all 60 comments

[–]pacmanla 47 insightful - 1 fun47 insightful - 0 fun48 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's good you "woke" up in the time that you did. Yes, pun was intended, sorry. The thing with TRAs calling people "TERFS", has essentially lost meaning at this point.

Gay male - doesn't want vagina & wants a biological male = "TERF"

Heterosexual male - doesn't want penis & wants a biological female = "TERF"

Heterosexual female - doesn't want vagina & wants a biological male = "TERF"

Bisexual male - doesn't want vagina attached to a biological male, doesn't want penis attached to a biological female. When he's with a woman, he wants a biological woman. When he's with a man, he wants a biological male. = "TERF"

Bisexual female - doesn't want vagina attached to a biological male, doesn't want penis attached to a biological female. When she's with a woman, she wants a biological woman. When she's with a man, she wants a biological male.

Last but CERTAINLY not least

Lesbians (seems to be the most targeted of the TRAs & we know why that is) - doesn't want penis & wants to be with a biological female. = "TERF"

Notice how the word biological kept showing up in my rundown of just basic sexual orientations. Heck, the TRAs don't even like that term, which is just another term for reality. TERF basically is a commendation badge now, because you're not ashamed of your sexual orientation & won't be "converted" otherwise. 2020 is insane, when you have heterosexuals having to damn near come out & say that they're not ashamed of their heterosexuality. Can you really believe that? Wow, crazy times.

I'm glad you found this sub & others can help you cope with being in the 'Twilight Zone', & the knowing that you're not alone.

[–]zerosis[S] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, these are insane times. I honestly never would have thought it would get to this point. If you had told me ten years ago that gay men and women would be erased and re-conditioned en masse by their own community, for instance, I just wouldn't have believed it. I would have laughed at the idea of women being re-termed 'menstruators' in the name of social justice. This has been a painful learning experience.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 39 insightful - 1 fun39 insightful - 0 fun40 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I was never actively TRA. I never tried to shut down any conversation. I never called anyone transphobic or a TERF. But I did come from a mind set where I casually accepted and cheered on anything “pro trans” and booed anything “anti-trans.” It was always framed as liberal vs. conservative and like trans people were this super tiny group with no political power and that were getting murdered in the streets. I did know some trans people, but I also assumed that there had to be more to their story than what I could see.

I didn’t get into the politics and ideology until I started noticing a lot of disturbing discourse that was not getting immediately questioned as homophobic, misogynistic, and rape-y. I started noticing a lot of “this never happens” and “no one is saying” language, constantly denying the happenings of things I had witnessed. When I looked for answers and explanations, they were hard to come by. I started noticing the role of mainstream and liberal media in all of this, and also why only conservative media was allowed to broadcast any opposition. I peaked pretty quickly once I actively looked into it but there was a period where I was trying to be as gentle as possible until I realized that you couldn’t be. That this requires directness and not coddling or enabling.

For like a year before this I was trying to understand “non-binary” and I could never grasp it. I started to think “why can’t you be a man/woman and do those things or feel that way?” It never made any sense, but I just assumed that I didn’t get it.

I did find it all completely unwieldy because I’m a lawyer and I do some work with LGBT stuff and it is fucking impossible to have a coherent conversation when people are infusing gender stuff and pronouns into it. Witness interviews were difficult because everything was “they they they they they” and I would constantly have to interrupt to figure out who the hell was doing what in a story. I had obvious gay men and women in front of me insist that they weren’t men or women, but were non-binary. The legal claims that people were asserting made no sense because they were all genderfucked.

At a certain point I had to realize that my mind was so open that my brain had fallen out. I try to learn from all of the times there was a red flag waving in my face that I ignored and use that to help me communicate the issue to others.

[–]zerosis[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, I hadn't even thought of how frustrating it must be to work in the legal field with all of this going on.

[–][deleted] 30 insightful - 5 fun30 insightful - 4 fun31 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of "TERFS" actually begin as typical good little libfems or good little liberals until they're viewed as Hitler.

[–]reluctant_commenter 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Hey-- just wanted to say, I also often get discouraged by how negative things seem, too. But here's some positives:

  • JK Rowling making her "manifesto" about transing children and sticking to her guns, which has peaked a LOT of people.

  • The U.K. starting to turn around on gender ideology-- stuff like BBC removing Mermaids from its suggested pages, the Tavistock gender clinic under investigation, and the court case that's currently in progress with the detrans woman.

  • This sub as a place to talk about it all :)

  • (For us Americanz) The fact that the U.S. is such a sue-happy country. Seriously, people sue each other left and right over the the smallest things, you can bet anything that people will sue over the extensive and life-long damage being caused by all the trans medications and surgeries.

It might take a few years but this thing WILL get turned around, I promise you. It's a travesty. It's awful, it really is, the whole thing. But it WILL pass.

I'm afraid that I'm not going to be able to meet any other gay men who haven't bought into this shit.

I feel you. I don't know many people period, let alone other lesbian/bisexual women, who are not drinking the koolaid. But, I used to drink the koolaid myself and I woke up. Other people will, too. :)

[–]zerosis[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You're right, there are some positives and I should try to focus on those! I really believe that a huge legal scandal is coming in a few years when these trans kids come of age, and it's going to be a tragic mess that will be fun for absolutely no-one. To be honest I'm really just grieving my community. I feel like I really don't have one anymore, and that's a rough place to be. Knowing that there are many other gay/bi people who at best hate me and at worst would probably be happy to see me in front of a firing squad (though I know that's probably just hyperbole when I see it) for advocating for homosexuality and women's rights just feels... surreal and distressing.

[–]reluctant_commenter 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I feel like I really don't have one anymore, and that's a rough place to be. Knowing that there are many other gay/bi people who at best hate me and at worst would probably be happy to see me in front of a firing squad (though I know that's probably just hyperbole when I see it) for advocating for homosexuality and women's rights just feels... surreal and distressing.

...Yeah. Same here. Seeing my former classmates and my peers say this stuff really makes me feel alienated. Sometimes I feel like I'm crazy, for being bothered by it; TRAs say stuff like, "Oh, it's just the internet, only a tiny amount of people say X" (X being "not wanting to suck dick is transphobic," etc.), but I absolutely know people who are hostile and bully others over that stuff, IRL. I haven't seen it start an actual physical fight but yelling, verbal aggression, and spreading rumors about the "problematic" person afterwards-- absolutely.

Sorry, now I'm being negative, haha. Point is, I feel you, I guess, and if I'm too scared to even bring up this subject with people, I'm certain that others must be, too. I try to find kind people who have thoughtful views on other subjects, and don't have a general tribalism mentality.

[–]zerosis[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

TRAs say stuff like, "Oh, it's just the internet, only a tiny amount of people say X"

Oh yeah, I hear this kind of thing a lot, but I swear to god every single one of my friend groups has been directly affected and split apart by this. Whenever I hear 'it's just on twitter/reddit' I feel like someone's trying to tell me to ignore the bushfire that's a couple miles away while I'm currently being choked out by the smoke cloud. If I was outspoken about my beliefs IRL, I could be in serious financial and even personal danger.

But we should take solace in the fact that there ARE people waking up from this, and that's not going to stop happening, ever! Honestly, when you get down to it, because we are a sexually dimorphic species, TRA ideology can never fully take hold over a human civilization. You can't 'educate' away people's heterosexuality or homosexuality. There will always be new people being born, people who will reject the notion of being told what they should be attracted to and who they should love, people who will love their bodies as they naturally are and who won't surgically or horomonally alter themselves because they don't fit into prescribed gender roles, people who will know that biological sex is a beautiful and real part of the human experience that has tangible effects on the lives of women and men. Our situation feels dire right now, but that's just a feeling, not reality. Like, TRA's might as well be trying to convince everyone the sky is green. They might change the definition of 'green' to mean what 'blue' used to stand for, but reality is still there, reality still works, reality doesn't bother with our definitions or ideals. I don't know if this is even making sense, haha, but that kind of helps me stay grounded these days.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Our situation feels dire right now, but that's just a feeling, not reality. Like, TRA's might as well be trying to convince everyone the sky is green. They might change the definition of 'green' to mean what 'blue' used to stand for, but reality is still there, reality still works, reality doesn't bother with our definitions or ideals. I don't know if this is even making sense, haha, but that kind of helps me stay grounded these days.

It makes perfect sense!! Funny, that sentiment, especially the first sentence, is something I often try to keep in mind when it comes to trauma flashbacks...

I am too exhausted to form much of a coherent reply right now, other than to say I completely agree. The objective truth wins out in the long-run. Thank god for that. :)

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wish I had more upvotes to give this!

These days, especially with our own people falling all over themselves to compliment the Trans Emperor's new clothes... we can easily forget that there ARE some hopeful signs. Thanks so much for the reminder; I, at least, need all the encouragement that I can get! (Glad that you weren't too reluctant to comment!)

And thank the gods-- or, rather, the mods-- for this sub, too (what with all the fatwas issued against it by gender-jihadis). I really feel like we're a repository of wisdom here, ensuring that it survives this fucking barbarian invasion. LGBDropTheT = Library of Alexandria?

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Awh, thanks :) of course!! I think there is always hope when one is doing the best they can. Objective reality always wins out in the long run, it just takes time for some people's denial to catch up to them.

(Glad that you weren't too reluctant to comment!)

Haha, I am often reluctant but I have the name because I thought this account would be a throwaway when I first commented on s/lesbians-- and I was initially nervous to comment, in fact, because of all the things I had heard about the Mean Nasty Terfs from TRAs. Go figure :)

I really feel like we're a repository of wisdom here, ensuring that it survives this fucking barbarian invasion. LGBDropTheT = Library of Alexandria?

Hahaha, yeah it is definitely nice to have this place! I do feel like it'll be an interesting thing to look back on, too-- "What were the LGB people doing during all of the woke conversion therapy in the 2010s-2020s?" Yeah, we were here, all right.

[–]julesburm1891 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t know if I’d say I was a TRA, but I accepted TRA dogma unquestioningly. Sure, I feel dumb for buying any of it for a second. But, I think of it like this: at least I woke up. Truly dumb people will go to their graves buying this BS.

You woke up. You’re not an idiot. It’s definitely not fun being one of the “villains,” but this nonsense is going to come crashing down sooner or later. When that happens, you’re on the side that will be remembered as sane and courageous.

[–][deleted] 24 insightful - 6 fun24 insightful - 5 fun25 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

He hung a huge trans flag over his bed.

wtf that's creepy lol

My friends are having conversations about genital preferences, and talking about how awful it is when gay men turn down other men for having vaginas.

I wonder if these guys have ever put their mouth where their money is and sucked on a pussy?

[–]chazzstrong 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was never that bad, but I WAS a lot more "accepting" ( read: critically silent ) about trans rights and all that jazz, being as how I had a friend in college who transitioned. However the more 'mainstream' and twisted the message got, the more I started to question, and eventually realized people who actually suffer from dysphoria are transexuals, and transgenderism is a whole different thing entirely.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Fair play to you for waking up. Sounds like you’ve had a rough journey compared to mine. I peaked in 2016. I continued to support trans rights for three more years after that, but I was becoming less supportive. So here’s my journey:

At the start of 2016, I was very woke in hindsight. I was all for politically incorrect jokes, which I still support, but I was in favour of my country’s ridiculous self ID law that came into effect the previous year. I also supported recognising non-binary gender identities. I even believed that children should be allowed to transition. Why was I so foolish? I was reading PinkNews, Gay Star News and LGBTQNation and I believed their articles without question. My critical thinking skills were still in development back then. I even bought into the lie that "preferences are bad m'kay", though I was quiet about it. But 2016 was the year I started waking up. Surprisingly, my first redpill wasn’t caused by the behaviour of TRAs, but the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. All of the intersectionals doubled down on their shaming of gay white men despite most of the victims of the shooting being white or Latino gay men. I was angry.

Around that same month, I started going on r/tumblrinaction. It opened my eyes. I began watching videos on YouTube criticising political correctness. I got exposed to people like Blair White, who is trans, but understands that there are only two genders and that children should not transition. I was already sceptical about letting children transition and recognising non-binary genders, but watching his videos made me feel more comfortable to be openly opposed to non-binary recognition and transgender children. I still supported adults transitioning though.

Also in 2016, debate on Canada’s C-16 Bill was heating up. I realised that bill was dangerous, so I opposed it. But hearing about how cruelly opponents of the law were treated, I peaked. I still supported trans rights, but I was starting to question my support.

In 2017, I went back to college. I joined the pride society and I stopped going after one meeting because all they talked about were gender neutral bathrooms and pronouns. In 2018, I started opposing Ireland’s self ID law after hearing about transgender "women" competing in women’s sports. I was also made aware of how TRAs were treating Arielle Scarcella, which infuriated me. TRAs were also taking over spaces that were meant for gay men and lesbians. TRAs became more entitled, more demanding, more aggressive and more censorious. Also that year, I stopped watching Blaire White. By 2019, I stopped supporting transgender rights completely. Then I watched Mister Metokur's new video on the subject, and read up about the Save James case. It was at this point that I was passed the point of no return. This was before the JK Rowling saga.

Anyway, well done, and welcome to our sub.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Reasonable trans people like Blaire White who have also fully transitioned and fully pass and don't bully women and gays should just have their proper pronouns used for the sake of clarity. Though obviously born of the male sex and always will be of the male sex, at a certain point it gets confusing pretending that she's still a man. She's a proper transexual woman, just use she, or even they. Blaire White's no he anymore.

[–]diapason 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Really? IMO it's more clear to use sex-based pronouns, just comes more naturally/intuitively. Different for everyone I guess

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Yeah but it causes confusion in this case. Blaire White is a transexual woman, nothing about her (or them if you prefer) gives anyone any indication that they are or were a man, they have no penis anymore, it's quite pointless to still use he, a bit nonsensical when you look at her. I don't have all the answers but this is just what makes sense to me.

[–]julesburm1891 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Blaire White still has a cock and balls.

[–]purrvana 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup and Blaire recently went off hormones to try and produce sperm to have a baby.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)


[–]our_team_is_winning 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

nothing about her (or them if you prefer) gives anyone any indication that they are or were a man

We've had threads on Blaire before and so much of it is lighting and makeup. Also, he projects a very pornified image of a woman. If he still had his original nose, he would never fool anyone. I don't dislike him. I feel bad for him. At first glance you see a small nose, big "flip flip flip" hair, tons of makeup, huge inflated lips -- you think female porn star. But look closer in natural lighting or with his makeup off. And he has no idea what it was like to grow up female.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's just weird imo. I'll stick to "they" at least. There are transexual trans men who look like the most manly men you've ever seen and I'd feel ridiculous calling them "she" just because they are female in sex. I don't exactly know where the line is without dragging in stereotypes (then you get into muddy territory of who gets to be a "Real" trans person and you end up where we are now and I get that) but I think there is a line, somewhere, somehow, even if I don't know exactly where.

[–]our_team_is_winning 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel like the very few, like say Candy Darling of Warhol fame, could make us say well, you know, he's not hurting anyone, so just call him "she" and let it go. But now that there's such an outbreak of this, it's been ruined for everyone. To me, if the person depends on heavy makeup, certain clothes, and putting on a performance in order to "pass," then it's a theatrical performance. A woman with short hair who can grow a beard, I can see people saying "he." Find me a man with short hair, no makeup, just a t-shirt on, and tell me you see a "she."

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again, I'm not gonna pretend I know exactly where the line is.

[–]zerosis[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree, I find people like Buck Angel, Mars, Rose of Dawn and Scott Newgent are on the forefront of the fight for reality, and I am truly appreciative of them for that. I think that when I first heard of transgendered people a decade ago, I assumed they were all similar, reasonable and empathetic people who are going through something painful and decided to medically change their bodies to alleviate their anguish. But I woke up to the truth that the TRA movement is completely overtaken with authoritarian, anti-science radicals who promote delusion and actively advocate against women's rights.

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No one has to "pretend" he's still a man. Robert never stopped being a man. I'm not gonna call him a "she" just because he put more effort into turning himself into a caricature of a women than other men.

[–]bastetkat 23 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I blindly believed in their ideology but I wasn’t like your typical TRA on twitter/tumblr shoving it down other people’s throats. I’ve always been a live and let live type of person, so I fully supported the T community because I thought they just wanted to be left alone, be happy, and live their life like everyone else. Oh boy was I wrong lol

[–]JulienMayfair 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was never a TRA, but I bought into the idea that trans people were basically a tiny and harmless minority. Then, after 2014, the onslaught of demands began, especially the language policing, and I thought, "These people are really angry and crazy."

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I was never full on TRA but I accepted "people can change sex" without question when I was younger, which I still feel shitty about. But once I met real trans people my opinion quickly dropped.

[–]julesburm1891 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Same. I spent time with trans people in real life and was very quickly thinking, “now wait just a goddam minute.”

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s funny how it’s the opposite of gay people. Knowing someone who is gay and seeing their humanity, personhood, and struggles is generally the most common reason people changed their mind for the better about gay rights. It’s the exact opposite for trans. Interacting with trans people is what peaks people. The main people who go TRA from a trans person being in their life are adults who know a “trans kid.” And it’s easier to support supposedly transsexual kids than to believe your friend or family member who is their parent is acting monstrously or being deliberately mislead by professionals and self-interested adult activists to catastrophic effect.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Did you think science was magic or something?

[–]julesburm1891 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

More like I accepted the whole “science supports that brains are sexed and some people get the wrong body for their brain” argument that TRAs peddle. (I understand now that it’s no where near certain that brains are even sexed, let alone that people are born in the wrong body.) I knew transwomen were male and knew that wouldn’t change. I assumed they would act vaguely like women though because they had women’s brains. (Sounds dumb even typing it now.) Then, every transwoman I encountered was simply the worst, most boorish type of man with weird ideas about women. They just happened to be wearing dresses and garish makeup.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(Sounds dumb even typing it now.)

Hey, it sounds convincing enough to have fooled a ton of people, including a bunch of scientifically trained professionals who should have known WAY better. I wouldn't blame yourself :)

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same here. I met a "nonbinary" person and the illusion just shattered. It's bizzare to interact with a male who's taking female hormones and isn't at all feminine. I kept wondering if they had any idea what women irl were like (they are depressed, socialise 90% online, and don't have many friends irl) but now I realise that that isn't the point.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Did you think science is magic and people can literally change their sex?

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can't speak for the person you replied to, but there are definitely people using psuedoscience and misrepresenting facts to make it seem like the scientific community is in agreement that it is literally possible to change sexes. Since most people don't have firsthand experience or knowledge of "transition" and "sex reassignment" they take it as fact because they don't know they're being lied to.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, it was just taught to me at some point that "sometimes men become women and women become men" and I didn't question it, 'cause I was a dumb kid. Never really thought about it, until my late teens and I had the displeasure of actually interacting with trans people... who did NOT magically change sex and, some of them didn't even want to...

[–]BritishbulldogUndecided if Radfem or just TERF 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was quietly accepting- even had an argument with my Dad about how using preferred pronouns is common decency. Then a few months later men in women’s sport peaked me really hard and I’ve basically been GC for around a year now. Can’t believe I was so blind.

[–]Lesbianese 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Was a hardcore TRA, got trans'd as a kid. Slowly began desisting in my mid/late teens, embarrassingly clung to the "nonbinary woman" label for months out of fear of cruelty from TRAs. By the time I had completely desisted, so had my best friend, which made it really easy to work through it. Had been reading Kiwi Farms threads for a while at this point but was still too woke to read any thread that was specifically a trans lolcow until Yaniv, I think. Read a bunch of AGP threads, realized there were a ton of fetishists in the trans community and snowballed from there.

Pretty firmly anti trans now, I don't believe in treating trans like what they identify as even if they "pass". Just because you're a man with a fuck ton of cosmetic surgery or a woman with too much testosterone, doesn't make you the opposite sex. Think they need therapy, not surgery.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Really interesting to hear your perspective. I'm so glad you were able to desist and make it out, dude.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Man I just somehow never bought into this shit for a second. I've always been too much of a feminist.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's easy to talk yourself into believing something when you already know you'll be socially shunned and judged a bad person by all your peers if you don't.

Joys of going to school with a bunch of TRAs in the flesh. :)

[–]our_team_is_winning 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

<I'm afraid that I'm not going to be able to meet any other gay men who haven't bought into this shit. >

But how many gay men do you know who are actively dating women posing as gay men?

Talk to anyone Gen X or older. I'm Gen X, and as a group, everyone I bring this topic up to dismisses the whole trans thing as "freaks" -- only my most Virtue Signaling Woke Gen X friend is obsessed that they're all seriously gender dysphoric (totally dismisses AGP as fantasy). This Trans Koolaid thing is mostly a Millennial/ Gen Z thing. Possibly (please!) when they grow up (not sure "kidults" ever do?) they will wise up?

[–]diapason 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wasn't ever really a TRA, like I never promoted it on social media or anything, but I did buy into the ideology when I first heard about it since I assumed at first that it was progressive and advocating for a truly marginalized group. I remember I even corrected people a couple times about using the 'wrong' pronouns to refer to a transgender person because "It'S jUsT PoLiTe" (in my defense, I was thirteen), even though preferred pronouns take a lot of mental effort to use lol. I had a lot of cognitive dissonance about the ideology since there were a lot of contradictions, especially when it came to sexism, and I never bought that you could literally change sex or the "'genital preferences' are problematic" bullshit, but I did at first buy into the concept of gender identity existing but being distinct from sex and that transgender people were a marginalized group. I stopped believing in all that a few years ago after multiple peers became trans or non-binary, and I noticed that the conservatives I knew accepted transgenderism more readily than homosexuality/bisexuality, and saw the absurdity of what was going on with mainstream feminism pretending that it was gender identity rather than sex that was the reason women were subject to misogyny, and was aware of the fact that transgender people didn't exist until a few decades ago so the claims of there being an entrenched prejudice against them made no sense, but I just stayed out of it as much as I could. It wasn't until a few months ago though that I started thinking about and looking into it more deeply and realized the full extent of the harm being done by the ideology.

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

A guy I knew in highschool transitioned, and that was the first experience i had with the whole thing. I tried really hard to be supportive and encouraging (I was a teenager, we all make bad/cowardly choices) but they still freaked when I screwed up their pronouns. I also saw them crucifying their aunt on facebook who was just trying to be supportive of them but made a tiny lexicographical mistake (and all their woke friends dogpiled the poor woman for "hate") and I decided to keep my distance to the extreme.

A few years later on reddit someone told me my repulsion to the term "boypussy" on account of it attributing a biological female reality to men was flawed, because not all men are masculine (and apparently that makes them women). I was later told its transphobic not to want to date people purely because they're trans. Naturally this peaked me in many different ways.

I guess my dirty old fashioned principles (Sexual autonomy, respect for women and believing GNC doesnt == opposite sex, so last decade) don't mesh well with the new hormone jacked world order.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I also saw them crucifying their aunt on facebook who was just trying to be supportive of them but made a tiny lexicographical mistake

What was the mistake?

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Christ if I can remember, I think it was over 5 years ago now. You know how these types tend to explode over nothing, anyway. All I remember is distinctly saying to myself "Damn this is uncalled for"

[–]denverkrisMy pronouns are Vodka?/Yes!/please 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Was there one specific thing that caused you to "peak"? Other than the women on the gay dating apps?

[–]zerosis[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, it was a lot of little things that had built up over time. I've been sexually harassed by fujoshi types, friends came out as trans and then starting promoting the whole 'genital preferences are transphobic' thing, the Contrapoints drama (back when I was still following that channel), the JKR saga, some friends being excommunicated IRL because of refusal to concede to gender identity politics. It was just so many things that built up over time, until it was like a dam broke in my head. I just couldn't do it anymore. I used to feel guilty because couldn't bring myself to be with a man with a vagina/neopenis. I'm so fucking angry that I let myself be manipulated like that. I lost my entire family after I came out as gay, my life was upended because I wanted to be with and love men... real, biological men. Now the same re-conditioning tactics are being used against me again, just re-packaged in a 'woke' box.

[–]CleverNickName 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not an ex-TRA at all, but ... I got here because I had questions that I thought were innocent. I wanted to understand trans identity, in order to be more compassionate. Alright, I don't wanna clap myself on the back too hard, but we know it's everyone's compassion, especially in the LGB communities, that they actively target. I'm probably not very arrogant when admitting I would please not like to be responsible for "literally killing transpeople" every day.

And just looking at the topic, the responses quickly became "Shut the fuck up TERF" and "you only have gay rights because of black transwomen".
I've said it before on saidit, but they could easily have me. I'm not a very clever man. A few teaks to their "logic", more emphasis on kindness and caring for other people, and less "punch a TERF" and "I hope they all get raped", and I'd fucking tatoo their stupid flag on my goddamn forehead.

Instead I'm here. Apart from some questionable topic-adjacent political opinions, the evil LGB bastards or Gender Critical demons have only ever given me answers, and never descended upon "the enemy" with vicious hate and threats of violence. I know where I'm staying.

[–]zerosis[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know what you mean. The absolute frothing-at-the-mouth vitriol leveraged at anyone who questioned TRA ideology was what slowly woke me up to what a weird cult the TRA movement really is. It's just like when I was growing up Southern Baptist, and the church would constantly try to convince us that atheists were the most vile and despicable beings to walk the face of the earth. When you're taught to be that terrified of something, of course you're not going to want to be associated with it. It's a brutally simple but clever trick.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

good thread... I wish I could be more hopeful about where it is all going though.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can see it now, as a 1950s horror movie (that'd be riffed on MST3K): "I Was A Teenage TRA"!

... well, OK; not really. Both the teenage part (GenXer here: was decidedly... MATURE when this trans-shit hit) and the TRA part (my "support" barely got beyond entry-level, thus FAR short of rabid). But, like so many of us, I did have something of a journey to the T-droppin' Promised Land.

Struggled for years, as a good little liberal/leftist/progressive, to be cool with the whole trans-thing... but could never quite shake my discomfort: the sense that this just wasn't right. Which was there from the very beginning. Largely thanks to my pre-existing knowledge that "gender" was not only a bunch of bullshit, but singularly-pernicious bullshit, at that. So how could reinforcing it possibly be a good thing?

Still, I didn't see the true scope of its implications, never mind intentions. Largely because, being so isolated, my knowledge wasn't firsthand; I had to rely on the media for that-- web sites, books, periodicals, TV, radio. Which meant (though I didn't realize it) getting fed the TRA party line. AKA "They Just Want To Pee!" And thus assuming that, despite my certainty that "genderism" could only be wrong (in both senses of the word), "trans" people were less its proponents than its victims... along with everyone else. Trying to negotiate this destructive, all-pervasive ideology as best they could. We all do; we all make compromises. Maybe this is theirs. A way to escape at least some of it. Sure, ideally we'd all just straight-up reject gender-- but for those who lack the imagination, resolve, or courage... this might be the closest they're capable of getting. So we'll simply "agree to disagree".

Accordingly, I was dismissive of the so-called "bathroom bills" when they became a thing in other states. And I admonished myself for seeing "trans" people as their sex-- yet another example, no doubt, of my inability to meet social standards, with that going double for "cool" ones. But still, beneath the veneer of obedience... I always remained uneasy.

Then along came all the stuff that steadily chipped even this veneer away. The quintessential ladyfeelz linebacker-dude threatening a fellow talk-show guest with assault on camera (that I took Ben fucking Shapiro's side over his speaks VOLUMES). Trans Emperor Bruce Jenner and how everyone was expected to admire-- hell, CELEBRATE-- his new clothes. That, on overtly-liberal web sites like We Hunted the Mammoth and Pajiba, anything less than chug-a-lugging trans-Kool Aid would get you shut down INSTANTLY. Then of course the infamous Cotton Ceiling took a fucking sand-blaster to whatever veneer was left.

So... never really a TRA, then. But I still feel implicated, since it wasn't for lack of trying... and even THAT is way too close to comfort for me.

In closing: just wanted to thank you for this post, OP. An important question to ask, thought-provoking (maybe a bit too much in my case, huh?), and also really well-written. I share your distress; hope that knowing you're not alone, and having a place to vent, helps at least a little. :)

[–]zerosis[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you so much for sharing your feelings, I relate to an incredible degree to always having an 'uneasiness' about gender identity politics even at the height of my leftist phase. The Cotton/Jockstrap ceiling was really what put the nail in the coffin for me too, not only feeling myself being erased as a homosexual man, but hearing countless horror stories from lesbians I know, IN REAL LIFE, mind you, not just the huge record posted on GC forums online. I have actually seen lesbians cast out and shunned by their communities (and if you're gay, you often don't have a family outside your community), in a way that mirrored what I'd see in the fundamentalist churches I grew up in, FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN SAYING THEY WOULDN'T DATE SOMEONE WITH A PENIS. This is real fucking life, I'm entrenched in the gay community after all these years and it's happening all around me. I can't really even process how fucked-up and backwards this is, I feel like I'm in grief.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm afraid that I'm not going to be able to meet any other gay men who haven't bought into this shit.

I'd wager every real gay man is NOT into that.

Are you sure your friends are gay? They're not transtrenders who call themselves "gay" because these days it's the cool thing to do (as long as you can switch it off when it's not needed, of course)?

[–]NonimeTired of Explaining Reality to Fuckwits (TERF) 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I had to stop seeing a guy that I had a connection with, because he got so caught up in this 'JKR TERFS evil nazi's' thing and I couldn't keep quiet anymore. He hung a huge trans flag over his bed.

Wtf? Was he trans? Why have a trans flag over his bed?

[–]zerosis[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nope, not trans, he was just REALLY into the whole TRA thing.