all 4 comments

[–]LilianH 32 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The key to understand trans activists is to realise that almost everything they say is either a lie, an exaggeration, or a projection and it usually contradicts something else they'll claim later. You can't understand them because what they are saying will change by tomorrow and will be transphobic by next week.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thread 8: The reason why they're so touchy about pronouns is that their entire identity depends on how others perceive them; it's all about external validation, rather than internal. They don't like the idea of someone calling them he or she behind their back, so they enforce it and get others on the bandwagon too. They literally want to police people talking about them when they're not even present.

[–]EzukiRaen 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thread 1: I wasn't expecting it to go in that direction. I haven't seen too much about transwomen trying to get with straight men but, I could see that happening. However, what I've seen the most of is transwomen pushing their way into lesbian spaces.

Thread 2: I don't think it's a violation of a person's sexual orientation per se, moreso, it's a violation of a person's expectations within that relationship. In this particular scenario, technically, the transman is still a female so, it would still be a homosexual relationship; although, it may be preceived as straight, assuming the transman passes to look like a man. The issue here is that the transman would want to be refered to as a man and treated like a man. No lesbian wants to be in a relationship with a man or someone who preceives themself as a man. I also think there's a distinction to be made here between lesbians who may have pretended to be men in the past or else they would have been attacked, harrassed, shunned by society, or even killed, vs somene who legitimately thinks they're a man. The former is still well aware that they are a woman, whereas, the latter completely rejects womanhood.

It's fine if someone is a transman but, you can't expect that relationship to last. This would be a dramatic change to the dynamics of the relationship and not one that most people would be comfortable with. For instance, the transman would want to start saying that they're in a straight relationship; the lesbian would have to either go along with it and start calling herself straight or bi to accommodate her trans partner or she would have to say no, keep calling herself a lesbian, and leave the relationship. A good parallel to this is a lesbian or gay man marrying a straight person and then later on in life coming out as gay/lesbian. The straight person should be allowed to leave that relationship without being called homophobic. Just the same as the lesbian of this scenario who should be allowed to leave the relationship without being called transphobic.

Thread 3: A transman who doesn't take T (assuming they can afford it) doesn't make sense to me. If you're feeling dysphoria so strongly that you want to change the way society sees and treats you, why wouldn't you use one of the only things that could help you lessen that dysphoria? As for non-binary, that makes even less sense to me. I usually stay away from it because there's too much mental gymnastics that have to be done. The general conclusion I've come to is that if non-binary people exist then transmen/transwomen cannot exist and vice versa. Only one is able to exist or nothing makes sense. Eg. For transmen and transwomen the whole point is that they want to be the opposite sex. That's not possible in the real world so they do whatever they can to get as close to that as possible. For non-binary people, they're supposed to be transpeople who transfer from one sex to nothing. How can a person be nothing? How can a person feel dysphoria to be nothing? That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think nb-phobia is a real thing but, that's also because I don't think nb is a real thing.

Thread 4: False. The statement "transwomen pioneered the way for the LGBT movement" is decidedly untrue. I see stuff like this a lot too and it's so confusing and hard to find facts. The big one is Marsha P Johnson. I've read so many articles that say "she has been quoted saying that she's a man" or "Marsha was her drag name" so why is everyone refering to this man as a "she" and why are they calling a drag queen an transwoman? I kept trying to find anything where he explicitly stated "I am a woman" or "I am a transwoman" to justify why his history and who he was was being so blatantly disrespected and modified. I couldn't find anything and eventually just thought, "maybe she said something off the record or on her deathbed," and left it alone. Until today.

Someone posted a link to a video called "A Fun Friendly Chat with Fred Sargent" and I highly reccomend watching it. It answered my Masha questions and gave a lot more insights into how things actually were back then.

Thread 5: That is homophobic. Gay men don't need anyone to help them like vagina. The point of being a gay man is that they don't like it or want anything to do with it. It sounds to me like this person is in favour of conversion therapy.

Thread 6: It took me a little while but, I think that this person was saying a transman might be a lesbian who is taking testosterone and the testosterone is making the lesbian feel attraction to men. And so, the transman would then try to find and date homosexual men.

The second part is nonsense. They're saying a lesbian who takes testosterone will begin to think like a gay man. Or, in other words, a lesbian who takes testosterone will then become attracted to men i.e. become a straight woman. "That doesn't change what we are" yes it does. That is a huge difference. The trans aspect aside, if a homosexual woman was able to become a heterosexual woman simply by taking testosterone, where are the studies about "successful conversion therapy" that's able to "change/fix" a woman's sexual orientation.

Thread 7: A gay man dating a transman would not be a homsexual relationship, it would be a heterosexual one. Assuming the transman is able to pass as a man, society would preceive them to be a gay couple and would treat them as such. That still would not make it a gay relationship. I think you're right in that a gay man who dates a transman would be bi to a very limited extent.

Thread 8: I understand getting upset if someone misgenders you on purpose to intentionally hurt your feelings. However,  calling someone "he" or "she" is literally based off of our perception of the person we are addressing. If you see someone as a male or female, you're going to address them as such unless/until you're corrected otherwise. 99% of the time the assumption being made is correct so, why should we change what has a very good track record of working?

Another thing a lot of trans activists do is ask "Why do you care so much about a person's pronouns/how they identify"? And the thing is, I don't. I could not care any less about what people call themselves or how they live their lives which is why I'm so against gender ideology. Most of the time when people use pronouns, the person in question isn't even there so, why does it matter? Everyone gets misgendered at some point in their lives and it's almost always by mistake. I don't see the purpose of getting angry at honest, harmless mistakes.

Thread 9: I don't understand the fascination people have with only listening to things if it's being said by people who belong to that group. Sure, people who are a part of certain groups may have more insight into the issues they face but, they aren't the only one's who are allowed to talk about these things. It's like if you exclusively follow trans people for trans issues, black people for black issues, women for women's issues, etc. That's how echo chambers and hiveminds are created. I follow/listen to people who's ideas I find interesting and make sense to me regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, being trans, etc. I think intellectual diversity should be valued so much more than diversity of unchangable characteristics via happenstance of birth.

Thread 10: "Trans-erasure"? From my understanding, being trans is a very recent phenomenon. How can you erase something that's only just recently started to exist? If anything homosexual erasure is what's actually happening. Historical lesbian and gay figures like Stormé and Marsha are being re-written as transpeople. A lot of young lesbians now adays are "transmen who have no intention or desire to take testosterone or get a sex change operation" or just flat out refusing to call themselves lesbian because "it's a dirty word". Trans people have the support of most people in the west both online and in the real world as well as the support of most media outlets. Trans people have free reign to disrespect everyone elses sexual orientation and will label you "transphobic" if you disagree with them or say you wouldn't date a trans person. How exactly are trans people being erased?

Thread 11: Again, pronouns are all about an individuals preception of the people around them. No one pays attention to the pronouns they use to address someone. They use whatever their brain tells them is the most appropriate to use. For the most part, if someone tells me they're trans and wants me to address them as he or she, fine whatever. But I have my limits. I'm not going to call someone any of these neo pronouns because I can't be bothered to learn however many there are right now (I think there are about 50 or so). I also won't call someone who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger a "she". I will try to be respectful but, my brain will keep saying "that's a he, that's a he". There's not much I can do about that.

This was long but it was also fun to go through and think about. Thank you for the post.

[–]zephyranthes 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Someone said lesbians on T begin to find men attractive because the T makes their homo female brain think like a homo male... I don't understand that tweet at all, does anyone know what they mean?

It's not impossible. Remember that there are no true labels, only facts. A woman who previously said she was a lesbian goes on testosterone and starts dating men. Why? Because she's a fetishist who chose body modification over her relationship with a woman or a better chance of attracting women. Testosterone increases sex drive. She wants to have her fetish validated and goes to the subdemographic who would famously screw anything that moves (desperate low-status straight men). Because few people want a dumpy potato with a royal flush of personality disorders in their household, these relationships are as impermanent as those of cruising gay men.