Trans rights activists pretend that the only people who oppose their views are radfems.

submitted by reluctant_commenter from self.LGBDropTheT

(Reposting this since Automod caught it thanks to some of the language used in a transwoman's quote.)

One thing struck me in this r/AL post that I posted about the other day: the OP on actuallesbians never mentions that the forum he compares to Nazi Germany is actually a forum of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people-- he refers to it as a "T--F transphobic subreddit":

So yesterday a post of mine got brigaded by T--Fs (it was me talking about a misunderstanding about trans women's bodies) and some T--F decided they were going to post it to their shitty transphobic specific reddit.

I am not here to condemn or support radical feminism. I am only here to observe:

This transwoman is attempting to hide the fact that many LGB people do not support the bigoted, authoritarian transgender takeover of LGB communities.

I think we need to push back on this. Yes, the radical feminist community is against transgender ideology but they are not the only ones. I think it's safe to say many, or even most, of us here on s/LGBDroptheT are not radfems (even though I know there are some people who are in both camps).

There are many LGB people who do not believe in gender identity, and we still exist despite trans activists' success at censoring us on almost all social media platforms. TRAs will try to hide this fact for as long as they can. But the truth will come out eventually.

TRAs realllllly love to pin all their hatred on a very specific group of women... nah, a way bigger proportion of people beyond just radfems doesn't buy your bullshit.

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[–][deleted] 43 insightful - 1 fun43 insightful - 0 fun44 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I said it before, and I say it again. TERF means absolutely nothing. TERF doesn't actually mean radfem. It just means that you believe that sex is part of biology and people experience sexual attraction based on sex.

[–]mvmlego 14 insightful - 7 fun14 insightful - 6 fun15 insightful - 7 fun -  (9 children)

Eh, I think "TERF" means something; it's just regularly misapplied, as many words are these days: "bigot", "transphobic", "racist", "terrorist", etc.

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What the hell does "trans exclusionary" even mean though? What are trans people being excluded from? And why are they entitled to be included in whatever it is?

[–]mvmlego 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

The "trans-exclusionary" in TERF means that the group of people who the radical feminists are advocating on behalf of do not include the (so-called) women who are transgender.

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's only specifically exclusionary of transgender identified males then, not transgender people in general. So I don't see how "trans exclusionary" even makes sense. And why are transgender males entitled to be included in a movement advocating for females anyway?

[–]mvmlego 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

That's only specifically exclusionary of transgender identified males then, not transgender people in general.

It's the primary kind of transgender person that feminists are concerned with, though. Understandably, they're more concerned about whether a small group of non-women gets included with women, which is potentially harmful to all women, than whether a small group of women gets excluded from women, who brought that exclusion upon themselves by identifying as men.

And why are transgender males entitled to be included in a movement advocating for females anyway?

They're not, but the reason that some people appear to disagree with you on that point is that they disagree that the people in question are men.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Indeed, transmen (females) are not excluded from it, so it is not trans exclusionary. Saying it is trans exclusionary means that person saying it is only cares about transwomen (males), so it is sort of misogyny.

[–]GDC 11 insightful - 8 fun11 insightful - 7 fun12 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

You will be silenced by the mtfs, you Alt-right Terf nazi!!!!

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Maybe, but since English has no authority, words and their definitions are determined by how we use them. If "TERF" is more often used as a slur agaisnt lesbians than anything else, then that's the definition. This is why gender has the woke definition in the dictionary, "literally" is defined as meaning the exact opposite of what it actaully should mean, and "irregardless" is being added to the dictionary because people can't say "regardless."

Language is ever changing, so we also have to be or else we'll use words that have been hijacked and altered for nafarious purposes

[–]mvmlego 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

The examples that you cite seem to refute your own account of meaning. If a word's meaning is based solely on the way that it's used, then it's a contradiction to say that a word has been defined as the opposite of what it should mean. EDIT: By your account of meaning, the word "literally" has no proper definition; it's definition is merely whatever the word most-often intended to mean.

Regardless, I'm not naive-enough to believe that the ways that speakers intend their words to be interpreted is completely irrelevant. If a word has been hopelessly co-opted, then I'll stop using it, but I'm not convinced that TERF is one of those. I've heard some feminists actually describe themselves as "TERF", for example.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, if a word changes from being used to mean one thing to meaning the opposite, that's one thing, but when a word has simutaneous antonym definitions, that's another thing. Literally didn't change from meaning literally to meaning metaphorically, it adopted the second definition, so now when someone sees the word, the entire sentence's meaning may be up for debate.

"John literally died!" usually means that John is laughing at the moment, but if this message was sent after John was stabbed, then the sender's intent has been completely lost due to the adding of the second definition.

I haven't seen enough examples of TERF's use in recent years to make a decision on whether it still means one thing or another, but I do know that I do my best to avoid words such as literally because it is more often used to mean the exact opposite of what I would be using it for in my speech.

[–]jjdub7TERF (Trans Exterminating Reactionary Fascist) 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

"TERF" practically means Trans-Exterminating Reactionary Fascist these days, haven't you heard?

/s

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They use different meanings for the R and F now, they have been for a few years. Anything to make sure people don't see how they're slinging slurs.

"Reactionary" and "Fascist" are two of the multiple newer meanings for R and F.

[–]jjdub7TERF (Trans Exterminating Reactionary Fascist) 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hahaha I literally made that up to be facetious, but only because I don't even doubt several TRAs have begun making such hyperbole already for some time

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hate to recommend it, but if you check out r/GenderCynical, you will see the way they remake language and have been for years.

In case you didn't know, they also use FART in place of TERF.

Because they're children (or have the mental capability of toddlers) and think "fart" and/or poop jokes are a real insult. They claim it means "feminist-appropriating radical transphobe", but they literally just made it up to be annoying.

[–]eddyelric 34 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 0 fun35 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Funny, most radfems I've met used to liberal allies who supported trans stuff until it crossed a line. Whether it be censorship of female biology or talking over non-western women talking their non-western lives, every woman had a "peak" moment where they couldn't hold it in anymore.

I strongly believe they go after these women because they're a smaller target and less physically intimating.

[–]fuck_reddit 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This is meant to be a comedic video but he gets people to basically say exactly what you are talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6IetGe0iHc

[–][deleted] 26 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not a radfem (if not even a feminist at all) and I oppose TRA's agenda.

How can they explain that?

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 25 insightful - 4 fun25 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

"You’re a conservative right wing nazi bigot Trump-supporter!"

That’s what they would say about you if you’re not a radfem and you oppose TRAs.

[–]MarkJeffersonRaga Shave 16 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

They'll just fall back on calling you transphobic, racist, and privileged, most likely as white TRAs who themselves grew up spoiled in the upper middle class. But just being or supporting trans adds a lot of weaponized oppression points because of the sky-high suicide rate and frequent mental issues associated with that. Not to mention they fancy themselves as fantasy heroes who deserve deference because of the Legend of Zel- the First Brick.

Old man at Stonewall:

IT'S DANGEROUS TO GO ALONE! TAKE THIS BRICK.

[–]lavender_menace 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you’re gay, they have a shiny new slur especially for you: TEHM!

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Originally, people who were against the viewpoints of TRAs were labelled as being conservative or ignorant. Had it not been for well-known feminists loudly speaking out against transgenderism, then TRAs would be calling their opponents nazis, fascists or Trump supporters by now. However, with prominent feminists being the loudest against the TRAs' manifesto, the focus is on radfems. TRAs are such light-switch brains, seeing everything in black or white, good or evil. You’re either this or that. They need to put you into a category, because they need to be able to predict everybody in order to micromanage people.

[–]ColoredTwice 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Obviously they do, if categories were broad and not strict - their transing would make no sense. So they need stereotypes and black/white categories to exist, as without them - their ideas can't exist.

[–]Seahorse 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TERF is pretty much witch.

It's deliberately aimed at women, because they're a weaker target, and then probably easier to ostracise.

Also, they like to pretend that TERFs are some small portion of the population when in reality it's 99%.

Less intriguing if TERFs are just some obscure corner of women on the internet instead of..... basically everyone lol.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, that's what I commented a few years ago. It's disgusting TRA's hatred towards women.

[–]TiredTrendersSuper-gay 14 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Guess we're radfems now lol ¯\(ツ)/¯

[–]Rosefield 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Tumblr calls you TEHM: Trans exclusionary homosexual men

[–]censorshipment 12 insightful - 7 fun12 insightful - 6 fun13 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

Lol they really overestimate how many radfems there are (on Reddit of all places). There are women calling themselves trans-inclusive radfems on the AskFeminists subreddit where they ban GC (and FDS and PinkPill) radfems. And the GenderDifficult sub has a "TIRFnotTERF" moderator (sub creator) for trans radfems. Lol https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderDifficult/

So they likely have more radfem allies than LGB allies. Btw, is Cathy Brennan a lesbian trans-inclusive radfem? I can't stand her voice, so I don't watch her videos lol https://www.youtube.com/c/CathyBrennan/videos

[–]BEB 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was too late to witness whatever happened between Cathy Brennan and rad fems, but her Tweets (she might be off Twitter now) seemed IMO actively hostile to rad fems.

On a personal level, she irritates me too. Just seems a bit narcissistic.

[–]SnowAssMan 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender identity is actually determined by socialisation.

What they call 'gender identity', what they call 'gender', what they call 'woman', is actually their cross-gender identification, which is determined by self-identification.

Maybe make this distinction. If we adopted their definitions (or lack thereof) for words over the real ones we'd have to stop believing in 'woman' too.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 9 insightful - 7 fun9 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 7 fun -  (4 children)

I mean to be fair, radfems have an awful habit of insisting that anyone who opposes trans stuff is "gender critical" and thus part of their movement (though, hypocritically will turn around and say that men & "undesirable" women can't be radfems/GC even if they try to be) so I can understand why some ignorant people who don't think for themselves, like TRAs, would believe such thing.

[–]BEB 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

In my understanding, gender critical just means that you believe that biological sex is immutable, but also that you reject that there are immutable links between sex-role stereotypes (gender) and biological sex.

Instead, the gender critical believe that each individual should be able to express their personality however they choose, as long as it doesn't infringe on others' rights.

I don't think that GC people think that everyone is GC, just that most people understand that biological sex is not a choice and is immutable, and that there are real harms, especially to women and gay men, in making laws institutionalizing the opposing beliefs inherent in gender ideology.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

gender critical just means that you believe that biological sex is immutable, but also that you reject that there are immutable links between sex-role stereotypes (gender) and biological sex.

I disagree-- I think it also means that you are a part of the GC community. I am not a part of the GC community, therefore I am not gendercritical. Even if I do agree with that community on some things.

I agree with Christians on some things but that does not make me a Christian.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My comment meant that most people share some of the same beliefs on biological sex as people who call themselves "gender critical," not that they ARE part of the group that refers to themselves as "gender critical."

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I agree. I am not GC or a radfem just because I am against transgender ideology.

I responded to BEB but again, it applies-- I have some beliefs in common with Christians. That doesn't necessarily make me a Christian. It does mean that I might agree with Christians in certain situations.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

T activists base almost all of their strategies on manipulating the importance of things. They make sure to belittle some things that are problematic for their image, while blowing out of proportions these that help supporting the victim status. That's why when you link some trans lunatic saying that "being gay is transphobic", they will be there to say "so your entire hate is built around one internet troll?" and when they're linking some transphobic lunatic throwing death threats on the internet, it's suddenly "21th century and the world still hates us!".

What you're describing is the exact same thing, just directed at trans people, to enforce fake feeling of security among their people. Belittling your opponents, claiming it's just a small, vocal miniority, will make sure they will have no doubts about their own agenda and because of that they'll be more obedient.

[–]jjdub7TERF (Trans Exterminating Reactionary Fascist) 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

T--F

Don't censor it, own it: Trans-Exterminating Reactionary Fascist

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I had to censor it in order to get it through Automod. But that's an amusing interpretation, lol.

[–]HelloMomo 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I recently saw "only terfs and conservatives think you can't change your sex" and it made me laugh. Only conservatives (roughly half of all voters) + some liberals as well = more than half of the population.