all 32 comments

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 39 insightful - 3 fun39 insightful - 2 fun40 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Only to have about 3 FTMs jump in telling me that they know what it's like or even that they have had it WORSE because they're "trans femboys" and how they wish society would see that their breasts and vags are "male."

Jesus, the narcissism. "It's all about me, me, me, all the freaking time". Not to mention absolute lunatics for wanting society to see female organs as "male". I have no words really.

And no, you're definitely not the wrong. In fact, what you're feeling right now is what many women lately have been feeling with MTF appropriation of our spaces and language policing. How come YOU, a male, get to be called woman and WE, actual women, have to call ourselves, menstruators, uterus havers?!?!?! And yes, as a lesbian, we sometimes feel exactly that you feel. I don't go to the horrible sub actuallesbians of course, but I've seen several times MTF's claiming to know "exactly what it's like to be discriminated against AS A LESBIAN, and that he knows exactly what the lesbian is talking about" and I'm like bitch, no you don't. You do not fucking do. Your attraction towards females was NEVER "problematic" by society and just because you have AGP and think "lesbians are so cute UWU", "I love titties UWU" and decide at god knows what age go into "girl mode tee hee" it doesn't make you understand AT ALL what lesbians go through. You're just a creepy perverted fetishistc male who should leave lesbians the f*ck alone. At least "normal" straight males understand logic jeez.

So yeah, this ended up to be also quite a rant, but simply to say that no, you're totally not wrong and that many of us, L G or B or even women in general have been feeling something similar.

[–]zephyranthes 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Am I in the wrong for feeling like my male experience is being "appropriated" here?

No, what they're doing is offensive and slimy, especially given the obvious sexual component to them fetishizing boyhood.

But I don't see how this isn't exactly the same as what MTFs do to women.

It's exactly the same as what MTFs do to women.

I'm kind of expecting to be told that I'm not allowed to feel hurt because women have it worse in society and what MTFs do to them is therefore "worse."

I won't blame a woman who pretends to be a real man to get away from sex-based oppression - not to claim manhood, not to talk over men, not to invade male spaces (especially gay male spaces!), but to do something both men and women should be able to do in a fair world.

However, it's not what these women are doing -- they don't hide the fact they're female (FTM, so female) but claim special insight into the male experience for no purpose other than degrading real men. This will never be not offensive.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are not wrong. It is a cult. They are collectively delusional.

And that sounds like a difficult group to participate in right now, unless you can limit or eliminate your exposure to the cult members somehow.

[–]HelloMomo 22 insightful - 6 fun22 insightful - 5 fun23 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

This phrase is something of a tumblr idiom, so I feel a bit odd saying it here, but... you're right and you should say it.

[–]8bitgay 23 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

when me or other exclusively same sex attracted people talk about our sexualities, they don't accuse us of "transphobia" and seem to be fine with it.

Are there cis "gay" men in the group who date transmen? If there aren't, that explains things. For them it's more important to be "one of the boys". They know that if they excluded you guys they wouldn't have any cis gay man left, and with no cis gay men there would be no group to appropriate.

The idea of non-passing mothers identifying as boys reminds me of yaoi fangirls. People often try to outwoke each other on the internet. And these fangirls often are accused of fetishizing gay men. So the obvious solution for them is to claim they were actually gay men all the time.

I'm not sure if I agree that yaoi fangirls actually fetishize gay men. But I definitely think cis fangirls are more tolerable than the fangirls that claim to be gay men.

Only to have about 3 FTMs jump in telling me that they know what it's like or even that they have had it WORSE because they're "trans femboys" and how they wish society would see that their breasts and vags are "male."

Ugh. Virtual hug, dude. It really reminds me of when black people talk about a racist experience they suffered and then a white person goes to say "I can totally relate, I also went through [minor inconvenience]". It really shocks me that so many people can see the issue when a white person does that, but they can't realize the issue when a trans "gay"/"lesbian" does the same with our communities.

I worry incessantly about being that unlikable stereotypical gay guy that nobody likes.

I guess talking about these issues can lead to the fear of sounding bitter. But hey, internet's current hobby is pointing out how everything is problematic. You aren't unlikable for pointing out that actually problematic things are problematic!

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Nope, for starters there is a clear unbalance between female and male users (going by biological sex, not gender identity. If going by gender identity more than half "identify" as male or nonbinary) and most of the other male users are straight or bi, I honestly think I might be the only active homosexual male, but I'm not 100% sure.

I think it is yaoi fetishism, especially seeing how they talk about homosexuality, it's like they view "gayness" as an aesthetic or fashion rather than anything else. I could look past it if they were young, but this is an 18+ server with a lot of users above 20 or even 30. It's very strange to see an adult women with children unironically claim to be a "trans boy" without making any effort to even "transition", and for the sake of her kids & everyone else in real life, I hope it's just an internet attention seeking thing and she doesn't make her family refer to her as a "he" :(

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is strange to see such among women, I saw such only among men before, with whole group of "trans widows" created because of this problem with married men with kids after 30-40 transitioning to become "transgirls" and "translesbians" (Eddie Izzard was 58 when did this). Interesting to see, that some women are affected by this crazy movement too in similar way.

[–]reluctant_commenter 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

But for some reason, this person is capable of acting normal almost all of the time, then randomly dips into nonsense. It's more jarring than a TRA who is combative and zany consistently, somehow.

I've known people like this and I completely agree, it's jarring.

it feels like every time I talk about my personal struggles that directly relate to being a male (and some more personal, specific stuff I won't mention) one of them jumps in and tries to "relate" (read: steer the topic towards them) with being trans. And I just find that really hurtful.

I used to be friends with a male-to-female trans person who would do this to me and it's presumptuous as fuck. I would feel offended, too.

It's insulting and actually offensive to be told that some women who are internet RPing as anime boys for the "aesthetic" know what I'm going through.

I completely agree, and I find it insulting when men do the same for "anime girls".

But I don't see how this isn't exactly the same as what MTFs do to women.

Yeah it is the same. I am highly suspicious of anyone who suggests that women are incapable of being creepy or predatory the way that trans-identified males can, because they absolutely can be (and in fact, that's a type of sexism called the "women are wonderful" effect). Now, to be clear, trans-id males often get away with more extreme acts of violence and are more successful at doing so because they have the advantage of more resources, more societal support, and male socialization. However, it's still wrong in the same way that what trans-id females do, is wrong. Sorry to hear you're dealing with that bullshit as well.

She was even saying how she likes having breasts and a vagina as a boy and stuff like that, it was fucking strange. And other FTMs chimed in to agree.

s/itsafetish

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Ovarit one is more alive: https://ovarit.com/o/ItsAFetish/hot same with /o/Radfemmery and /o/TransLogic

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh, wow, it definitely is. Man... is this what will finally get me to bite the bullet and join Ovarit? Lol. I'm not radfem but I'd love to build more awareness of this stuff.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hey, not a radfem either, just another gender skeptic, but can get you an invite if you want.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That would be nice, thank you :) even if just to lurk. Glad I'm not the only one in this boat, lol. I remember we talked about it before.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I am checking it without registration, thought.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh gotcha, good point. I like to vote though, so maybe I will. I'll lurk first.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeaaah I'm not too thrilled about the prospect of joining a site that vehemently hates any and all males, tbh. The original /r/itsafetish was a man-hating dumpster fire too, I mean, I appreciated it from the beginning but then it started to get really wack.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sorry that you have to deal with this nonsense...That sounds draining and frustrating having to deal with the TQ bints.

Are most/all of them very into...the..."queer" culture? I ask because I worked at a job like that for a YEAR and it exhausted me CONSTANTLY hearing with their "super PC/liberal" politics in the work group chat---completely inappropriate but the bosses promoted it too. I'm about to leave that job here soon, I found something else with better pay and benefits, and maybe I'll actually get paid on time instead of waiting a week for my paycheck.

I know a girl similar to what you described who's "nice" but can be rude. She flipped out on me the other day about gender pronouns and said it was NO laughing matter when I mentioned customers mistakenly call me a "sir" and I laugh it off...She's just...a buffoon. But then she questioned it afterwards wondering if pronouns are all that important, and mentioned "But the internet said...". The internet says many things girlie. She's also creepy/clingy (ex. wanting to show up at my place uninvited because she was "worried" about me) so...I was being friendly just in case she went crazy. I'm moving soon-ish though and planning on changing phone#s.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if it gives you grief every time you're there...maybe it's not worth it. Sorry for being a kibbitzer, I just dealt with an overload of TQ+ hogwash at work and it felt like talking to redditors but in real life, super left leaning, TQ+, political, argumentive, terrible jokes, authoritative/absolute, "deep" thinkers, etc. I am done. Completely.

My apologies for the ramble, just know you're NOT wrong for feeling the way you do. They're the ones being little entitled poopbutts trying to make everything about themselves. They're ridiculous, not you.

edit: word

[–]reluctant_commenter 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm moving soon-ish though and planning on changing phone#s.

Yeah, that sounds like a wise move, geez. Some coworker!

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We became "best friends" in her eyes because we grew up in a dysfunctional family and similar environment. That's literally all. We hardly have the same interests and it's difficult to hold an interesting conversation with her.

Similar to the questions I ask often in saidit, she'll either a) get frustrated, upset and stop talking(ex. talking about transing kids), b) get insultive or c) Have dull answers(ex. "What are your thoughts on feminism?" and she'll say "Idk, lol it's good?").

The only interests in common we have is...videogames but (most) my coworkers play the same boring FPS game and I want to play other stuff. They hate RPGs, strategy, puzzles, RTS, etc. Only shooter games they like to play.

Only one coworker I like and get along with well. I think he's a gender skeptic gay man? We have similarities, but I don't want to push him too far and ask(He's old school "LGBT" rights minus anything infront of the "T", I think...Unless he's just saying that like I do for cover up lol). He's very moderate/centered and we have quite a bit in common and can talk about almost everything under the sun.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, very much so. In fact I carelessly once let it slip that I hate being called "queer" or hearing the phrase "queer people" and several of them jumped in with "oops oof I am admittedly guilty of that". I've also seen a lot of people call themselves "queer" but fewer people use actual terms like bisexual or gay.

Not all of them are super PC, however some are, and the ones that are tend to be vocal, and start shit over stupid things like thinking certain words are "ableist slurs" when they're not and never have been. Oh, and fetishizing neurological problems & pretending to have autism/ADHD/similar because it's "quirky" is a thing, too.

[–]Constantine 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just because men aren’t a group that has been historically oppressed on a wide scale like women have doesn’t mean that manhood isn’t a unique experience, and that members of that group shouldn’t get to have their own language and spaces to discuss that unique experience and challenges they face because of it.

I think that because of the historical oppression of women, what’s happening to their spaces because of these people is meaningful in a slightly different way, but that in no way means that what’s happening to you isn’t also insidious. You have every right to feel violated and as if your experience is being trivialized, because that’s exactly what’s happening.

Edit to add that in this comment I’m talking about male spaces in general. I would argue that the trans invasion of specifically gay male spaces is insidious in much the same way as the invasion of women’s spaces because of the oppression component. Regardless, the point still stands that this is a violation whether the group in question experiences oppression or not.

[–]bopomofodojo 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, you're not wrong.

For example recently I posted about how it sucks growing up being assumed to be the "gay one" because you don't fit masculinity, how I was bullied for it and how turning out to be actually gay was very hard for me, and even TODAY I still feel ashamed of my femininity as an adult.

I'm a straight GNC male, but this bit, it resonates, man. I get you, even though I'm attracted to women. I know that experience.

These narcissists, though? Fucking hell. Of course they don't. They're female. The grew up as women. Yes, that has its own set of issues. But they're not your issues.

This is the kind of shit that pushed me towards the GC movement. As a long-time gay ally (having lots of gay male friends, spending a lot of time with them) what bugged me was actually this bit. The appropriation, the woque homophobia. And I read how they spoke about women, especially lesbians, and it set me off even more. How is this shit progressive?

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

If I were you (and I can be fairly petty so maybe just laugh at this instead of actually doing it), I would screenshot the private conversations where these women are saying they wouldn't date other transmen and post them to the group chat, wait 24 hours for the drama to ensue, and then leave.

The more mature thing would be to say something every time one of them crosses the line and claims space over your experiences. There's no need to be mean (I know you said you are paranoid about coming across as a "stereotypical gay guy that nobody likes"), but you can be firm. "I don't agree that your experience is similar to mine. I grew up being viewed as a feminine man, you grew up as a woman and didn't start to transition until you were 30. We come from very different places." That being said, they would probably take and firmness or boundaries as you "being a stereotype," so you have to ask yourself who it is you would rather be as a person- a man with boundaries or a doormat.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm in a creative/fandom group online (I won't say what it is exactly, just to be safe) that I talk to multiple times a day. It's quite active and there's a lot of people in it now, but I'm not even exaggerating when I say that half of the female users are trans or nonbinary identified. It's also very strange because the group's theme has nothing to do with LGBT at all, yet so many of these people make being "queer" or trans their core trait.

It what I've observed for years now in fandoms I've hanged around. Before even peaking I was skeptical of people's identities and deep down I really saw that as a fad for many of them once I started to notice every second account following had something related to LGBT in their bio. It was a statistical impossibility to see so many non-straights and non-cis people. There is nothing particularly "queer" about liking this kind of stuff. The best explanation is just it spreads very well in such places. I recall being in a group chat where 50% of people were identifying as LGBT. Many of them were non-binary (I think I've always found non-binary as the most laughable LGBT identity). Now I'm another chat. All female but one is a trans man, the rest 3 is a some kind of non-binary. One of them realized their non-binarism just because they hated female stereotypes. I wish I was joking. I wish we went back to when being emo was popular because this gender shit is so damaging and regressive.

[–]Eurowoman24 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No you have the right to feel the way you do and It's the same thing, the only caveat is that FTMs don't seem as violent as MTFs. MTFs only threaten women that speak up against them but not men, that's really the only difference (that male violence element).

[–]FediNetizenSuper-semi-bisexual (i.e. straight) 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Lol, come on, you know what the answer to that question is gonna be in this sub

[–]marmorsymphata 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

but please don't mistake that for sympathy with transmedicalists, because they are the worst.

What do you mean by this? Trans people that recognize they're mentally ill and that they don't redefine the sex binary are miles better than tucutes

[–]bopomofodojo 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Both groups are definitely problematic (sorry for the wokeie term, but it fits) but for different reasons. Transmeds think they can rewrite the fabric of their bodies with drugs, surgery, etc. to project a facsimile of the opposite sex. Tucutes think they can rewrite the fabric of society and human experience with language/thought policing, cancel culture, etc. to project a fantasy of the opposite sex. Both are irredeemably toxic movements. The only "trans" that wasn't was the pre-2000's time when being a "gay, boy, transwoman" (to quote Marsha P. Johnson) was not seen as an oxymoron.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not to mention both can influence kids in negative ways but the Transmed approach can cause irreversible physiological damage to developing children in a way that "tucutes" can't.

[–]panderichthys 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Perhaps so, but they still believe they are actually men/women with "different biology" - which completely contradicts the definitions of the two terms. Essentially they engage in doublethink. Miles better than cringey teenagers, but still far from the sanest

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transmedicalists adhere to extremely sexist notions "I'm a woman because I'm attracted to men and want to be submissive to them, therefore I have a female brain", believe in psuedoscience that has been disproven ("brain sex") and are EXTREMELY nasty to people with certain sexual medical conditions.

Also nobody has been a "tucute" since 2015. It was a stupid term taken off by a certain crazy user on Tumblr, who has since been accused of being a "cis woman posing as a trans woman" (??) and "tucute" simply referred to her followers/fans, not non-transmedicalist trans people.

[–]Lizzythelezzo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just want to say I hear you and I think you are completely right to feel like your male experience is being appropriated here. I find this behaviour from trans people disturbing.