Discussionfetishization/contempt

submitted by grammaroo from self.LGBDropTheT

i guess im not really sure what fetishization is. i have a simple dictionary definition but why does it evoke contempt? im gay but the first time i've heard of fetishization was in racial dynamics of straight men and women just fetishizing each other racially left and right and through tv and i never understood how it could become toxic but it is. I just assumed it meant they just had a "special" attraction to a race but it couldnt have really been harmful...and it turns out it is?

Why do straight women who read yaio books about gay men have such contempt for them? Why doesnt it inspire compassion?

I understand that when straight men fetishize lesbians, it's not really lesbians because they dont recognize their sexual orientation. they just see 2 pieces of meat and imagine themselves in between them but women seem to fetishize the very idea of a gay male and go into detail of how we're different from straight men. so why doesnt that inspire sympathy and compassion in their attempts to fetishize us? It just turns into sneers, disgust and homophobia. why?

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[–][deleted] 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fetishization commonly goes along with dehumanization. When they stop viewing people as people and just as objects of sexual desire they stop caring about the person.

Straight women just fetishize gay men in a different way than straight men fetishize lesbians. The end result is the same though: dehumanization.

[–]Eurowoman24 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (31 children)

I'm straight but I'll try to answer some of your question. I think that the straight women who fetishize gay men seem to not see them as individuals who simply like dudes. But as a group of inferior,weaker,sensitive,feminine men which they sometimes develop an attraction to. Personally I find that icky on the part of straight women, as long as gay men don't criticize my body or call it disgusting just for being female I think we should be friends and just enjoy our mutual love of dick. ;)

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Not sure why some gay men call women's bodies disgusting? I don't find them disgusting at all, just ... not fascinating. My husband is kind of repulsed by female genitalia in a way that I don't understand, but he's otherwise OK with women as friends.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can understand what it's like to feel repulsed by male bodies, especially the penis, that's the worst for me. So I understand what your husband feels when he sees female bodies. However, I don't think it's OK to make such degrading comments over male bodies, unless I feel I'm being pressured to like them, like it is happening with TRAs. If I feel pressured somehow, I won't have any problem asserting my boundaries and to say penis are very gross to me and it's none of anyone's business who I want to go to bed with.

[–]Eurowoman24 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah I don't know either, like "boobs are disgusting sacks of fat" and so on, is just so hurtfull to say (context: this was in the context of a literature course we were taking). Thankfully those guys are few and far between(i hope?), but it doesn't make me want to be friends with you after that you know?

[–]grammaroo[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

i dont think theyre genuinely disgusted by women and it's "performative". i think it's just a reaction to growing up being forced, by almost suicidal levels of trauma to accept the female body as sexual or something that you're supposed to want. and it's not a society thing, it's a "your mom and dad will leave you and your entire family will abandon you if you dont like boobs and vaginas". It's not tied to the actual human beings but theyre reacting to their parents/family/society. and these type of men resent that lesbians can have a "ewww, dicks" party but gay men are stigmatized for doing the whole "eww boobs" party and just see it as a double standard.

i dont think they have any idea in their heads that it's even offensive or rude, they would just think you'd be like, "yes, i really dont like attraction to women either". there's a cluelessness in what theyre saying.

[–]Eurowoman24 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thanks for replying, and that does make total sense when you put it that way. It's hard to not take it personally of course but thanks for making me aware of this.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thankfully, those types of gay men are rare.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't know anyone who is grossed out by boobs. Usually it's just the vahj.

I have no interest in women but when someone wears a low cut shirt I'm still like O_O... While trying to avoid looking.

[–]Eurowoman24 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

yeah this is a specific person who just was very critical , sorry about the low-cut thing, sometimes that happens unintentionally.

[–]Shales123 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gay men are allowed to be disgusted by naked female bodies. Live and let live. I'm a lesbian and I'm disgusted by naked male bodies. As long as you don't bodyshame anyone out loud, you're allowed to be grossed out. Unless someone tries to pressure me into sex with a man, in which case, I will verbally express how disgusting that is.

[–]Eurowoman24 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I don't think you understood what I meant. I don't care that gay men don't like female bodies, it's the act of bodyshaming women and calling our bodies disgusting out loud when no one has asked you your opinions on our bodies in the first place that I don't think is fair.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is really key. If you talk to these women you’ll quickly notice they consider gay men fundamentally different from other men. Sometimes they think of gay men as inherently more feminine, or softer, or safer than heterosexual men. For other women, they think of gay men as inherently more sexual and masculine, because they can “dominate” another man. It’s one of the two extremes. In either case they don’t believe gay men to be just... normal men.

[–]Eurowoman24 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Are there more ftm tops then bottoms? you might be on to something here as well.

[–]grammaroo[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

ok but if they see them as "weaker, sensitive and feminine men which they develop an attraction to"...then where does the contempt and homophobia come in?

[–]Eurowoman24 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I'm guessing it probably comes in when they get rejected.

[–]nettygay5 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

i find it strange that they'd even be offended and "feel" rejected by someone incapable of even reciprocating anything biologically. I didnt even know women could even feel rejected by gay males. The world's most beautiful women could all be in one room and a gay guy would just see kinship or people to giggle and gossip with if he's feminine. I guess a lot of them dont truly believe in homosexuality or it doesnt really register in their minds? They see it more as a feminine aesthetic?

[–]Eurowoman24 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The first part assumes you're speaking about people comfortable within themselves and level headed. Judging by some of the gender ideologues on twitter... yeah I'd say some don't understand the concrete reality of homosexuality. I think movies portraying only the GBF trope are also to blame.

[–]nettygay5 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

GayBestFriend trope would just affirm homosexual identity as a sexless companion to some main female character. I experienced it and was never sexualized (although lots of groping)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Some straight women really wrap their sense of self-worth up in their ability to attract men. It can be an affront when the non-trivial effort, expectations, and sense of entitlement they put into the endeavor does not pan out. The ability to turn someone down is powerful.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some straight women really wrap their sense of self-worth up in their ability to attract men.

Sadly this is a message that society pushes on women and girls generally so while it’s no surprise that there are many women who think this way, it’s still sad to see, with the added effect of causing women to see other women as natural enemies in this zero sum game.

[–]Virginia_Plain 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think it's soured idealization. Some women are very sold on the idea of gay men, and when gay men don't live up to that ideal, they cannot process it well.

I do think gay men can be misogynist: I've seen it. Some of them can get weirdly handsy with women, and on the other extreme get a little too into talking about how much they don't like vaginas. I dated a guy who started practically spitting across the table at me about how vaginas had "the stench of fish," and...okay dude. I'm not interested in them either, but there are plenty of people who think a dick in their mouth or butt is a big turn-off too.

In other cases, I think the idea of gay men has been sold to people as them being fabulous glitter creatures. I have had women speak to me as if I were a cute animal at the petting zoo when they find out I'm gay. Yass yass gurl, like you would baa baa at a lamb, something like that. There were some funny YouTube sketches back in the day called "Disappointing Gay Best Friend," which were basically about this phenomenon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihBpU7W4xlc

I think the romanticized image of homosexuality has created an unsustainable ideal, and instead of moving towards a healthy, balanced view, there are people who want to tear the whole thing down.

[–]grammaroo[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"tear down" meaning these people lashing out at homosexuals and homosexual rights?

[–]Virginia_Plain 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The comments from that video only prove your point. Half of them are: "Tyler is so cute!!!!" They completely missed the point.

[–]usehername 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do straight women who read yaio books about gay men have such contempt for them?

Jealousy.

women seem to fetishize the very idea of a gay male and go into detail of how we're different from straight men

These yaoi girls do sometimes aggressively pursue gay men, as documented on this sub, but a huge percentage never do because they're too shy and awkward. Even though these types aren't being explicitly rejected, they have an understanding of being implicitly rejected because they're female. They can't handle that rejection.

They desperately want a man like that, but can never have it (there are some straight men out there with the positive qualities they crave, but these women are incels and usually pretty gross, so it's nearly unattainable for them) which breeds resentment. They're just incels who feel rage and hatred after being told no.

edit: I just want to add that my point about some of them not lashing out at actual gay people was that those people make up the toxic communities that the aggressors come from.