all 94 comments

[–]julesburm1891 43 insightful - 5 fun43 insightful - 4 fun44 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

American here. I’m also very worried about what Biden’s win will mean for women and for LGB Americans. Biden and Harris both are deep in TQ rhetoric. We’ve already heard ad nauseam how he hopes to enact the Equality Act within the first 100 days of office, despite the fact that gender identity protections run completely contrary to sex-based protections. Additionally, the fact that Biden and Harris have been supportive of transing kids is very concerning. We’re being set up for loads of kids, a significant portion of whom are LGB, to have their futures and bodies ruined for pseudoscientific dogma. In the best case scenario, there will be strong public backlash to the insanity, but I’m afraid the backlash with drag LGB down with it.

You’re, unfortunately, right though. America sets examples that other nations follow for better or worse. If we go down this path, I’m deeply concerned what it means for my brothers and sisters abroad.

[–]reluctant_commenter 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Additionally, the fact that Biden and Harris have been supportive of transing kids is very concerning. We’re being set up for loads of kids, a significant portion of whom are LGB, to have their futures and bodies ruined for pseudoscientific dogma. In the best case scenario, there will be strong public backlash to the insanity, but I’m afraid the backlash with drag LGB down with it.

Yeah. Also American and same here, I'm worried. I'm extremely curious to see what the landscape will look like in like 5 years even. I hope we're not a ton further down the road of transing children by then...

[–]Eurowoman24 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

don't republicans hold most of the senate seats right now, and doesn't that mean that extreme policies would have a hard time being put in place?

[–]julesburm1891 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

As of yet, there’s 48 Democrat senators, 48 Republicans, and two independents. There are runoff races for the other two seats that will determine the majority.

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It can go either way come January. There are 2 seats in Georgia and it looks like both will have a runoff election in January. Based on current numbers in other states it looks like if one of the 2 go R then they hold the Senate. But there are 2 other races not fully counted yet but are trending Republican.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

MarkTwainiac have good rundown on this here: /s/GenderCritical/comments/6s1v/_/px5x

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Homosexuality is doomed unless Trump wins in the SCOTUS.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This year was the time to put your hatred of Trump aside to think about what's objectively best for LGB people. No other candidate put up any kind of opposition to any of this TQ+ shit. And that's what bothers me. Gays' well-being comes last and we are effectively sacrificed on the altar of neoliberalism.

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

From Joe Biden's First 100 Days:

Guaranteeing transgender students have access to facilities based on their gender identity. On his first day in office, Biden will reinstate the Obama-Biden guidance revoked by the Trump-Pence Administration, which will restore transgender students’ access to sports, bathrooms, and locker rooms in accordance with their gender identity. He will direct his Department of Education to vigorously enforce and investigate violations of transgender students’ civil rights.

And although I cherry picked that one, the rest isn't any better for L G B or Women: https://joebiden.com/lgbtq-policy/

Personally, I'm hoping for lawsuits, lots of lawsuits.

[–]Eurowoman24 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

HOLY FUCK I only had to read the title to see AND AROUND THE WORLD. No no no no don't export that shit here, my god.

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

To me Trump did seem to generally try and stay out of other countries business. Which of course was seen by some as isolationist.

[–]Archie 12 insightful - 7 fun12 insightful - 6 fun13 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Trump tried avoiding to do his job in general, which indeed implies less communication with foreign leaders.

[–]Eurowoman24 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I hope the seats stay republican, the fact that Biden wants to export tq+ craziness to other places is insane.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I voted for Trump and I will support any and all efforts to keep him in office by any means necessary. This is why. The slave party has stabbed gays in the back. And the front. And they are determined to do anything to hold onto power at all costs, even steal the election after trying to undermine the legitimacy of two GOP Presidents at every turn. I will not recognize any President but Donald J. Trump.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

The Democratic party hasn't "stolen" the election, and Donald Trump has done plenty on his own to undermine his own legacy. Your username is also advocating for violence, no different than TRAs who wax nostalgic about "gosh wouldn't it be wonderful to punch TERFs". If I were you I'd strongly question if I were proposing cutting off my own nose to spite my face.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your username is also advocating for violence, no different than TRAs who wax nostalgic about "gosh wouldn't it be wonderful to punch TERFs".

Yeah, that seems concerning...

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

While (along with everyone else here) I too am appalled by the Democrats catering to genderists at the expense of LGB, women, and children, what makes you think that Trump is in our corner? Because despite the familiar adage, the enemy of my enemy is NOT necessarily my friend.

Sure, his administration brought us the so-called "trans ban". But the question is: WHY? Does this actually mean that they oppose "trans" for the same reasons that you do? That WE in this sub do?

No. Not even close. For Trump, the most amoral, selfish, "ethics? what are THOSE???" person who ever lived, it's strictly a matter of pandering to Christian Right-ers (i.e., his political base).

So what do you think THEIR reasons for being anti-trans are? I have a SNEAKING SUSPICION that they don't quite line up 100% with those of someone whose username is "ExecuteHomophobes".

In fact, I'm guessing that it all boils down to: 1.] being fellow rabid genderists, just the "traditional" kind, thus rendering the trans-brand heresy in their eyes; and 2.] thinking that "trans" = gay.

So, basically, they don't want what they view as GNCs, or "fags", contaminating the military with their cooties.

I can almost hear your response, E.H.: "But that's not TRUMP! He doesn't believe any of that shit! In fact, His Orangeness has always been just fine about gay people personally!"

And if you mean that he doesn't hate or fear us LGBs... well, I'd be inclined to agree. Trump's probably not, in the ideological or queers-make-my-skin-crawl sense, a homophobe.

But here's the thing: if there was a proposal to send all of us LGBs to concentration camps sitting before him on the Resolute Desk? And he thought it'd be to his personal advantage to sign it?

He would. In a heartbeat.

So, even if Donald Trump isn't an outright Westboro Baptist Church, gay-bashing, frothing-at-the-mouth homophobe? He will, as the Brits say, do until the homophobe gets here.

Still think that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", then? Well, with this "friend", E.H.... you don't NEED any enemies.

P.S.: My having said all the above (and regarding Trump as a true menace) doesn't mean that I've written you off, E.H.. Quite the opposite, in fact: I'm actually interested in your story. How did you get to this point? What made you give up on the Dems and feel like Trump was your only choice? I ask because so many people here know about trans-tyranny/terrorism firsthand: they've gotten violent threats, lost friends and jobs, maybe even been physically assaulted. Or at least had to fear these possibilities. And also because, isolated as I am... I have not. So I'm always aware that, if I seem to be able to take a more "think-piece" approach to these issues than someone else... it may be partly due to this. That I haven't been personally traumatized yet. So if you haven't been equally lucky, and would like to talk about it... please feel free.

TL;DR: Trump is no friend to LGB, even if the Dems aren't acting much like it either. But I'm not quite ready to dismiss E.H. as a beneath-the-bridge-dweller for wanting to believe otherwise.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If Trump was anywhere near as homophobic as you describe, gay marriage would be history. Gay existence has the bigger current threat to it, and it isn't from the GOP.

2.] thinking that "trans" = gay.

And who is responsible for this state of affairs?

Oh, and either spell my name out if you're going to attack me for it. If you don't think homophobia should be a capital crime, then you can stop pretending you care about it.

[–]bopomofodojo 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

When you run the hegemonic social, cultural, and economic empire, "isolationism" is heresy.

Trump was shit, but he also wasn't starting wars, so...

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gross. And he wants to make the third gender "X" marker a thing; which is directly harmful to intersex people. Because as long as it exists, it won't just be "nonbinary" people self-identifying with it - it will be used to mark visibly intersex children at birth as "others" or "its", which is a horrible way to grow up. Hell even some people want to raise non-intersex kids as "neutral", which imo, is a form of child abuse.

As someone who has lived my whole life being thrown into an "other" category I fail to see how it's positive in any way. There is no justification to having a third sex/gender marker.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's basically another way to enable vain heterosexual leftist degenerates to mentally scar children for life.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

/s/GenderCritical/comments/6s1v/_/px5x

We're screwed. Are all you Trump haters happy now? You hate him so much you chose a guy who went from calling Gays a "security risk" to calling for potentially Gay children to be transed.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 22 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

I’m not worried about Biden. He’ll be out of office within a year. He’s four years older than Trump and has signs of being dementia. I don’t see him sitting in the Oval Office for long. But I am worried about Kamal Harris. And her stance on transgender children is definitely worrying. Yes, this has been happening in Trump's America as well, but this is going to get worse under Harris. And yes, there could very well be backlash. And we will suffer some of it, because LGB activists have blindly supported the TQ ideology, as well as other aspects of neoliberalism.

However, it does look like there could be a schism within the Democratic Party, which could split it in two. If that happens, one of the new parties will definitely be strongly in favour of the TQ ideology. The other new party could still be convinced to oppose the ideology, especially by voters who agree with most of the Democrats' policies but don’t want children getting sex changes or allowing men into women’s toilets and changing rooms. I can imagine that there are a lot of these people out there, and they could have enough leverage to pressure the new party to oppose the ideology otherwise these voters would go to the Republicans. There are some Republicans who support gay rights, and if they get more influence, this could also put additional pressure on the new party. I cannot guarantee that there will be a schism, but if there is going to be on, a Harris presidency will certainly accelerate that schism.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I also read on her Wikipedia article that Harris supports (male) prisoners transitioning. Which... even if I wasn't against "transitioning" as a whole, getting those expensive surgeries and hormones for CONVICTED PRISONERS of all people, especially when there are shortages of HRT for people with health conditions that actually need it - it seems like a fucked up priority. Frankly I couldn't care less about whether or not a prisoner feels like he's a "woman on the inside", especially if he is a convicted sex offender/abuser/murderer.

Yeah, I figure if there is a party split then Republicans will win the popular vote again. I think some right-wing people can be reasonable, however I just don't agree with their typical stances on non-identity politics like healthcare for example. So, at least for me, it's a constant battle of which evil is lesser. I'm glad I don't have voting rights in my current country because honestly I don't know if I'd feel good picking any candidate.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Regular people in USA does not have proper healthcare, and then convicted criminals and prisoners will get full transitions and payment of their medication on the taxpayers cost. Everyone in USA is so opposing taxes being used on healthcare, and they are fine with this?

[–]Eurowoman24 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

imagine male prisoners getting to transition then put in with female prisoners... I mean does no one else see the problem here?

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Why do you think they'll have to transition? https://apnews.com/article/prisons-gender-identity-california-gavin-newsom-archive-14cd954b06360d21349b77233318369e

The law Newsom signed Saturday says officers must ask inmates privately during the intake process if they identify as transgender, nonbinary or intersex. Those inmates can then request to be placed in a facility that houses either men or women.

Yes, officials can block it if they have security or safety concerns, but what is the chance they'll actually care.

[–]Eurowoman24 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

to gain access to female prisoners for sex. No most won't likely care which is a damn shame.

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry, I meant in the context of the article there is no need to transition in any official manner, just state your 'gender' and voila you're now a woman prisoner.

[–]Eurowoman24 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

oh god it's even worse then I thought...

[–]Shadow_Lurker 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Everyone in USA is so opposing taxes being used on healthcare, and they are fine with this?

The US is such an interesting country, let me tell you...

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The problem is no one cares about reality, only their shortsighted perception of reality. People aren't wearing masks correctly anywhere. Regardless of the question of whether or not masks work at all, people are 1000% guaranteed, fight me, wearing the masks in a way that makes them either ineffective, or will end up spreading the disease more than blocking it, such as when they constantly readjust the mask, touching their face, which spreads more germs than the mask could block. The mask requirement in US states/stores isn't to protect anyone, it's to make people think they're being protected, which I think actually is worse than doing nothing because now people are in a false sense of security about the whole thing.

We don't care about not spending tax dollars on stupid shit, only what the media has told us is stupid shit, everything else is fair game. No one cares about protecting rights, only the rights the media has said need to be protected, everything else could disappear without notice.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Regardless of the question of whether or not masks work at all, people are 1000% guaranteed, fight me, wearing the masks in a way that makes them either ineffective, or will end up spreading the disease more than blocking it, such as when they constantly readjust the mask, touching their face, which spreads more germs than the mask could block.

Now that you touched the subject, it's interesting to point out how many people believe in the misguided notion that all masks are made equal. A cloth mask will never offer the same kind of protection that a cirurgical one provides, never.

Hell, depending on the fabric used in the manufacturing of the mask it's less risky not to wear one lol

No one cares about protecting rights, only the rights the media has said need to be protected, everything else could disappear without notice.

Case in point, this pandemic has been a breeding ground for tyranny everywhere, with governments using it as a excuse to peddle contact tracing apps that collect extensive data on the lives of people.

The question is: will they delete it after the pandemic?

The most likely answer is no, as like history teaches us, the ones that gain power are always unwilling to lose it.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I just hate when people try to compare surgeons wearing surgical masks during surgery to some dumbass wearing (and repeatedly touching) a bandana while grocery shopping. The two situations have nothing in common, and the bandana may be doing more harm than good. Rather than looking at what will actually happen if a rule, "masks required," gets implemented, they're looking at an ideal that will never happen in America. They assume that simple rule will magically turn everyone into a robotic sheep that does what it is told correctly or into a Karen that screams about "muh rights" but it isn't that simple, and every law, rule, or policy must be analyzed to ensure it doesn't backfire or create more problems than it solves

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She's a narc in addition to all of that.

[–]reluctant_commenter 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

However, it does look like there could be a schism within the Democratic Party, which could split it in two.

Unfortunately that seems very unlikely. Wish it would happen, though, two-party system we have here sucks.

[–]julesburm1891 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Really, both parties should split. Most people’s actual beliefs aren’t being represented right now.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally agree.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Whichever party splits first would immediately lose future elections due to the way the mathematics work in current election system. Plurality voting is broken and encourages giant parties to form where all voices are blended into a horrible mishmash that eventually results in only 2 major dominant parties leading the elections. The first step to representing all beliefs in a nuanced way is election reform to a system that does not have "spoiler" candidates and thus allows many similar parties to run in an election without ruining their individual chances (approval voting, score voting, etc).

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know my beliefs certainly aren't. The GOP is as good as it gets for now, and I never thought I'd say this. The Libertarian and Green parties are of no help in this regard.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know how you feel. Every government we’ve had in Ireland since 1932 has involved one of the two “centre-right” parties of Fianna Fial and Fine Gael. I use quotation marks because both of those parties are neoliberal establishment parties that are now pandering to TRAs. Lately most people are sick of them, but the biggest opposition to those parties is Sinn Féin, who have also been subverted by TRAs. Only the far right parties are against this insidious TQ-supremacist ideology.

[–][deleted] 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

I think that if Americans (and any one else living in a western country) want to make change on this issue then they need to start speaking out about it, but in a way that involves having a proper discussion— not by bullying and fiercely lobbying like the TRAs have done. I think if people start to see that LGB people and women are not buying into this shit, have genuine concerns, and are reasonable people then the whole thing will start to collapse. I am also hoping that all the trans-trender kids will one day grow up out of the trend and realise the bullshit that's being fed to them, and hopefully that will create change too.

Edit: I think that if Biden is smart he will work to calm the left down as well as the right. Trump played into crazy on the right and that polarised people, Biden would be wise to aim for the centre not the far 'woke' left.

Edit: got right mixed up with left.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I agree and the strategy I've been employing is saying that we need to be able to talk openly about these issues and concerns people have with these issues. I'm focusing largely on the censorship aspect. How big changes are happening to law that people aren't aware of because it's happening silently and without debate. How that's different from the gay rights movement and how we need to be able to talk openly about the potential changes. Asking why feminists feel OK silencing and trashing 16-year-old female athletes who are losing scholarship opportunities to male athletes when those male athletes went from being mediocre to setting state records when they moved from the boys' to girls' division. Or just asking do we really think "hatred" and "bigotry" is the only reason these girls may have questions or issues with what's happening. Or by pointing out that today Mike Pence can say that he identifies as a woman, and under Kamala Harris's own policies, she would have to recognize him as the first woman Vice President. Basically taking the emphasis off of trangenderism itself and focusing on the policy solutions and politics. But then again, my social circle is particularly educated and filled with a lot of lawyers so they are the type to think more about these things.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If I could upvote this more then I would :) I just finished law school, so yay another law person! Have you read these? http://archive.is/rFjqZ and https://www.iglyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IGLYO_v3-1.pdf I think they're fascinating for the insight they give about how what the movement really is. I absolutely think that the trans movement has cleverly gotten itself into a place where they can mention the word trans and that will give them a free pass to advocate for all sorts of terrible ideas. The tricky part will be dismantling it from this pedestal.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sorry your life sucks now, but welcome to our ranks. I'm a few years ahead of you. I just saved the Denton's doc the other day for later reading because it occurred to me that as a lawyer I'm in one of the better positions to understand it and it's been touted as a lynchpin. I'm also curious on a meta level about the choice of Dentons as counsel. It has a very acquisitive global footprint but not really in the U.S. so much.

I am interested in seeing how my greater circle engages with trans issues or not. There's mostly silence so far outside of gay people. No cancellation of JKR happened across my social media networks, for example. No listing of pronouns outside of gay people. And there's a lot of liberal feminism being touted. So I don't know to what extent these women are totally in the dark about what is happening or if they see some stuff is off and they're deliberately keeping quiet, when they don't keep quiet about any other social justice issue. One person I wonder about is someone I know who clerked for Judge Chatigny, the D. Conn. judge presiding over the Connecticut girl's track/trans case. She's a big feminist but her mouth is totally shut on gender. I know she looks at my insta stories though. I've gone quietly terven to test the waters. I'm acting more like a lighthouse now than an activist, and I'm not suited to activism anyway. We'll see what happens.

If you ever wanna chat about law stuff, hit me up. No idea why that would be fun or interesting for you, and I'm kind of a begrudging lawyer anyway, but I'm always happy to pass along the nuggets I've learned along the way. But then again, you could possibly learn more from instagram memes about legal practice lol.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

That's my problem with radical feminism and most anti trans crowds. See, I get the latter, I really do. I'm insanely angry at transgender activists for what they have done. But unfortunately being emotional about it isn't helpful.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

I don't think it's so much that they are emotional, it's more that many will fall back into denying the existence of transgender people and any legitimate need to transition, which is ultimately transphobic. I think however, there is a wide, and unexplored discussion beyond this that can look at the bizarre and dangerous aspects of queer theory and the online forums that disseminate it, or the erosion of women's rights, LGB rights, and children's rights at the expense of transgender rights. Personally I don't think this has to be an "either or" type of situation, however if we refuse to engage in discussion and polarize each other then that discussion will not occur. I would hope that LGB activism (and I fully support a split at the moment) would highlight the genuine and deep concerns with trans rights activism, however I think it needs to be done in a way that doesn't alienate transgender persons or deny their existence.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

or deny their existence

When I answered to transman that I am not interested in vaginas the answer from them was "you denying my existence and not thinking I am fully a man".

Translesbians are even worse on this case, and much more agressive with statements even on minor problems. Same with sports, not allowing them compete against women in Rugby is "denying our existence" by few trans athletes.

So almost no discussion can be done with them this way, because any disagreement with them is "denying my existence". Like check reposts of Ian: https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1325030492681494528/retweets/with_comments

He asked to debate without cancelling, and got 1000 retweets with "we can't debate my exitence! Debating on any trans issues means I don't exist!".

How can you meaningfully debate with such an attitude from opponents? I am always trying, but it never goes well.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly, I'm not too concerned about them— they're just in the crazy little internet bubble. As you said you can't engage with TRAs on this, they're so far into their own bullshit that it's impossible to reason with them. I'm more concerned with engaging the average person, who probably has no clue about trans activism, and just thinks it's about helping suicidal teens or helping someone be their true selves, because the actual TRA agenda is so much more and so much worse than that.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not just internet people though. I have known insane TRAs in real life and been their friends. Hell I used to BE a TRA (although not an insane one). I protested with friends in support of a trans bathroom bill for my state, b/c I thought it was just about "being yourself" and protecting trans people from violence. Back b/f I learned about the insane parts of their ideology. I'd wager about 70% of the crowds protesting with us were people trying to be kind and thinking they were protecting trans people from violence, and the other 30% were deep in the gender sauce ideology. The point is these people exist in real life, not just on the internet.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Tough shit. I refuse to recognize the delusions of a self-hating gay man who hates himself so much he would rather be a woman than gay. Nor should real women be forced to recognize them either.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My problem is they don't go far enough.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Far enough with what?

If you're talking about trans; sure. They don't push back against them enough, they still kiss "homosexual transsexual" fetishist ass because apparently getting off over "becoming a woman" is fine as long as you're a gay man, in their eyes.

But they go WAY too far when it comes to hating everyone else. Like, the only way they could get more extreme in that regard is if they got off their asses and took their BS to the real world, and actually started being violent. Fortunately that'll never happen, because they're keyboard warriors and have a victim complex, but still

[–]kwallio 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think the backlash is coming. There are signs from the UK that people have had enough of this nonsense, and since it was never as accepted here are over in the UK I think it'll be gone pretty quickly.

Notice how Target almost immediately started having financial problems when they went 100% in with the transgender stuff. Businesses won't stand for suffering at the bottom line if they have to have mixed sex bathrooms by law.

[–]reluctant_commenter 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed. I haven't heard much about what happened with Target, do you know more about that / have more examples by chance?

Also, even if companies don't interface directly with the general public, I'm sure they'll be more leery on trans issues as the threat of lawsuits arises.

[–]kwallio 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I thought it was pretty clear but snopes says no - but its still kind of unclear why Target has not been doing very well.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/targets-stock-transgender-bathroom-policy/

Snopes says it didn't impact the bottom line and target maintains that the bathroom policy had no effect on the bottom line. But it was doing pretty well previously even with Amazon so dunno.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Is there signs in the UK beyond "a small group of British radfems" though? Because no offense but I wouldn't take radfems/gendercritical to be a sign that an entire country is "waking up", they are a very small, vocal, toxic minority.

I can't be certain but aside from the BBC supposedly removing Mermaids from it's website, I can't say I've seen much backlash from the UK that wasn't directly tied to the radfem/gendercritical movement

I can only hope that money, if not human rights, drives people to stop. I'm homosexual yet I boycott anything with strong LGBT or even gay virtue signalling. If your business makes a fake woke speech about tolerance and acceptance and "the LGBTQ+ community" I will not buy from you, I will go elsewhere if I can.

I've seen people online criticize corporations cashing in on Pride, which seems like a step in the right direction, but I don't think it's "nobody wants you to support this shit", it's more that "Us LGBTQ+ are angry that you only set your twitter icon to rainbow and didn't donate a large sum to trans women RIGHT NOW"

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is there signs in the UK beyond "a small group of British radfems" though? Because no offense but I wouldn't take radfems/gendercritical to be a sign that an entire country is "waking up", they are a very small, vocal, toxic minority.

They were able to stop new version of Gender Recognition Act where sex was replaced with gender identity and gender stereotypes. So at least something they can do. UK women in general are more feminist-leaning and more agressive in achieving their goals than women in most of the world, thought.

[–]marmorsymphata 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

As happy as I am for Trump to get gone, this is a cultural disaster. The win has proven to them that cancellation and violence can get you what you want in America. You may behave as outrageously as you like and it will not stop you from winning. So let's hope they don't take hints from the riots and start burning down terf businesses.

[–]julesburm1891 25 insightful - 4 fun25 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

The reaction to this has been ridiculous. Is Trump a crass, incompetent fool? Yes. But what did he really do while in office? People are out in the streets acting like it’s Paris circa 1945 when all we’ve actually dealt with was four years of someone’s drunk uncle blustering on at Thanksgiving.

So much of American society is just petulance anymore.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, exactly that. I don't like him, he's an idiot, but I was thankful that he didn't do much because he was just so full of itself.

In both the US and worldwide, politics and elections seem like "well, do you want rambling right wing lunatics who deny science and preach about God, or do you want left wing lunatics who deny science and preach about identity politics?"

And of course, there's no option to choose "neither" realistically, as alternative parties/candidates can realistically never gather enough support. And people call you a dirty centrist too.

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These days those of us dirty centrists can't vote 'for' anyone, we simply have to vote against the one we dislike more.

[–]marmorsymphata 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's just what happens when people have been isolated for a year. It blew up the riots too. Neurologically speaking, social isolation is bad for you. It only takes about 2 weeks in solitary confinement for a person's brain chemistry to start changing, and not that much longer to develop permanent symptoms. Obviously lockdown is different, but I feel the need to emphasize how brain-scrambling isolation can be for people not accustomed to it.

In any case no one has had social permission to celebrate about anything for almost a year, so all of it is being dumped into this one day. I just wonder if anyone else will ever realize they've been behaving like headcases.

[–]emptiedriver 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

he's been defunding and breaking down a lot of government departments and putting incompetents in charge - pretty much what he said he would and what followers think they want, but it's worrying. Cutting oversight or regulation for pollution or drug manufacture or working conditions or international affairs, bc the "market will sort it out" but of course, the market won't do shit, rich people will control things as they like, and we'll be in a lot of trouble. I have a relative who works for a state dept in eastern europe who was very worried about the whole agency just basically being dissolved under Trump as it had already been reduced significantly, and it already had a real impact on the stability of the democracy where he was living.

It's a nice fantasy that without a government everything will just fall into place, but in reality, you either put the rich in power or set things up for war. That's what Trump was doing.

The Dems are full of issues, but at least they have a basic understanding of political science.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They already started burning Harry Potter books over this. That was the line.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The enactment of TRA bullshit by Biden/Kamala will only accelerate their inevitable downfall when shit hits the fan, even if more people end up suffering in the long run.

The thing is that they won't be able to ignore detransitioners forever, or the perverts and fetishists for that matter.

My prediction is that once shit hits the fan Biden/Kamala, the TRAs and their enablers will pretend they never supported child transition or self-id to begin with. Mermaids is already pulling this shit in the UK, so it's not farfetched to conclude the same will happen in the US.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Unfortunately I think detransitioners might be too few and thus easy to disregard. Much like how, despite a lot of intersex people suffering thanks to TRA crap, forced "sex reassignment" at birth and fucked up hormone "treatments", nobody really hears them or cares because it's a small minority that easily gets drowned out. And detransitioners are already dismissed with "They were never trans to begin with so it's different" and "Radfem propaganda!"

Wait, what? Are Mermaids backpedaling? This is news to me.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unfortunately I think detransitioners might be too few and thus easy to disregard.

The numbers are irrelevant, but the repercussion of these cases isn't. Media is already giving attention to the detransitioners, even if little, so it's something. A single high profile case can have a domino effect that can drastically change the public perception regarding transgenderism as a whole, and considering this is the first generation to be hooked into this shit, things are sure to get interesting in about 5 years or so.

Are Mermaids backpedaling?

Yes, they are.

A while ago, the UK overhauled directives related to diversity education and one of the first things to go was TRA bullshit, including but not limited to:

  • Telling gender non-conforming that they are transgender.

  • The Barbie to Gi Joe gender spectrum (yes, really) as a standard to explain transgenderism to kids.

  • The 'born in the wrong body' bullshit.

Mermaids, as expected, didn't like this very much, because it basicly made all of their material useless. They are now pretending ignorance, crediting all of their old shit to the 'transphobics' and 'TERFs', including all of the things listed previously above.

[–]JulienMayfair 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Look, the TQ+ rhetoric pisses me off as much as anyone, but this is a cultural issue that politicians are caught up in whether they like it or not. All this shit is based on mistakes WE made, going back 30 years.

We accepted and used terms like LGBT. We're the ones who allowed our organizations and our cultural capital to be hijacked. We let TRAs pull our corporate donors out from under us. We allowed Judith Butler and Queer Theory to define how we are talked about in academic circles. We didn't recognize the threat in time, and even if we did, we didn't do enough about it.

Organizations that claim to represent us are the ones telling the Democratic Party what their positions should be, and they are policing the entire party.

Stuffing this genie back in the bottle was never going to be easy, and based on what younger LGB think, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

[–]Shadow_Lurker 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We let TRAs pull our corporate donors out from under us.

This would have happened whatever we liked it or not, as these organizations are only interested on profit and nothing else.

Let's face it: LGB aren't as profitable as the T, there's no industry to be built around LGB questions and the big donors know that.

[–]JulienMayfair 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The corporate donors are simply continuing to support organizations like HRC and GLAAD, organizations that formerly served LGB interests. It's the organizations like HRC and GLAAD that have shifted their mission. The corporate donors just continue to write checks. We know that the HRC and GLAAD have shifted their missions to keep the money coming in, but to the rest of the world, they are simply the face of the LGBTQ movement.

And even among the LGB, they still have strong support.

[–]reluctant_commenter 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this discussion. This has been on my mind a lot over the past few days.

People on this sub often seem confident that the trans movement is close to burning itself out, and well...

I don't know about that. What I think people here are aware of, is that we're at the beginning of the end-- a years-long stretch and inevitable fight that's going to take some time. But the fact that some countries are starting to alter their trans-happy stances is a good sign.

if America stayed with a Republican government, as shitty as that would be, maybe it would. But now I think that it will be reignited and the trans/LGBT+ movement will be given fuel to do more damage.

It's possible, but personally I think that route would have just prolonged the inevitable. Having a Republican administration gives trans rights activists more of an excuse to pretend to be martyrs (claiming parallel to the gay rights movement).

I agree with most of what you said, except for part of this:

Sorry but I don't think groups like "LGB alliance" (who sit on their asses wanking to Stonewall and don't give a fuck about people in need) and radical feminism (angry extremists) are going to cut it. If LGBT+ stuff really gets worse, both in America and the rest of the world, then niche groups will not help, it needs to be a non-group affiliated effort from as many people as possible.

Having a non-affiliated mass group of people who are aware of the dangers of gender ideology and are against transing children, etc., sounds lovely. But where are we going to find these people? I try to convert a few people I know personally, and while that's always heartening to see, we just don't have a sizeable enough amount of people on board yet for the message to spread organically like that. While there are definitely flaws in the groups you described, there's a reason many successful movements throughout history were led by organized groups-- it helps to have a rallying point. At least until we can get enough people aware that the views are mainstream.

Great post overall, though. And yes Biden is pretty centrist, lol. But, that itself is a telling point: he's centrist and he's had an extensive history of appeasing corporate interests and wealthy oligarchs. The medicalization of trans people is lucrative, and I wouldn't be surprised if he will be a staunch trans ally not because he's progressive/liberal/cares at all but because he's bought by the machine. Might not make a difference, it's still an uphill battle either way-- but interesting information.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Are we, though? I mean I used to think that too, but now I don't think so. Yes some people are speaking up, but unfortunately it tends to be people who are generally batshit, aggressive and toxic, regardless, and those of us who aren't tend to keep our mouths shut lest we get shunned and blocked from everything. I still think too many people are blindly "tolerant" of trans/LGBT+ right now and it's still allowing to continue. Although some good things occasionally happen, like the BBC in the UK apparently dropping Mermaids from their website (?) or something like that. But the mere fact Mermaids not only hasn't been shut down for child abuse, but that it's still considered a charity, is insanely depressing.

Well, that's kind of my point, though, you're not supposed to "rally" people as much as just spread the truth & promote fact checking and pro-science beliefs (Which doesn't just relate to the trans issue, it relates to EVERYTHING right about now. So many people blindly believe easily disproven fact just because they're gullible.)

We shouldn't be trying to convert or rally people because that's the same as organizing a group, and like I said, that's just going to get people who oppose it branded as a "hate group." Plus look at what these "groups" of the past have done:

  • LGB alliance have sat on their ass, begged for donations, and acted high and mighty without doing anything. Similar groups do the same, preaching about how THEY'RE not like the icky trans because they're gay and gay is COOL and RATIONAL but they don't do anything beyond pat themselves on the back. (Even though the gay and lesbian communities have a lot to answer for, in my opinion)

  • Radical feminists are extremists who hate way more things than just gender identity

  • Right wing LGBT get shunned for being right wing before they even have a chance to say anything, anything they say gets deflected with "but you're right wing/extremist christian/racist/sexist etc"

From what I see, attempting to unite under a group just doesn't work. It creates a toxic echo chamber, it doesn't become productive, it just becomes a circlejerk of "We're better than X because we're Y" and nothing gets done.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm terrified by what his (though, probably Harris' once Biden "mysteriously" disappears) policies will do to us. I'm hoping that the companies I apply to after college won't go regressive any more than these policies force them to, and I'm not forced to lie about or otherwise hide who I am just to survive in the workforce.

You mention that Intersex individuals receive discrimination from the LGBTQ+, is this from the LGB or the TQ+? I can understand that if being intersex comes with medical issues, then convincing people that it isn't a disorder in need of medical help can have disastrous consequences, but the only thing I've heard about LGBTQ+ doing bad things to intersex individuals was just misinformation, not direct discrimination?

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 14 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

You mention that Intersex individuals receive discrimination from the LGBTQ+, is this from the LGB or the TQ+?

It's both.

TQ+ uses intersex to promote trans and nonbinary, saying that we're a third sex/variation in sex (untrue) therefore trans people are the sex they "identify as", or that sex isn't real, and that "nonbinary people are valid" because intersex people are supposedly a nonbinary sex.

But LGB has been equally awful. Some lesbians, particularly the extremists (Radical feminists and the like) claim intersex people, especially intersex women, are threatening them/oppressive because they think they're the same as predatory MTFs. I've seen horrible things said about women with Swyer syndrome (Basically when someone is XY, appears normally female at birth, is raised as female but then fails to menstruate at puberty) saying that they are basically just men "pretending to be women" to win sports or to perv on women, but that's far from the truth. Those women are raised as female and when they are diagnosed as XY they're usually still given estrogen and considered female anyway. It's so much different from being a non intersex normal male who "decides to become female" as an adult. I've also seen them claim that sex is determined by chromosomes alone, even in intersex people, so someone with two X chromosomes (including XXY males, who are always male, and its never really up for debate) is always female etc. or outright denying that severe intersex conditions exist and every intersex person is a normal, healthy, masculine male or feminine female.

Gay men have time and time again expressed discrimination against feminine males, which includes intersex males, viewing them as inferior, sex objects etc. That or they consider them to be stereotypes or "not man enough." I've been told by other men that I'm not actually gay because I don't qualify as a man and if I'm not a masculine male who likes sex with other manly men than I'm not homosexual at all.

Bi guys will often say that it's not actually gay to me with someone like me because we don't count as male. Or they might go the opposite - some bi trans(?) chasers are after hermaphrodites or "cunt boys" (Basically ftm or a "natural born male with a vagina") which dont exist and have approached me because they think that's what I am. And then of course they claim that these fictional "cunt boys" are not women therefore it's still gay.

And both men and women, trans and not trans, have harassed me for nudes for "medical curiosity" or because they think I'm some kind of rare and special IRL herm.

Basically TQ are the biggest perpetrators of misinformation, but other people choose to blindly believe this information, or even deny the REAL information and continue to think intersex = third sex anyway. So everyone else is just as guilty for being a dick, just because TQ were the ones to associate intersex as an "identity" doesn't make LGB any less ignorant to continue being hurtful.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 8 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

Everyone will become pansexual?

[–]davids877Straight Male Man 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Isn't that just a fetish for kitchen items?

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Trump is a pathological liar whose ineptitude is directly responsible for the death of thousands of Americans, not to mention the senators and other people who have directly enabled him even after his impeachment. This is way more problematic than trans issues, and staying with the Republicans currently absolutely was never a realistic idea.

What we ultimately want and should fight for is progressive representation, but that also has strong women's rights activism. The problem is that the current election system does not allow for a range of voices to be properly heard and taken seriously, and is mathematically shown to lead to 2 major parties regularly dominating the election. Ideally, a grassroots push to Approval or Score Voting is what we need so that Plurality/First Past The Post voting can be eliminated entirely, and so that multiple similar parties are able to run in elections without hurting each others' chances (any system that allows for "spoiler" parties is a broken system).

Frankly, the Democrats are stupid not to be campaigning for election reform at this point because all that's going to happen in a few years is the Republicans may well beat Biden again in 4 or 8 years. If the Democrats really care about having their values represented effectively and having the best possible leaders for the country, they'd push for a better election system overall as any election reform would dramatically reduce the power and dominating influence of the Republican party.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Trump is a pathological liar whose ineptitude is directly responsible for the death of thousands of Americans, not to mention the senators and other people who have directly enabled him even after his impeachment. This is way more problematic than trans issues, and staying with the Republicans currently absolutely was never a realistic idea.

Thank you. I agree and people suggesting that "L/G/B people who supported Biden over Trump are self-hating or idiots who supported TQ" are completely lacking in perspective. That is unlikely to be discussed much on a sub that is focused on dropping the T from LGB; but it's part of the truth and is worth acknowledging. Homosexual/bisexual people are not and should not have to be one homogeneous voting block, and frankly some issues are more immediately harmful to me than the trans debate-- like medical costs and coronavirus policy, to name just two...

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You misspelled "Joe Biden."

[–]DifferentAirGC 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If it happens, I can only hope everyone will realize how insane TRAs are, then in 4 years they will vote for someone who is against this bullshit, instead of re-electing Biden.

[–]Archie 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The best course of action would be that democrats themselves stop pushing for that bullshit, so we can vote for someone that is sane both on that issue and every other issue.

[–]DifferentAirGC 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It could be a Democrat other than Biden

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Salty, I agree (even as an American who voted for Biden) that there's legit cause for apprehension here; however, let's not lose sight of the fact that there's also some cause for hope.

While much of what Biden says about LGB issues (and everything he says about "trans") certainly does unnerve me, he's no frothing-at-the-mouth ultra-leftist or SJW. Quite the contrary, in fact. As far as I can tell, Biden is still what he originally was: an early-1970s-style, moderately-liberal Democrat. One who worked well with "Dixiecrats" (the pro-segregation Southern Dems who, to us, look-- and indeed, soon officially became-- Republican) and GOP senators. Which, frankly, would not be to his credit as far as I'm concerned, under ordinary circumstances... but now? Actually seems like a plus.

Further, Biden has always been much more of a practical, nuts-and-bolts-type politician than an ideologue. He's also shown some noteworthy aptitude for listening, admitting mistakes, and changing course as a result.

But why all this trans-cheerleading from Biden, then? Well, obviously I don't know for sure, but seems like it might be a combination of: 1.] not wanting to miss the boat on gay rights again (and it's now "LGBT", after all!); 2.] a transwoman TRA being his beloved late son's friend and honorary Biden (so unquestioning embrace of "her" may have felt like loyalty to Beau's memory); and 3.] not wanting to be out of touch (especially as a "mature" person; he may feel that any discomfort is just plain stodginess, and something an old fart like him should strive to overcome).

All of which presupposes right-minded people speaking out, and in a way that Biden can't help but hear. Even failing that, though, there's still this: Trump may have finally broken the spell cast by America over the rest of the world. Which previously caused us to be seen as the innovator, the leader; the one everybody looks to for direction. Well... no more. Not after our 45th president has shown how backward, incompetent, and generally clueless we can be. And forced everyone to get along without us... thereby demonstrating that they actually could. Doubt there's any putting THAT genie back in the bottle. But neither should any of us want to.

Really good post, too, BTW: made me think (as you so often do), which resulted in this blend of realism and cautious optimism. I hope that my take here can do the same for you. :)

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, but look at the replies of this thread. Many people have expressed that Kamala Harris - who may well overtake Biden if he dies or falls ill, (some seem to think he might soon?) and, as much as I appreciate that the US has it's first female VP... it seems she is more "neo-liberal" and has expressed support for transgender prisoners, MTFs in bathrooms, and apparently child transition.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah: Harris is of course a less old-fashioned liberal Democrat, and also the California variety (which has been even more painfully-woke than usual in recent years). So her trans-pandering comes as no surprise, sadly.

One thing which she does have in common with Biden is that I've never been a fan of HERS, either. (Didn't much care for Harris during the primaries; looked askance at Biden ever since he treated Anita Hill so shabbily back in 1991.) Another thing they have in common: reasons to think that their public support for genderism may not necessarily be the ride-or-die kind.

First, remember that Harris comes out of a political environment where appearing terminally-woke is required. So all her trans-talk might be nothing more than lip service. (If she was saying the same stuff as a senator from Mississippi or Idaho or someplace equally right-wing, I'd really be worried.)

Second, she made her name as a prosecutor. Which suggests a capacity for hard-nosed reasoning that's diametrically opposed to genderism's "feels not reals" woo-woo (as well as the T's sense of being above the law). Now admittedly, this record could also be motivating at least some of her wokery, as appeasement for liberals (given how much they dislike anyone who sends people to prison). But by the same token, if she gets the message that locking up criminals is actually cool with lefty-types, Harris might drop her whole look-how-ultra-liberal-I-am schtick altogether.

Third, from what I understand, there's one group of liberal Democrats who are absolutely NOT buying this trans-crap: black women. They know what a real civil rights movement looks like-- and that THIS sure as hell ain't it. May well have some influence on Harris, not only for the obvious reason, but also for the one that she shares with Biden: after all, who do they owe their victory to? First and foremost: black women.

So I'm thinking that Harris might be persuaded to spit out the trans Kool-Aid. Especially since she strikes me as a pretty pragmatic sort. People like us need to write letters telling her that we are LGB, liberals/progressives, women, and/or even conservatives who oppose genderism for the soundest of reasons: because it is irrational, and at war with any identity that's based on biological sex. Possibly we LGBs could find allies in black women here.

And if all else fails, well... remember, Salty, that-- thanks to Trump-- the U.S. has lost much of its status. We're no longer seen as a byword for progress, the one that everybody should emulate. So whatever we do now, including this sub's worst fears of Biden and Harris going full TRA from the White House, I doubt that the rest of the world will just blindly follow. They're at least gonna kick the tires first. Or maybe just ignore us altogether.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

If you hate Trump then you hate gays' best hope to stand up to the T menace.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

gays

Yeah I don't think we believe in the same things, buddy. I mean, I dislike Trump himself, but I hate being referred to as a "gay" more.

Also, it's not "us vs them." Gay men have a lot to answer for. It's not just the trans causing issues. The whole LGBT has always been a disaster.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You're trying to talk sense to someone advocating for murder. Their username is "ExecuteHomophobes". Probably a bit of a hopeless endeavor.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

HAHAHA I didn't even notice that. I mean, people who whine about "homophobia" and unironically refer to homosexuals as "gays" in the same breath are crazy enough, but that's next level. I was gonna say troll but honestly... I think a lot of BS on this sub is unfortunately very genuine

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They did it to us first and they still do it as a matter of state policy. If gay men are to be blamed for anything, then let the blame fall where it belongs: on the gay male leftist enablers of the T menace. You have sentenced homosexuality to extinction with this current course of activist rhetoric and political policy.

And don't forget about the Iran deal Trump's predecessor brokered.

[–]ExecuteHomophobes 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You hate Trump and you hate gays. Don't blame all of us for the self-hatred of leftists that they project onto everyone else.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm the one "hating gays" by not using a derogatory term to refer to homosexuals?

Lol okay buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night...

Edit: Just noticed your username. If you wanna kill "homophobes" can you execute me pls? Am too much of a coward to suicide. Thanks in advance.