all 26 comments

[–][deleted] 41 insightful - 1 fun41 insightful - 0 fun42 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

yeah, i've been noticing that too. masc woman, without fail, are asked their pronouns. It is the same with men who present more feminine. GNC now means you are either trans or nonbinary it's so fucking regressive.

[–]insta 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I remember that post about some ""GNC"" parent who's daughter misgendered her and I was like "wait, do GNC people use they/their pronouns?" I was so confused.

Almost every single GNC person I've met has been a lesbian woman and I've never encountered one who didn't go by her/she pronouns. I thought the whole point of GNC was not caring about labels and boundaries, not forcing others to use your words or else.

[–]peaked2020 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve been asked my pronouns even when I’ve specifically asked to be left alone. Some people even avoid using any pronoun for me and keep it gender neutral by default. This is consistent with what I’ve heard from fellow butches. I am a woman.

[–][deleted] 37 insightful - 2 fun37 insightful - 1 fun38 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

They're trying to make it so that EVERYTHING is trans. It's a tactic to make them seem more populous than they actually are. They trans the dead and they try to trans the living, too.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 24 insightful - 5 fun24 insightful - 4 fun25 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Hey there little boy, you're not much into sports and kinda into dolls, yeah?

Let's put you on some meds to block puberty and then when you're 16 we'll chop off your dick.

Sound good?

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is the part that scares me. I am 100% comfortable and proud to be a homosexual male, but if the T crowd had gotten to me when I thought something was wrong with me for not liking sports and being scrawny, I would definitely have been brainwashed without any issue. They are taking children that just don't fit in with the stereotypes and now are tricking them into thinking they're something that they actually aren't when all they need is a little time and puberty to realize who they were all along. Puberty works magic to help get rid of questions about one's sex/gender/whateveritisnow, so now they're trying to prevent that from happening

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This site needs a "horror" vote button for posts like this.

[–]les4leshomonormative 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

this exactly. not enough people bought into genderspecialfeels so they're pretending that regular men and women (especially LGB) are part of them

[–]ThiccDropkickGay 26 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Particularly when you consider anyone who isn't a 1950's sitcom character is gender nonconforming to them. You're a chick who likes sports? A dude who likes pink? Looks like you're a genderfluid enby now

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And if someone doesn't use your pronouns, it's literal violence and you're entitled to curl up into a ball, throwing a tantrum about how unfair it all is.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think this is just ignorance rather than malice.

Originally, Nonbinary, especially "genderqueer", referred to gender ROLES and did accurately more describe GNC people. I witnessed the takeoff of it, like, back in 2011 maybe. Back then "genderqueer" itself was neither a "gender" nor a "sex." If you saw someone call themselves that it basically just meant "Oh I'm not like the other girls. I have a pixie cut and wear pants. I'm a GENDERQUEER woman."

It was still cringy as fuck but it didn't mean "I'm neither female nor male." Then somewhere down the line, well, these things tend to get more and more extreme, and it became what we know as "nonbinary" now.

So I think these tone-deaf, for-profit LGBT orgs just think it's one in the same because they genuinely don't know or care. Like how they all include intersex as a "LGBT thing" to seem inclusive & relatable even though tons of intersex people are asking people to stop doing that.

They only pretend to care for money and a good reputation, they don't really care about what the words mean or anything.

[–]dramasexual 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It pisses me off every single time, because I am very GNC, but that does not make me any less of a woman.

[–]boeing737 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Omg you are a female 😡

[–]ChodeSandwichtender and moist 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I noticed it some time ago. That's just what TRAs do. They graciously allow us to have words that differentiate sex from gender, for example, and sex role non-conformists from full-blown trans people... and then they turn around and redefine everything to be about gender identity and ~ transness ~ anyway.

[–]CleverNickName 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was also easy because gender-noncomforming people didn't explicitly make an identity out of gender-nonconformity. They weren't "The GNC™". They were lots of other types of different and non-conforming. The boys with long hair in the 70's (earlier? I wasn't alive then) didn't to it for the twitter-likes, for some reason. Punk girls didn't ... well, it's in the name, isn't it? And that's just really really obvious ones.

Nobody understands the word "nonconforming" - or of course they do and have set out to deliberately morph it into yet another form of conformity. Non-binary is the complete opposite and it must be by design.

I kept saying "they" when I don't conform to the "male gender" (ugh) either. Never have. No, I've never worn pink, or painted my nails, or really done any other girly shit (sorry, girls, it's not shit, it's only "girly shit" when it's so forced). I'm just not manly. Non-conformity is not the opposite of conformity in the sense of "If not M then F else Error". It's not a third gender, it's not non-binary just because it isn't "either", it's not conforming to standards and stereotypes.
But I said "they" because I too don't identify all that strongly with GNC, I just am - or at least share some select experiences with "truly" GNC people, if there is such a thing. LOTS of people are thankfully gender-nonconforming, and most of them are, ironically, "normal". Because it's not a badge to show how different and unique you are - it's a shared experience for people who realize that we are human first, individuals with wants and needs that don't conform to the 4 and a half strict lines of thinking we grow up with, just based off of sex.

That sounds like made-up esoteric nonsense, but it's part of the reason why it was so easy to co-opt the GNC label. Gender non-conformity was accepted surprisingly quickly. Dressing a little different, or working certain pointlessly-gendered jobs, or staying home as a dad, or many other ways to live your life aren't widely shunned and belittled by absolutely everyone.
And that's where the TQ+ struck. Nobody really cared, in the good sense, so it was an easy term to snatch up, and so juicy too as it contains the word "gender". If it revolves around gender (not realizing that it doesn't), it must be able to be used to make the straights uncomfortable. Knowing how little it takes to accidentally not conform to gender-norms, it also casts the widest possible net to catch many people, especially young people, and convert them to hardcore gender-identity. Why wouldn't you be interested in gender-identity? You are gender-nonconforming, after all.

I mean, even in this subsaidit, many people don't seem to realize that the nonconformity isn't targeted at your gender, but the idea of gender at all. The terms "masculine woman" and "feminine men" irk me a little. They're not wrong - we can attribute certain physical features to femininity and masculinity. It's a bell-curve, right? It's how the "gendered brain" was debunked - gay men don't have women's brains, they just have things in common that are more often found in women. Tall women aren't men. Physically, masculinity and femininity are - sort of? - a thing.
But gender is a social construct. If you make a choice in fashion or behaviour (and it is a choice, as products of social construction aren't innate; God didn't make women's jeans), you're still conforming to gender - the opposite gender. I'm not saying Don't, I'm not saying it's all wrong - it's very often not even a real choice as we only have two dumb "man or girl" options - the belittling of the woman in that example is deliberate and I'm saying it was marketing's idea, not mine. Because that's what they do. That's how they get you and me to conform.

[–]fuck_reddit 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The reason this concerns me so much is because I believe integration of feminine interests/impulses for men and masculine interests/impulses for women is a necessary step in psychological development for all people. The predominance of the 'opposite' gendered interests/impulses varies a lot between individuals, but it is still important for becoming a calmer and more put-together person. What they seem to be doing is corrupting this and making "gender non-comformity" into some thing that's unique to a certain part of the population, and, for that subset, doesn't actually require people to integrate masculinity/femininity. When you look at "GNC" people, all their "masculine" and "feminine" aspects aren't them becoming more comfortable with themselves but instead them putting on a show for everyone else. It's the exact opposite of what we should be encouraging people to do.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Anyone else notice how they're trying to change the meaning of GNC?

Yes. Gender non-conforming is an ADJECTIVE (ex. Masculine woman, feminine man and non-binary typically used as a noun/POLITICAL identity.

I am a GNC woman. Because I am 'masculine', that doesn't mean I change my pronouns/sex to make a (political) statement. My whole being ISN'T a political statement, I just me. We're just regular people who happen to not follow the typical gender roles/expectation.

Nonbinary people are trying to make a political statement by being "no sex" and going by they/them pronouns. They ARE for gender roles funnily enough. They think because they like "masculine" things like sports and trucks BUT ALSO "feminine" things like makeup and fashion, that they don't fall in EITHER category. Either that or they don't have strong stereotypical masculine nor feminine interests that they basically claim to be "neither".

The best way I can put it is gender nonconforming people defy gender roles while trans/non-binary people conform to gender roles---which makes us gender non conforming...

u/Kai_Decadence is a GNC man too and has very insightful responses and topics. He may be able to shine light from his perspective.

[–]Kai_Decadence 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The depressing thing about "non-binary" is that it could've been a neat new phrase to refer to Gender Nonconforming, especially for Gender nonconforming men since unlike women who had the term "tomboy" to describe a masculine woman, there was never a positive word that describes the reverse aka feminine man. "Sissy", "Faggot", "Fruit", "Gaylord"... These terms were always meant to be derogatory towards men who weren't masculine. And then when we got the word "Femboy", it quickly got corrupted by the kink/fetish crowd and now when you search up "Femboy", you're bombordd with sexual crap so. So there just wasn't a non-demeaning word that could be used to describe a feminine boy and so when I first heard of "non-binary" and I saw a man referring to himself as that while having a feminine appearance that didn't look kinky or sexualized, I was all for it until I dug deeper and saw that these people were trying to use that to tie into sex/gender and I just shook my head in disappointment lol.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The depressing thing about "non-binary" is that it could've been a neat new phrase to refer to Gender Nonconforming, especially for Gender nonconforming men

Yeah, I noticed that too---about how there's not a positive/neutral term to call non gender conforming men apart from "GNC" or "feminine men"

Apart from those terms there's "metrosexual" but...if I understood correctly, that's used for straight feminine men.

I'm just annoyed that as a GNC person, in this day and age, we're still expected to "change" ourselves to conform...(ex. Being told we're secretly trans or "gender fluid"???)

[–]Kai_Decadence 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep exactly and about Metrosexual, yeah it was mostly used to describe a straight man who didn't mind being stylish and doing more self-grooming care. But I don't think "metrosexual" would describe a GNC man who is the equivalent of the reverse butch woman.

I'm just annoyed that as a GNC person, in this day and age, we're still expected to "change" ourselves to conform...(ex. Being told we're secretly trans or "gender fluid"???)

Eugh I know. It's freaking depressing that people say that crap to us about how we're secretly trans or in denial of being trans when we can see why Trans is a lie and is society's way of ridding society of gender nonconforming people since we disrupt the social construct.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just wanted to add I found this quote on twitter about non-binary:

Being non-binary is an ideological trap. You reject the strict rigidity of gender binarism—I’m with you there. But you define yourself as a negation. Your identity, then, existentially depends on this binary.

You are not dismantling it, you are immortalising it.

Someone tries to throw in an atheist analogy so the commenter replies:

Being non binary is the sum total of these people’s identity. They define themselves by not subscribing to the binary—but they have to always think about what the binary is to successively avoid it. And others need to think of it too in order to make sense of what being NB is.

Here is the source:

[–]BiHorror 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They're not changing the definition. If anything, they're bringing back the original meaning/term. "GNC" used to (or still is) be synonymous with genderqueer, non binary, gender variant, etc. Especially since that's what the coiner (Riki Anne Wilchins) made it out to be.

Honestly tho, they can have it. Could use a update and easier-to-understand term, especially one non-GC (and TRA) people can understand and use.

[–]Lesbianese[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Would you happen to have a source? I'm very curious about this and Google isn't being useful.

[–]BiHorror 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, I'll admit I made a miscalculation (although they edited the page which was 11 days ago) but it no longer says she was the one who coined it, but her term is associated with it due to description. As in "genderqueer" (alongside gender variance, nonbinary, gender diverse, etc.) being another way to describe "GNC" people. As far as who specifically coined GNC, it doesn't give specific names now. Although keeps coming back to "gender identity" (on other websites. Which that was coined by John Money and the mess he created). With that being said, considering what the "G" now stands for and who most definitely coined it (Money), I still don't like being labeled "GNC."

As for the link that was stating that:

But if you search up "Who coined the term gender nonconforming" on Google, her name still pops up for it (at least it does for me).

Edit: words

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've seen GNC as synonymous to both non-binary and transgender. They're not the same.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, it's definitely an issue. I miss the days when GNC meant "I'm a woman/man who doesn't dress or act like how a woman/man stereotypically does" instead of "iM a nOnbInARy dEmiGiRl fLUidflUX uwu"