all 28 comments

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 27 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Firstly, the Mix It Up poster fiasco was entirely, completely, inexcusably stupid on the part of the haters because everything about it that they're complaining about is what the enemy in the game is doing. The evil corporations that you are meant to destroy in the game are the ones doing the objectification. When Thanos wiped out half the universe, did anyone say Marvel was pro-genocide? When Darth Vader blew up Alderaan, did anyone say George Lucas wanted to blow up planets? It's 1000% stupid that they're accusing CDPR of holding beliefs given to the game's bad guys.

Then, the genderless character creator is a bad thing? The fact that you can choose any characteristics without constraint is bad?

And then they whine about pronouns. Do they have any idea how many voice lines in the game needed to be recorded twice or more just to have 2 gender options? The entire amount of money they would make by incuding extra fake gender options for voices would not come close to the cost of making it! There are more people that are boycotting the game for being single player than would actually boycott the game because of pronouns not being good enough.

I do fear for what this may mean for public perception of LGB since the T is having a complete shitshow over this. I only hope it isn't too bad.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh shit, I didn't even realize that. That's even dumber, then.

[–]fuck_reddit 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That is what a normal person thinks. However, I saw it pointed out recently that a lot of the more fringe SJW types like to identify with evil/villains. From that perspective, making the villain actually evil could be upsetting to them. Which, imo, shows how absurd they are.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Which is ironic because identification with the "villian" is generally due to a desire to deviate from the norm or what is "correct." Captain Jack Sparrow comes to mind, as he is by all definitions the villian fighting against the British (who aren't exactly good, but no one seems to be entirely righteous in this franchise) But in this case, Jack is the protagonist, almost and antihero at times. I doubt many SJWs associate with the slave trading trade federation?

And in Cyberpunk 2077, it is the epitome of antiheroes and an irredeemable evil villian. The protagonist is a punk style, transhumanist, time slowing, gun hacking badass that seeks to take down the supposed worst evil of our reality: corporations. Why would any of them suddenly identify with the evil corporations that are basically exactly what they accuse real corporations of being? Especially when they can make any antihero vigilante with whatever characteristics they want?

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It is cyberpunk setting, all cyberpunk books (and, I guess games too) are about modification and computerization of bodies and about megacorporations abusing poor people and their modified bodies. It is settings where technology and body changes are very cheap, but all power and money are held by few megacorporations, so people are powerless and rightless before them. And books in those settings are always criticizing such systems, and showing how ugly they are. All of them are focused on hero surviving in such an ugly world system, or fighting against corporations (like in Cyberpunk 2020 and 2077). No one can anymore do satire or depict horrors of bad systems? Even enemies must be good and smiling? It is literally same tactics that islamic terrorists are doing when someone is criticizing or satirizing their beliefs. Someone already compared gender ideologists with terrorists, and seems they have much more similarities than seen at the first glance.


In cyberpunk universes you can modify body however you want. Often theme of books is "what is being human is? what humanity is?", as you can almost completely change your body or put your mind into robot. You can change your genitals daily in some of the universes, it is not about it at all, it is about not carrying about bodies, as they are just the vessels for your mind, so things like gender dysphoria there not possible in general. The fact that gender ideologists are focusing so much on body and genitals when speaking about universe where those are meeaningless - speaks volumes about them.

CDPR game

I've heard that one male NPC was purely gay and only would date you if you have male voice, body and genitals, and one NPC was purely lesbian and would date you if you have female voice, body and genitals.

I hope they did not changed that from gender ideologicsts pressure to include mixed characteristics to the dating pool of those characters, and those characters stayed completely homosexual.

as other games have handled it in the past?

I think in Mass Effect trilogy some characters are heterosexual and some bisexual, no completely homosexual characters, but I've heard in Cyberpunk 2077 were at least two homosexual characters, but I don't know if it staying that way. And I've heard those characters are very popular among players, so the could be changed to be bisexual, to please more audience, I just hope they weren't. I think those characters were mechanic woman and business man in suite, but I can be wrong, I only saw that in news articles when they were appearing with LGBT tags.

I don't know how to mirror or avoid giving articles "clicks" if you're concerned about that, but I have an ad blocker so they won't be getting money from that at least.

On Gender Critical it is often used

Anyway, he/she goes on to say, in an unnecessarily weird way, that the problem is "it's sexualizing trans people and making them out to be deviant and implying that trans people are only good for sexualization or discrimination."

At the same time they are praising women sex workers and prostitution, but seems it is "only good for cis women". And for "trans women" it is something bad? If transwomen are women, and for women sex work is good, then what their problem? Or does they not believe that TWAW or that sex work is good?

"These characters were white and that was bad, so then they changed them to black but that's also bad because they're stereotypes."

Author of this universe is black man, who suffered racism. By interviews I've found, it is clear that he was working very strongly with CDPR on story to this game and on characters, most characters were already shown in previous works of this author, so CDPR not that much added of their own.

This reviewer is middle class white man and is blaming black person of depicting people of color wrong? Seriously?

Edit: I've searched internet and found that lesbian character, and seems she is lesbian, her name is Judy Alvarez. I haven't seen so far if she will date "woman with penis", but seems like not, just because they have intimate animations of good quality, and that will take extra work to make additional ones. However, I haven't found anything about gay man option, only found few men are bisexual options. Most reviews and info I've found is made by straight men or "transbians" (straight males too), few were made by straight women. I will not be surprised if there will be only lesbian option, but not gay option, majority of buyers of game are white straight men, and among them only lesbianism is accepted as pornhub tags popularity showing. I just hope there will be fully gay male romance, if there is - maybe I will even buy this game if my old computer can run it, I am not a gamer, but I really love cyberpunk universes.

[–]sleepless-dreamer 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In Mass Effect 3, there are two romanceable characters who are exclusively gay and lesbian. I think there are one or two in Dragon Age Inquisition as well.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is great, I don't know much about 3rd part, only read about series in general some years ago. Then there is a hope for Cyberpunk 2077, but it will be harder, as there can be "woman with penis", so it depends on how CDPR and author of the universe are seeing it. They are more conservative and from Poland, so most likely they will have normal homosexuality (in most conservative countries I know, transwomen are seen as gay men and transmen are seen as lesbian women, and not seen as something different).

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The "archive" links never work for me. I don't know if it's a regional thing or what, but I don't think I've ever been able to access one of those pages for at least a few years now.

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is why you never even try to cater to the woke. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

That aside, many people see the difference between LGB and TQ+BS. If they don't at first, we have plenty of receipts of them attacking us dirty "cis faggots" to show off just how mutual the disgust is. The more stuff trickles into the news, the more people are gonna see the real landscape.

The thing is, and it's an ugly truth; the TQ+BS are the ones constantly attacking people for not being woke enough. People are going to be fed up, and they're going to end up looking for a reason to hit back. The fact that they've marginalized and alienated homosexuals and bisexuals is already starting to be seen as the first reason to start yelling back and getting these fuckers to shut up.

True blue homophobes exist, but the people that are just getting to be fed up with the authoritarian movement telling them what they can and can't say, what they can and can't watch, what they can and can't feel, etc. are very likely to not only realize that we've been suffering the same thing for years now, but find camaraderie in that.

What I'm saying at the end of the day is that I think there's cause for optimism that the TQ+BS crowd will be going down alone, and the rest of us will be fine.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm not so certain, especially when you have gay "influencers" crying "homophobia" over stupid things as well, as well as a large portion of gay men and lesbians still supporting trans ideology. Plus it was "LGBT" for a long time...

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Social media and Hollywood doesn't really reflect the views of the real world. It reflects the view of a (in the grand scheme of things) small subset of people who professionally bitch and whine on the internet for ad clicks, and those without lives of their own who latch onto them. Outside of places like the US and UK in particular you can see the night and day difference between the social climate of social media and the real world.

People have been terrified into thinking that social media reflects the real course of society because the TRAs and other such ideologies have convinced themselves that it does. But it really doesn't. It's just an echochamber with one point of view, with an age range that skews very low.

[–]MyLongestJourney 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ever heard of the term "purity spiral"? This,in addition to the fact that the woke crowd is in constant need of a cause to fight for.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same thing keeps happening over and over; you give an inch, and they take a mile.

Absolutely nothing will completely satisfy a group of people who've been taught that their reality denialism is empowering and special.

[–]LilianH 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is the updated review from that site written by that transwoman who is on the feminist frequency podcast.

Kotaku also had a trans man review the game so I guess they are going all out to prove "transphobia" in the woke gaming press.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Polygon are very woke, my lesbian friend was giving me reviews of lesbian games or games with lesbians by them, and in zero cases they wrote word "lesbian". If their reviewer is transwoman, most likely "lesbian transwoman", then I see the reason why.

That article is very weird, they have no idea about how cyberpunk universes work, and they are focusing way too much on genitals and "trans representation". People in cyberpunk are transhuman, not transgender, so all those gender problems have no meaning there, more question is after what amount of cybernetics in brain and body you are stopping to be a human.

[–]votkriscan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just want to put it out there first, CDPR did say that there will be lesbian and gay romance options in the game. They were never against the idea of same-sex romance options.

Now about the Trans matter, this is a bit interesting. Sometime ago, I used to frequent a forum where a particular trans poster would often participate and tend to earn the ire of the posters there by making rather inflammatory posts. I noticed that he rather disliked CDPR and after some more news about the game surfaced, started accusing Cyberpunk 2077 of being prejudiced. I soon realized what the reason was. Apparently the fact that you can even have gentials for your character is the key source of this unhappiness. It seems a bit strange as they tend to be all about "girl-dick" when it comes to "lesbian" stuff. My guess is that they don't want to see the male character have a penis or a vagina. Something about it sets them off.

And this thing here is notable. While Poland is a conservative country, CDPR itself has been aiming to have a more liberal stance for sometime now.

Because of this, I'm rather disliking both the "right" and "left" types of perception. In Cyberpunk 2077, the game allows you to choose pronouns which is gender ideology. There will also be transgenders in the game. So, I'm not understanding why are they disliking Cyberpunk so much. I also dislike the right-wing types calling CDPR the last bastion of gaming and bashing every other game development company for putting in "wimmin" and "lesbian/gay" options, while pretending CDPR did not do just the very same thing and more as I linked above.

Edit: I've taken a look at more romance impressions from recently released articles. There will be lesbian/bi female romance options and they aren't trans. Everyone can have one-night stands with anyone of any gender (male/female). Other full romances includes everyone else, Gay male, straight male/female.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hope she will be just normal lesbian. I am fine with bisexual women, as I will not be playing as man or trans, but I'd love some representation in such huge game.

[–]SailorMoon2020 3 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 7 fun -  (6 children)

The more I read about this game, the more I'm deciding to just watch a lesbian walk through on YT. I honestly don't want to work to have sex with characters. Not only you have to whoo them, but they actually have their own mind and can form their own conclusion to give consent or not. That's stupid in a video game. If I want that, I'd go out in the real world. I only wanted this game was because of the same sex options. We'll see. I rather just walk around the world and hook up. I'll wait for reviews in regards to this situation. The game comes out tomorrow, I think, right?

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not only you have to whoo them, but they actually have their own mind and can form their own conclusion to give consent or not.

This part sounds good. Don't be a prick to them or act like a creep, maybe if more like this will be added in games - youth will honor consent much more and will not ignore it completely.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. Good old consent.

[–]SailorMoon2020 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, it's good for children. As adults, I rather turn that off. I wanna have fun not work when playing video games. It reminds me of that one porn I watched of these two Czech women.

They picked up a woman on the road who was hitchhiking to the beach. They had sex with her in the car then when they got to the beach, the two women went off into the woods and then did a whole PSA on how they should stop picking up random women on the street...

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A lot of grown up men are forgetting about it as well. And it is pretty big problem. So one more reminder will not be hurtful in any case. It is not porn game, after all, but sim-RPG.

[–]SailorMoon2020 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's also not an education game. You make good points still, Zozo.

[–]CuntWorshiperWomenholic full time | vagina fetishist part-time 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, it’s too much in sexual objectification of women. I like myself some naked women but that is just too fucking much.

[–]marmorsymphata 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I mean have you looked at the poster? It's fucking nasty. This isn't really a hard topic to grasp.

If women were historically just not a thing at all in video games, and then a big new one came about that hyped up the idea that they were going to finally add women for months, and then it came out and it was..... this plastic surgery addict disaster, you bet I'd be pissed.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That is what happened to women in games long time ago, actually.

[–]marmorsymphata 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's kind of the point

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All good observations, OP. Yeah, there's just no pleasing the genderists, is there? And I think that I know why.

It's due to the basic contradiction in "trans" identity. That they define themselves as being both literally the opposite sex (TWAW after all)... and "trans". Simultaneously.

So where does this double-bind leave anyone trying to depict a "trans" character? Can't just show them as they actually are-- men attempting to "pass" as women and vice-versa-- because this denies that they're "really" the sex with which they "identify". But portrayals consistent with TWAW/TMAM are equally unacceptable, since then you have "trans" characters being represented as simply... "cis"! Oh noes! Mustn't commit the cardinal sin of "appropriation" after all! But the only other possibility is a combo of these "cis" and "trans" approaches-- going the hermaphrodite route, as CDPR did here with its "Mix It Up" promotion... and of course that earns a big fat REEEEE from TRAs as well.

In other words, any "trans" representation is doomed to be denounced by genderists as "transphobic". So, where game designers and other would-be creators of such characters are concerned, to quote the 1983 film WarGames: "The only winning move is not to play."