assumes I am lesbian? Nothing wrong with that at all, just curious on what vibe I give off. I mean...I guess I don't dress the most feminine, but not really masculine either(anymore)?

There were some women I liked in the past, but I was too much of a coward to ask. Most were either straight or unavailable bi women...then the ones that liked me were into the TQ+ stuff which i am NOT at all interested in...

My coworkers (that I'm friends with) even told me they were surprised I was pregnant because they thought I was gay???

Yep...but anyways, nobody can define who you are or who you like. Like my parents pressuring me to be straight and to date within my mother's race and HER religion. Almost got kicked out of house by the pops for cutting hair very short when younger lol. They thought it made me gay.

Or my former friends encouraging me to be "genderfluid/nonbinary".

Or the internet telling me I'm "trans".

Or the people(usually coworkers...) around me thinking I am a lesbian lol.

I don't care what they think. I love who I love, male or female, man or woman.

[–]Constantine[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This was very relatable, thank you. I don't know why everyone thinks I'm a lesbian. I used to be "butch" but in my adult life I'm more in the middle. I'm guessing it's because I just wear a lot of flannel and am very into softball/baseball, as well as the being perpetually single thing. Stereotypes are awesome /s.

I also think I would've been caught up in the whole gender transition nonsense if I were just a few years younger and had parents who pressured me to conform to gender roles. I had a lot of shame from not being classically feminine, which I think is part of why I repressed my female crushes. That and just being uncomfortable with how women are sexualized and not wanting to be a part of that.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Your situation is exactly why I find labels like Pansexual laughable. How can anyone be attracted to ALL the genders when they haven't even seen ALL the genders? (I mean, there are only two, but these people are under the delusion that there are infinite genders so...) Theoretical attraction isn't the same as actual attraction.

I think you need to figure out a way to remove the handcuffs from yourself and just allow yourself to feel sexual attraction.

A lot of people experience their first INTENSE crushes when they are pre-teens or young teens, through celebrities. Maybe you can do an exercise where you regress yourself to that age and find yourself an (over 18) celebrity to crush on, just as a sort of training-wheels. (Don't nobody laugh at me but I had such a crush on Lindsay Lohan back in the day, I still feel sad to see how she ended up, even though she doesn't look attractive to me anymore.) Find yourself a male crush and a female crush and allow yourself to just be a 12-year-old little monster who would feel no shame about jumping up and down screaming her lungs out at a Justin Bieber concert, or whatever. Just let that part of you free.

If you are taking any medication, I'd check that out as well. There are medications out there that can adversely affect your sex drive and numb your attraction to people. I'd also do a blood panel to make sure all your hormones are doing what they're supposed to be doing. There is a theory that many low libido or asexual people out there just have some kind of undiagnosed medical issue, so it's good to eliminate that option.

And take the pressure off yourself. Don't put the cart in front of the horse. First experience some crushes, have those crush-chemicals flood your brain and enjoy all of that. Enjoy watching every music video or movie or TV episode with your crush in it, no matter how bad the music/show may objectively be, enjoy being an unashamed teenage celebrity stalker, enjoy being so awkward and embarrassing and cringy and not giving a fuck because your pubescent hormones have hijacked you brain. And after that, your label will come to you.

[–]Constantine[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This was one of the most helpful comments, thank you. I don't know why, but for some reason I've always been uncomfortable with crushing on celebrities because they're real people who I don't know. I had crushes on fictional characters at that age instead, both male and female, and a select few of my classmates.

There wasn't much space in the original post, but I think part of my problems are (1) that I have Asperger's and struggle with social connection in general, and (2) that you hit the nail on the head and I've been on medication for a physical health condition since I was a teenager that complicates all these things. Hopefully I will get off of that soon since a breakthrough has been made for my condition recently that means I shouldn't have to be on that anymore.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with this approach. And I'm glad you have an avenue to remove a medical variable, here.

I think you need time and space to safely experiment without any expectations attached, and people you don't know are a safe testing ground. That's just between you and you—nobody needs to know. You can be free to explore and listen to how you respond. I had a bunch of crushes. On both sexes. When I noticed myself being attracted to female celebrities I just decided to wait until it happened in real life before I tried to have answers. Eventually that happened, and in the meantime I enjoyed my private thoughts. That's a pretty natural part of self-exploration, really. Give yourself permission to be free, and ignore the silly opinions of people who think they get to debate what you are and who you want. That is an automatic reason to stop listening to them. Nobody is entitled to intrude upon your intimate life without your consent and they sure don't get to offer commentary without invitation.

You are not doomed, take heart. What I always tell people when they have a disappointing experience is that there are 7+ billion people in the world. Keep putting yourself out there when you want to find people to play with. If you don't, that's perfectly fine too. Nearly your whole life is ahead if you, so don't put yourself on a deadline for figuring things out or discovering what appeals to you. You don't have to want anything or anyone, ever, either. But you sound interested in exploring this, so enjoy the ride.

As for low-pressure ways to be out in the world, normally I would suggest following your other interests and finding groups of other interested people or volunteering, etc. Right now, with a pandemic going on, things are harder, but in general, I find that a very useful way to meet good people. (And a few I would rather not know, but that's life, can't find the good ones without tripping over a few duds along the way.)

[–]Constantine[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for your very helpful advice! I certainly hope I'm not doomed, and rarely feel this way, but lately it's been difficult. I will keep this in mind.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

It sounds to me that you're Bisexual. From what I've heard, the master doc is full of shit. Lesbians are also very sexualized. Transbians are obsessed with lesbians, not bisexual girls because we're the "ultimate" validation for them. If a lesbian dates them, it means they're "real" women. It's definitely not easier being a lesbian. Accept yourself as bisexual (if that's the case indeed), there will be people who will love you just as you are.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I googled the masterdoc because today was the first I'd heard of it, and I was amazed how so much of what I'd consider bisexual behavior was hand-waved away with "yes, you too can be a lesbian!" and I'm not an L, so I try to stay out of it, I'm not going to be the asshole who gatekeeps Lesbianity, but I'd love to hear what actual lesbians think about this thing.

Here it is, in case anyone reads this comment and wants to see it for themselves:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vT3f5IIzt5PG-M7G9_Z-gjY4gZaiUneTdMlYrFAcdBGcJo0-N-RDQcj2JfxOaBTxKa6J_DiDQNgqVpg/pub?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'll have a look a it, thanks! Well, we've discussed about it on s/lesbians and all of us find it the most stupid thing on Earth. It seems something for bisexual women 😂 I have an idea of what it's in there, and it's absolutely ridiculous. There aren't anything good for lesbians anymore on the internet. It's full of misinformation and uwu girldick uwu.

[–]Gearbeta 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, this doc is total nonsense. There's just way too much in there about being disappointed in or scared of relationships with men and well, unfortunately, that's extremely common with straight/bisexual women. But it's not a sign that you're a lesbian otherwise, most women would be lesbians. It really is a simple matter of sexual attraction, can really just be boiled down to, when you see men have you ever gotten a crush on one or wanted to have sex with one? When you see a woman have you ever gotten a crush on one or wanted to have sex with one?

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

We have discussed the MasterDoc at length in s/lesbians. As a late-bloomer I have personally spent more time than I should analyzing this document and comparing it to what I saw in r/LBL and other late-bloomer stuff like The Lesbian Chronicles Podcast. I'm plugging a comment here that shows some of my own analysis but this thread is full of others chiming in on the subject including other way too long comments by me.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ooh, thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for!

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Just commenting again to say your entire comment was fantastic. You highlighted all the red flags I was feeling as I was reading that doc. It really does feel like it was written by someone who wishes they were lesbian, not an actual lesbian.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm glad you found the analysis on-point. Can I ask, as a bisexual, if you had found this document in some context where it wasn't being presented as flawed, and in fact was being held up as gospel, do you have a sense of what your thoughts about the MasterDoc might be? Do you think it would influence how you felt about your sexual orientation at all? On r/LBL this document is pinned in the side bar as THE way to determine if you're a lesbian (Along with another really horrible and weird list discussed in s/lesbians here. On the Lesbian Chronicles podcast, when asked how they realized they were gay and why it took them so long to come out, they just point to the MasterDoc as having all the answers. From what I've heard of the many episodes of the podcast I listened to and from searching the episode descriptions, they never address the actual circumstances of them realizing they were lesbians and deciding to leave their marriages to men, particularly Melisa who claims she had "no idea" that she was gay. The other, Ally, says she basically always knew she was gay but that she felt there was no way for her to be gay and out. That itself is not too crazy. She's from a religious family in the South of the U.S., but then she also makes it seem like she was waiting until she was done having children with her husband and her kids were old enough that there was not so much reason for her to be a stay-at-home mom (she had 4 in total that were reasonably spaced out). It's just all really weird because the entire podcast is largely them trying to sell lesbian as a lifestyle.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

if you had found this document in some context where it wasn't being presented as flawed,

That's actually the perspective I had when I initially found the document because I Googled it right after reading the OP and before reading the comment I replied to above, so I came upon it with clueless eyes, and it had the endorsement of the late bloomer sub, so I had no reason to doubt it. I honestly thought I was about to read a legendary tome of lesbian secrets, and then I'm reading and it's like....................... "Yeah gurl, you can totally like male characters and be attracted to them and still be lesbian..." Like... WHAT????

It took me about two minutes to go from "Ooh, I found a lesbian treasure!" to "Ew! I stepped in some doo-doo!" That's why I came back here like "Hey... Um... Lesbians? What do you think about this?" because it's like... What even is the difference between a lesbian and a bisexual who chooses to be female-partner-only if everything in that document is the real truth? In my head, a lesbian is a woman who has neverevereveverever been sexually attracted to a male EVER. Not even once. (Except maybe by mistake/confusion/duress? IDK, I'm willing to consider extreme-scenario loopholes, since I'm not a lesbian and don't feel comfortable speaking over them.) But to me, it's extremely black and white what a lesbian is. There is no grey. This entire document is grey grey grey. And it is written in a specific way as to open the gate wiiiiide open to let all the self-identifiers in.

But I'm 40 with lots of IRL experience so it's easy for me to see through the bullshit. I am so scared for these young girls who are reading this and gobbling it up!

EDIT - The new list you linked - hooooly shit. A lot of those don't even sound like bisexual women, they sound like straight women who are tired of having horrible sex with man-babies who probably don't even wash their asses properly after using the toilet. There is an epidemic of worthless undateable men out there making straight women miserable, just go to /r/femaledatingstrategy to see what I mean. (And gay/bi bros, I'm not talking about you or about all the men, this is just a very virulent strain of domesticated fuckboy.)

[–]Constantine[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This perfectly encapsulates all of the concerns I had about the doc. I'm very glad I came here. I mean honestly, a straight woman in an unfulfilling relationship with the wrong man could end up thinking she's a lesbian based on that thing.

edit: spelling

[–]sickofit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow... this doc is pretty bad. Maybe this is part of why so many girls are confused about their sexuality. I’m a lesbian and I feel alienated by this document lol. Almost all of it is about men... sleeping with men, loving men, dating men... not women.

[–]Constantine[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]HelloMomo 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

My two cents: Social pressure can make lesbians think that platonic friendly feelings toward guys are actually crushes. It can't cause actual genuine crushes, though.

[–]Constantine[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is what I'm trying to work out, since I've never actually been physical with anyone. I feel like one crush in particular was real, but it's also telling I think that the boy in question was the one who was least likely to want to take things to the next level (very socially awkward and religious with a purity ring), so I wonder if I liked him because there was no chance of it becoming a real thing. Plus, I also had a thing for his sister. My other crushes have been few and far between and not very intense, but I also don't connect with people easily, so it could be that and not anything to do with my sexuality.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

but it's also telling I think that the boy in question was the one who was least likely to want to take things to the next level (very socially awkward and religious with a purity ring), so I wonder if I liked him because there was no chance of it becoming a real thing

Feeling attracted to "unavailable" partners has nothing do to with your sexuality though. It can be related to your attachment style, insecurities of yours, etc etc. I'm a lesbian and I've noticed over the years a pattern and I usually tend to attract emotionally unavailable women. If you felt attraction towards that guy, you're not a lesbian.

[–]Constantine[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is helpful, thank you.