ACB: "Sexual Preference"; TRA: "Genital Preference"

submitted by fr_bandersnatchghey... from self.LGBDropTheT

My gay and lesbian friends (rightly so) are outraged at Amy Coney Barrett's use of "sexual preference", correctly blasting back that we've fought for the last 60 years to have our sexual ORIENTATION recognized and respected. I'm hoping against hope that if and when "genital preference" becomes more widely bandied about, the gaslighting and invalidation will be that much more recognizable to a much wider audience. Both phrases are homophobic when applied to gays and lesbians.

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[–]Shadow_Lurker 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'm hoping against hope that if and when "genital preference" becomes more widely bandied about, the gaslighting and invalidation will be that much more recognizable to a much wider audience

It won't, it just won't.

In the moment this shit start affecting straight people TRAs asses are done. There's a huge difference between the right to live and the right to be fucked by people who aren't interested in you. When people discover that the modern transgender movement stands for the second and not the first, there will be backslash, it's just a matter of time.

Prepare the popcorn, it's gonna be fun!

[–]FineIWillDoItMyself 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

There's a huge difference between the right to live and the right to be fucked by people who aren't interested in you.

Incel logic = Trans logic UwU

[–]zerosis 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

God I fucking hope so.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

No, it's not a good thing if phrases like "genital preference" are adopted mainstream. It won't necessarily wake people up, it might just allow people who are already quietly homophobic to be more openly so, leading to our rights being legally stripped. There's a reason words like these have caught on in the radical movements, and it's because a large portion of those people were already subconsciously homophobic. I have been reading about the history of revolutionary movements to try and understand what is going on now, and a return to sanity is not inevitable, or even likely if TRAs shift the overton window and their language is mainstreamed. I am not trying to depress anyone but we need to fight this every step of the way. When someone uses a phrase like "genital preferences", correct them and explain why it's wrong. If a politician uses it, hold them accountable and challenge them however you can. Speak up when it is safe, and talk to people (one on one) if you trust them, and tell them what's going on. We need as many allies on board as we can for this. We need to insist on truth and accuracy in language, every time this comes up.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

No, it's not a good thing if phrases like "genital preference" are adopted mainstream. It won't necessarily wake people up, it might just allow people who are already quietly homophobic to be more openly so, leading to our rights being legally stripped.

Do you really think straight man will embrace the #girldick? They don't take MtF as real woman and never did so. The same goes for straight woman, even tough they are less vocal then the man.

I have been reading about the history of revolutionary movements to try and understand what is going on now, and a return to sanity is not inevitable, or even likely if TRAs shift the overton window and their language is mainstreamed.

Tucker Carlson challenged known TRA Zinnia Jones to debate this subject on his show and what did our brave and stunning woman do? He ran away with his #girldick between his legs.

This is proof of how this shit is never going to become mainstream.

They only pick on gays and lesbians because they are easy targets, considering how the whole LGBT bullshit attached the TQs to these groups like a cancerous tumour.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Shadow I really, really hope you're right. I don't think ideas like "girldique" will ever be accepted, more that I think TRA ideology will be accepted through vague platitudes like "trans rights now" and "TWAW", like we're seeing right now, and the whole society could turn the other way at "girldique"/pretend it's not happening at all. The specific ideas don't have to be accepted or understood by everyone, but laws can be written that allow this ideology to wreak havoc and destroy gay rights. It can all happen very quietly too if enough people deny it. It's called doublethink. But I seriously hope I am wrong.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Shadow I really, really hope you're right. I don't think ideas like "girldique" will ever be accepted, more that I think TRA ideology will be accepted through vague platitudes like "trans rights now" and "TWAW", like we're seeing right now, and the whole society could turn the other way at "girldique"/pretend it's not happening at all.

Light up your mood! The darkest time of the night must come before the daylight, always remember this.

People are already rising up against the TRAs: the "trans kid" stuff is already getting pushback, more and more high profile people (like Rowling) are speaking out against their demands and governments are changing their legislation on order to restrict access to HRT via public healthcare.

The night is almost over, we just need to keep firm until them.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I appreciate your optimism. This situation takes me to a very dark place mentally, and is very draining. It's true more and more people are speaking up, and that gives me hope.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just wanted to say I appreciate your optimism. :) I think we've just got to keep going, too. We've already seen some turnaround in the UK, which is a good sign.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's a reason words like these have caught on in the radical movements, and it's because a large portion of those people were already subconsciously homophobic.

Which radical movements you are talking about in particular and what do you think it is about them that results in a large portion of them being subconsciously or consciously homophobic?

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yousaythosethings I was talking about radical lgbt and intersectional feminist politics. For the second question, I suspect some people are quietly, passively homophobic due to upbringing. I don't think leftist activism draws homophobes, but leftist activists are less likely to admit it if they are homophobic.

[–]fuck_reddit 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A Senator asked her about it and she said she meant to say sexual orientation. She also said she believes sexual orientation is immutable.

[–]a_blue_bird 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the gaslighting and invalidation will be that much more recognizable to a much wider audience

It could just as well go the opposite direction. LBG gets conflated with T all the time. Transsexuals are frequently seen as just gay. So if they call sexuality a preference, it could be seen by many as LGB admitting that homosexuality really is just a preference.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Pedantic. "Preference" isn't accurate but "orientation" isn't that different. In my opinion, both are inaccurate and the choice of words really doesn't matter. The CONCEPT matters. Masking it with terms just leads to misconceptions and distortion of reality.

Like how gay rights slogans use "Love is love" when really, most gay men are primarily interested in hookups, and many don't care for "love" at all.

This isn't a TRA or "queer" problem, this has been an issue since the "gay community" became a thing and it's not going to go away if we shift the blame to other people. "LGB" people have to answer for this as much as TRAs do. Both are guilty of false wording and terms that are deliberately making things seem different to what they are.

Saying that the word "orientation" grants you human rights is also hyperbole and "sexual preference" isn't "homophobic." Just as it isn't homophobic to call me "bisexual." It's just incorrect. Incorrect does not mean offensive, this is what's wrong with modern "progressives" and politics. A wrong fact can just be a wrong fact, it doesn't need to be an ultra-offensive personal attack on your very human rights and existence.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Reptillian have you read books like 1984? The words people use are extremely important, because the basis of propaganda is language. I think you have a very biased and dark view of homosexuality, saying most don't care about "love". I don't know where you get this idea, but it's plain wrong.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Living up to that flair. :)

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

LOL thanks Reluctant! I was getting annoyed at the "useless lesbian" meme bullshit over at AL. I'm pretty fucking useful, dammit I can put together IKEA furniture and can even make a casserole. Extra salty thanks to TRA tears.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No problem!!! I'm a little tempted to copy it 😆 the "useless lesbian" trope bothers me as well. When I first started questioning whether I might be lesbian and I went on Tumblr to try to hear other people's experiences, all I heard was "useless lesbian useless lesbian" over and over.. like, guys, how do you not see the misogyny/self-insult? "Ha ha I'm so incompetent" it saddens me to see so many people putting down gay women like that, usually themselves.

edit: actually a lot of them might be male "transbians" come to think of it. Now it suddenly makes sense. "Teehee I'm a useless woman" might be part of the fetish getup for an autogynephile.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah! Fucking go for it! I hope it spreads like wildfire. My experience was the same as yours except with AL instead of tumblr. I saw that "useless lesbian" crap everywhere and it was super demoralizing. I get that it's supposed to be funny and "relatable" for some reason, but it was honestly so depressing seeing it constantly. It's one thing for minority groups prone to self-hatred making self-hating jokes. It's worse when others then feel entitled to make those jokes about us. Especially when the others are gross AGP men.

[–]TheBeefBenson 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not really agreeing with the rest of everything Reptilian said there, which seemed to be an unhelpful tangent, but your comparisons of ACB's slip up to authoritarian control of language is just silly. It's authoritarian propaganda when it's used as an intentional effort to subvert reality. Not just a harmless mistake by one person who doesn't seem to know all that much.

And quite frankly, who would you rather have in a position of such authority at the moment. Someone who keeps their nose out of LGBT affairs, or someone who's really "down" with being an ally... because I know which is going to be more likely to support the TRAs and whose not. Give you a clue, it isn't the first one.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Beef I wasn't talking about specifically ACB's slip-up, more about possible consequences, years down the line if phrases like "sexual preference" and "genital preference" is accepted in mainstream language and politics. I think that combined with acceptance of TRA it could lead to a backpeddling of our rights. That was my point.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pedantic. "Preference" isn't accurate but "orientation" isn't that different. In my opinion, both are inaccurate and the choice of words really doesn't matter. The CONCEPT matters. Masking it with terms just leads to misconceptions and distortion of reality.

Concepts are signified by words, not just by themselves.

Like how gay rights slogans use "Love is love" when really, most gay men are primarily interested in hookups, and many don't care for "love" at all

They are people who consider pure sexual relationships to be a form of love. While I don't fully agree with them, I also don't care about what they think because they aren't trying to shame me into agreeing with them or changing legislation in order to do so.

A wrong fact can just be a wrong fact, it doesn't need to be an ultra-offensive personal attack on your very human rights and existence.

What you are forgetting is that their discourse have clear political implications, which circle around making the very right of refusing sex to them a social sin worthy of punishment.

Re-defining sexual orientation as sexual preference prepares the way for the genital preference discourse, which in turn brings about the whole "you don't have any reason to deny sex to us besides bigotry" bullshit.

It's always important to think one step ahead.

As history have shown us again and again, tunnel vision can have serious consequences in the long run.

[–]hinterlands 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Orientation means facing east. That's what homosexuality is to us: the cardinal direction. And for Jews and Muslims, the direction of Jerusalem, the direction we face for our daily prayers.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

...The hell did I just read.

It's not a religion! My sexuality is nothing but a fault in my neurology (most likely.) This type of stuff annoys me. Please do not dress it up and make it sound better than it is, this actively harms people.

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

slogans use "Love is love" when really, most gay men are primarily interested in hookups, and many don't care for "love" at all.

I'm going to say that is not confined to gay men. That's most people these days. Hookup culture and lack of love is happening across the board. And that "love is love" slogan worries me because you know they will extend it to "Minor Attracted Persons" and those who "love" dogs.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

True, but I feel like on average, men in general are less likely to care about love or experience it. In my experience anyway.

Yes, that too. It's also meaningless. Following the same formula of "Love is love" we can also say "Sex is sex" but that would be considered offensive to trans, wouldn't it? It's a nonstatement. "This concept is this concept", no shit it is.

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know Judge Barrett's mind, but I think when a lot of straight people say "sexual preference," it shows they are uncomfortable talking about homosexuality and they're just trying to be polite. I don't read that much into it.

As for "genital preference" --- I don't foresee the mainstream taking up TRA jargon (please no, please!!!) any time soon. Most people are uncomfortable freely using the word "genital."